Passed on an LCR today

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clayflingythingy

Single-Sixer
Joined
Sep 4, 2007
Messages
360
Went shopping for a new pocket gun today. Came home witth a S&W Centennial 442.

The LCR at the LGS had the wonderful trigger everyone has been raving about. BUT, the gun is just a tad bigger than the 442. Coupled with the speedloader issue, where J frame loaders are not optimal, the fact the LCR is still unproven, Ruger's dismal recent track record with new intros, all combined to make me pass on the LCR.

If a couple of years go by and the LCR hasn't exibited any major flaws I think it will make a dandy belt gun. It was tempting today but I just couldn't make myself break my "buy no first model year" gun rule.

Guess my next Ruger will be the Blawhawk 357!
 

NMCB3

Bearcat
Joined
Nov 6, 2005
Messages
54
What speed loader issue are you talking about? On my LCR the Houge grips don't work well the a speed loader but the Crimson Trace grips work fine, I use the same speed loader that I use for my SP101 ie a 36A. So I guess a grip change solves that problem.

As far as being scared of a new model I can see your point there, but I have a feeling the LCR is and will be a great snubby. Nothing wrong with your S&W though.
 

clayflingythingy

Single-Sixer
Joined
Sep 4, 2007
Messages
360
NM,

There have been reports on this and other forums, as well as written reviews, that the J frame HKS speedloader will bind if the cartridges are inserted very far into the cylinder.
 

mohavesam

Hawkeye
Joined
Jan 4, 2004
Messages
5,847
I still have not seen any "torture test" report or article for the LCR.

Who "speed loads" a belly gun anyway. That is just alot of armchair-tactical BS. I have always been taught that the "speedloader" is your option to RUN away, after five shots, if the threat is still there.

No jury is going to sympathize with someone who stayed around and reloaded.

:shock:
 

DMZ

Bearcat
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
33
I wonder where all those first run, unproven, MK I's, Bearcats, 10/22's, 10/44's, Single Sixes, Black Hawks, Old Army's, and Number 1's, etc. are right now.

And mohavesam, you make a good point about speed loading. If you think you may need more than 5, carry a SR-9.
 

revhigh

Hawkeye
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
5,590
DMZ":1qcueoiu said:
I wonder where all those first run, unproven, MK I's, Bearcats, 10/22's, 10/44's, Single Sixes, Black Hawks, Old Army's, and Number 1's, etc. are right now.

Those models were released when Bill was alive and running the show and Ruger didn't have the 'new release reputation' that they now have after the disastrous P345, LCP, and SR9 releases (oh for three). Ruger is a different company now, although their service is still mostly very good, considering the amount of repairs and recalls they've had to deal with.

You certainly can't fault someone for being cautious with a new Ruger, especially one so revolutionary as the LCR.

REV
 

NMCB3

Bearcat
Joined
Nov 6, 2005
Messages
54
mohavesam":lup2vozu said:
I still have not seen any "torture test" report or article for the LCR.

Who "speedloads" a belly gun anyway. That is just alot of armchair-tactical BS. I have always been taught that the "speed loader" is your option to RUN away, after five shots, if the threat is still there.

No jury is going to sympathize with someone who stayed around and reloaded.

:shock:
Well I speed load my snubbies all the time,you must practice if you wish to become proficient in their use. (So I must be full of tactical BS)

What is tactical BS though is planning on getting into a firefight with only five rounds and thinking running away will solve your problem. lol :lol:

As far as the jury, I`d rather be tried by twelve than carried by six. The last thing I need is to be worrying about what some brainwashed cherry picked jury is going to think about my actions, when the much more pressing issue is defending my life. If I live through the encounter then I`ll worry about the jury.
 

Boge

Single-Sixer
Joined
Jul 2, 2009
Messages
430
I too wanted an LCR until I shot a buddy's. I loved the action and it shot great, BUT it shot high (which I can live with and possibly regulate with ammo) but also about 6" left for eveyone who shot it. There is no way to turn the barrel or drift a sight. I refuse to own a defense arm that shoots 6" off to one side at 15 yds. Three or more seasoned shooters, including myself, all had groups approx. 6" left so it was the gun.
 

mohavesam

Hawkeye
Joined
Jan 4, 2004
Messages
5,847
"What is tactical BS though is planning on getting into a firefight with only five rounds and thinking running away will solve your problem. lol :lol:

As far as the jury, I`d rather be tried by twelve than carried by six. The last thing I need is to be worrying about what some brainwashed cherry picked jury is going to think about my actions, when the much more pressing issue is defending my life. If I live through the encounter then I`ll worry about the jury."


BTDT/got the tshirt and no sane person 'plans for a gunfight'; practicing with speedloader doesn't mean one should dine & dance the missus with a half-pound of extra ammo under your tux. The 'tried by twelve...' is kinda cool until you're pointed out from the witness chair. And you think abut your lawyer's hourly rate, just sitting there quietly. Anyone here know of what I speak?

I don't have any advice to anyone except run first if you can.
 

bub

Single-Sixer
Joined
Jul 28, 2007
Messages
245
mohavesam":xqrwzqgr said:
I still have not seen any "torture test" report or article for the LCR.

Who "speed loads" a belly gun anyway. That is just alot of armchair-tactical BS. I have always been taught that the "speedloader" is your option to RUN away, after five shots, if the threat is still there.

No jury is going to sympathize with someone who stayed around and reloaded.

:shock:

Respectfully, you are dead wrong about this. Speedloads should be practiced every time you shoot your "belly gun". Reloads should also be carried every time you carry a gun, belly gun or not.

The only thing that is constant about lethal-force scenarios is that every one is different. Some may well require a reload, some may not. Some may be resolved by just showing the gun and some may require that you actually shoot the BG. Although a lot of people like to poo-poo this thought, some may take place at longer ranges (25+ yds) and some may take place at bad-breath ranges.

Every time I go to the range, I practice speedloading my SP101 and shooting at longer ranges (25+ yds). While the odds are very low that I will have to reload or make shots longer than 10-15 feet, they do happen on occasion. Failing to plan for this or practice means that you are likely to fail if you are ever in this situation. Even if your situation is handled with 2-3 rounds, would you like to be standing there (or running away) with an empty gun, or would you like to at least have the option to reload before you take off, just in case the BG you just shot is not alone?

If you plan on only shooting what is in the gun and running away, fine, that's your business. But, don't put down those of us that plan for a worst-case scenario and train accordingly.

Bub
 

Stoots

Buckeye
Joined
May 27, 2002
Messages
1,465
revhigh":30ch7p5y said:
Those models were released when Bill was alive and running the show and Ruger didn't have the 'new release reputation' that they now have after the disastrous P345, LCP, and SR9 releases (oh for three). Ruger is a different company now, although their service is still mostly very good, considering the amount of repairs and recalls they've had to deal with.

You certainly can't fault someone for being cautious with a new Ruger, especially one so revolutionary as the LCR.

REV


Agree 100% Rev.

That's LEAN manufacturing for ya...
 

nn

Single-Sixer
Joined
Feb 22, 2008
Messages
427
clayflingythingy":d5aulqwv said:
NM,

There have been reports on this and other forums, as well as written reviews, that the J frame HKS speedloader will bind if the cartridges are inserted very far into the cylinder.
If one just inserts the tip of the bullets and uses gravity to do the rest, a
HKS 36 speed loader works good enough. However, when the range opens tomorrow I plan on getting speed strips and try them.
 

NMCB3

Bearcat
Joined
Nov 6, 2005
Messages
54
mohavesam":2lqksrh8 said:
"What is tactical BS though is planning on getting into a firefight with only five rounds and thinking running away will solve your problem. lol :lol:

As far as the jury, I`d rather be tried by twelve than carried by six. The last thing I need is to be worrying about what some brainwashed cherry picked jury is going to think about my actions, when the much more pressing issue is defending my life. If I live through the encounter then I`ll worry about the jury."


BTDT/got the tshirt and no sane person 'plans for a gunfight'; practicing with speedloader doesn't mean one should dine & dance the missus with a half-pound of extra ammo under your tux. The 'tried by twelve...' is kinda cool until you're pointed out from the witness chair. And you think abut your lawyer's hourly rate, just sitting there quietly. Anyone here know of what I speak?

I don't have any advice to anyone except run first if you can.
If no sane person trained for a gunfight then places like Gunsite and Lethal Force Institute would not exist.

If you choose not to carry spare ammo or a backup gun then thats your choice, what you do doesnt concern me. Personally I always carry spare ammo, and/or a backup gun, I believe that not doing so puts me at additional risk.

That hesitation and doubt you feel about the consequences of defending yourself could quite possibly be the last thoughts that go through your mind. In my case I know what constitutes the legitimate use of lethal force and what doesnt, I have planned what I`ll do before hand in as many cases as I can dream up (although I think of others all the time). Unlike you I believe it`s quite sane and rational to be prepared, and quite irrational to go about armed with no, spare ammo and no plan of action except retreat.If your main strategy is to run away then so be it. Certainly there are scenarios when retreat is a viable option (faced with overwhelming numbers etc) Other times running away is just plain cowardly (like when your wife is being gang-raped by three ex-cons)
 

Sonnytoo

Blackhawk
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
631
One case I read about and it scared me. The cop was using his car as a shield and was shooting over the hood at the BG. The cop's revolver went dry. He stooped over to reload. The BG vaulted over the hood and shot the officer dead while the cop is still reloading. That is a Rosie O'Donnell. I think the BG should go directly to hell, even if the cop was a slow reloader.
Sonnytoo
 

EarlFH

Single-Sixer
Joined
Dec 17, 2007
Messages
361
mohavesam":rx6purl0 said:
"What is tactical BS though is planning on getting into a firefight with only five rounds and thinking running away will solve your problem. lol :lol:

As far as the jury, I`d rather be tried by twelve than carried by six. The last thing I need is to be worrying about what some brainwashed cherry picked jury is going to think about my actions, when the much more pressing issue is defending my life. If I live through the encounter then I`ll worry about the jury."


BTDT/got the tshirt and no sane person 'plans for a gunfight'; practicing with speedloader doesn't mean one should dine & dance the missus with a half-pound of extra ammo under your tux. The 'tried by twelve...' is kinda cool until you're pointed out from the witness chair. And you think abut your lawyer's hourly rate, just sitting there quietly. Anyone here know of what I speak?

I don't have any advice to anyone except run first if you can.

I'd sure like to see the gun that you carry, if 5, or 6 extra rounds weigh a half a pound. (a sawed off 870, maybe?) :shock:

I've never worn a tux in my life, so I guess I don't have to worry about that.

Earl.
 

badchris

Bearcat
Joined
Dec 30, 2008
Messages
11
NMCB3":3g9jryyd said:
If you choose not to carry spare ammo or a backup gun then thats your choice, what you do doesnt concern me. Personally I always carry spare ammo, and/or a backup gun, I believe that not doing so puts me at additional risk.
bub":3g9jryyd said:
If you plan on only shooting what is in the gun and running away, fine, that's your business. But, don't put down those of us that plan for a worst-case scenario and train accordingly.
Right on.
 

Bear Paw Jack

Hawkeye
Joined
Dec 19, 2001
Messages
9,444
Well I pack a S&W 642 and have for years. BUT if I were in the market for a belly gun presently and was shopping between the Ruger and Smith the LAST reason I'd pass up on a Ruger REVOLVER is because it's new. The technology they use on the LCR is the same they used on the Security Six. I deal with several manufacturers and if you call Smith some time one of the options to push the button for is recalled items. The lock on the Smith has a reputation for failure while the one on the Ruger does NOT. All the other BS on this arguement is apples and oranges. I as a civilian am not required to fight off the bad guys on the street. Too many people watch way to much tv have never had to deal with after math of a shoot. If you need to carry a small belly gun maybe carry a Bianchi Speed Strip if you need a reload.
 

mohavesam

Hawkeye
Joined
Jan 4, 2004
Messages
5,847
Some really thin skins around here? I said no sane person plans for a gunfight, nothing about training (which is different still from practice!). I'm not sure how bub thought I "put anyone down" with my experience, I just think speedloaders are funny :) unless you're in uniform. I've trained at Gunsite twice (first time 23 years ago) and the consensus was the same: train & practice with all the accessories, but if reality hits, you'll probably have the minimum equipment - a gun and what's in it. This is exactly what happened to me (and to my wife). I'd like to hear from anyone who has actually used a carry revolver in a defensive shooting, and we'll compare notes.

In the meantime, practice any way you want - just practice!
 

bub

Single-Sixer
Joined
Jul 28, 2007
Messages
245
mohavesam":l5urz7hw said:
I still have not seen any "torture test" report or article for the LCR.

Who "speed loads" a belly gun anyway. That is just alot of armchair-tactical BS. I have always been taught that the "speedloader" is your option to RUN away, after five shots, if the threat is still there.

No jury is going to sympathize with someone who stayed around and reloaded.

:shock:

By calling speedloaders and carrying them "armchair-tactical BS, you imply that anyone who speedloads or practices speedloading a "bellygun" is an armchair ranger and doesn't really know what they are doing.

As for training, I have had multiple ongoing training classes and sessions since becoming a Police Officer in 1991 and then becoming a firearms training officer in 1994. I'll grant you that none of them were Gunsite, but it shouldn't matter. Every class, seminar, paper, what have you, that I have read, seen or whatever, since then has stressed reloading and the necessity to be able to reload under stress. This applies to CCW holders, as well, not just cops.

As for having minimal equipment, well, what can I say? You may only have minimal equipment but I and a lot of others here don't. EVERY TIME I carry, I have my SP101, 2 speedloaders and 2 speed strips. EVERY TIME! I'll readily admit that it's overkill, but it is what I am comfortable with. If I carry something heavier (I will occasionally carry my Glock 21 duty gun in the winter, if I am wearing enough heavy clothes to effectively cover it and will also occasionally carry my Glock 26), I still have a minimum of 2 reloads for the gun. If you decide to carry just the gun and the ammo in it, it's your decision. I, personally, think it is foolish, but it's your decision. If you don't want to carry speedloaders, then carry speed strips. They are flat and carry very well in a pocket.

And, just because I know it will be brought up, yes, I am a cop and train that way. However, there is enough overlap in training for a gun fight that it shouldn't matter if you are a cop or CCW holder. A gunfight is a gunfight is a gunfight. The only real difference is what you should be doing before and after the fight, not what happens during. The training for the actual fight, to me, is exactly the same. To put rounds on target in an attempt to get the person you are shooting to stop whatever it is they are doing at that time.

IMHO, as an instructor, your practice should focus on what you learn in training and should work to hone those skills. Current wisdom is that, in a violent encounter, "You will not rise to the occasion, you will default to your level of training". If your training or practice sessions never included, for example, speed reloads, then you will, in all probability, screw it up if you have to speed reload in an encounter. Likewise, if you don't have training in long-range shooting and need this skill, you will likely screw that up, as well. This is why quite a few of us have these skills and practice them on a regular basis. Are they likely to be necessary in a strictly self-defense scenario? Probably not. But they are there if needed. To us, they are not "armchair-tactical BS", they are necessary skills. This is what I took offense to and took as a put-down. To me, it smacks of the arrogance that some show with the attitude that their method is right and everyone else is wrong. If it was not intended in that light, I apologize. But that is the way I took it. The problem with forums like this is that you lack the body language and vocal inflections that tell you when someone is just joking around and make it all too easy to take offense when none is meant.

And, I'll readily agree with you about practice. As long as you are using all your critical skill sets, it doesn't matter how you do it, just do it!

Bub
 

clayflingythingy

Single-Sixer
Joined
Sep 4, 2007
Messages
360
Bear Paw Jack":25a0wvl1 said:
BUT if I were in the market for a belly gun presently and was shopping between the Ruger and Smith the LAST reason I'd pass up on a Ruger REVOLVER is because it's new. The technology they use on the LCR is the same they used on the Security Six.

Uh, no, it's not.
 

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