Para P10-45 (are they go or no-go)

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I_Like_Pie

Blackhawk
Joined
Aug 24, 2006
Messages
659
Location
Chattanooga, TN
Have a chance to pick up a stainless one, but am concerned that the short barrel on this design of pistol would be somewhat unreliable....springs wearing out huge pivot axis on the barrel bushing and so on.

The gun looks good, a bit thick, but finding a really honest review on a gun is difficult if it really is a crappy gun. Kinda like nobody lets you know you have too many pounds on the belly until you have to do yardwork and figure it out for yourself....too late then

Anyone here have great success with these? I think they are called Warthogs now.
 

Yosemite Sam

Hunter
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Mar 18, 2002
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Cape Cod, MA, USA
Para changes their model names and numbers on a whim. I used to own a "C7.45 Para Companion LDA" and there were a number of similar guns that shared similar names over the years.

In general, short barrel 1911s are harder to get running right than full or Commander sized. My Officer's sized Para never failed to cycle or eject, but plenty of other 3.5" guns do have issues, from many makers. My gun used a ramped, conical bull barrel to help get around the unlocking issue.

The big complaints about Para center around plastic parts (mainspring housing, trigger), the cast frame (some say it's a poor casting; I'm no metallurgist), and misplaced frame holes. I ran into the latter when I put a steel MSH in mine, and had to redrill the hole in the MSH to fit the frame.

Like most guns, there are plenty of people who have them and they're trouble free, and a vocal few who have problems. I will say that if you read the Para subforum on 1911forum.com you will walk away somewhat concerned...

Have I mentioned that I recently picked up an RIA hi cap (14+1) 1911 for $465 NIB? :)

-- Sam
 

Talegunner

Bearcat
Joined
Feb 5, 2010
Messages
28
Location
East TN
I_Like_Pie":29ymgopy said:
Nice - thanks! I might pass on this thing since there seems to be more negatives than positives.


Para used to be one of the BIG names in "hi cap" frames for "Race Guns"(along with a competing company named STI ? I think?) They started out making just frames & were so popular and successful that they started to build the whole gun..................That being said back in 98 I purchased a P-14,P-10 and a Kimber Gold Match. All have proved to be great guns.............The full size Para has all the bells & whistles that the gold match has & is actually fitted tighter! Yes the triggers & main spring housings are plastic..............SO WHAT ? VERY easy to replace & parts are dirt cheap! My P-10 has proved to be both accurate & reliable...............If you can get it for the right price I say "Roll the Dice" If it looks to be a problem gun send it to Para & they will fix it for free!! ...............TG
 

sparks701

Bearcat
Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Messages
95
Location
Illinois
If its a true p-10, than its an older gun, go for it. Most of Paras problems are with their newer guns. My 15 year old p-13 is great.
 

sebtool

Blackhawk
Joined
Oct 3, 2009
Messages
678
Location
Mo - south of STL
Interesting. I'm looking at a P13-45 right now.

Any other feedback on them? I don't know how old it is. I guess try and run the sn? Is that info listed on a Para site somewhere?
Thx
 

SR9c

Bearcat
Joined
Feb 23, 2010
Messages
17
I_Like_Pie":348rljum said:
Have a chance to pick up a stainless one, but am concerned that the short barrel on this design of pistol would be somewhat unreliable....springs wearing out huge pivot axis on the barrel bushing and so on.

The gun looks good, a bit thick, but finding a really honest review on a gun is difficult if it really is a crappy gun. Kinda like nobody lets you know you have too many pounds on the belly until you have to do yardwork and figure it out for yourself....too late then

Anyone here have great success with these? I think they are called Warthogs now.

My experience with double stack 1911 45's has been all the same...with Kimber, Para, BUL, the gun was not designed to feed from a double stack and I never had one that was reliable...in Para's, I tried the P12 (twice), P10, P18 9mm, P14 and the Warthog version of the 9mm 3"...I gave up finally...
 

5Wire

Single-Sixer
Joined
Oct 25, 2003
Messages
202
Location
Portsmouth NH USA
I had a 6.46 LDA which has pretty much the same profile and barrel length and I never should have sold it. Accurate, easily concealed and a bit heavy.

645R.jpg


Now the Para Carry:

CWX645Sphoto_big.jpg


The P-10 had some problems but I believe they were worked out when the gun morphed into the Nite Hawg.

NHX1045Nphoto_big.jpg


Even though they are expensive, I do recommend buying Paras new and take advantage of their superior service policies as the original owner. It took a couple trips to the factory to get my 6.45 and my 12.45 to become reliable pistols and I was glad to have the warranty. I sold the wrong one (6.45) first and found I didn't care for the 12.45, now the Carry 12:

CWX645Sphoto_big.jpg
 

bub

Single-Sixer
Joined
Jul 28, 2007
Messages
245
Location
NE Ohio
I'd go to some of the various 1911 forums and poke around. Majority opinion seems to be that, if you get a good one, you are good to go; if you get one that needs work, Para customer service seems to be lacking. For example, there was a BIG thread at one of the forums where the painted finish on someone's Para was coming off after only a couple hundred rounds. Para said something to the effect that this was normal finish wear and didn't want to warranty it. I don't know what the final resolution was, but if the finish starts coming off right away and the company doesn't want to do anything about it, I think I'd look elsewhere.

Bub
 

5Wire

Single-Sixer
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Oct 25, 2003
Messages
202
Location
Portsmouth NH USA
Bub, you obviously have had no experience with PO Customer Service and I'd like to know where your "majority opinion" comes from. I've been a member of the 1911-Para Ordnance Forum for seven years and the M1911Para Ordnance Forum for five years and I can assure you—in spite of some exceptions and the kvetching present on any forum I've been on—the majority of the customer service opinions I've come across have been positive.

I've had two occasions each to send two pistols for warranty service. Each time they were out on Monday, back on Friday of the same week. I have spoken several times to George Wedge, who at the time was in charge of Para's Customer Service. He is also a regular contributor to both forums linked above. His reputation and my experience with him and the CS department have been most positive.

I have had no experience with Para since they moved their manufacturing to the US but anyone interested can check the forum links and do a search on customer service and evaluate the results for themselves.
 

Yosemite Sam

Hunter
Joined
Mar 18, 2002
Messages
2,113
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Cape Cod, MA, USA
Just handling a Para you can tell their finishes are really cheap. It's a paint-like substance that does indeed bubble, blister, and peel off.

If you're going to get one, get a stainless one, IMO.

5Wire, nice banjo! ;)

-- Sam
 

bub

Single-Sixer
Joined
Jul 28, 2007
Messages
245
Location
NE Ohio
5Wire, I distinctly remember reading on the 1911.org site a guy posting about the paint finish coming off his Para on the first range trip or two. He said that he called the Para service facility in TN and they initially told him that his type of finish wear was normal and they wouldn't warranty it. I also recall several more people posting about the poor Para painted finish. I don't recall the outcome of the thread, whether or not he got the slide refinished, but I do recall that he WASN'T happy, to say the least. I just spent 2 hours there, going back 50 pages on the Para subforum, without finding it.

I then went to the Para subforum at the 1911forums.com site and read about some less than complimentary threads about Para's service being deleted at 1911.org? I dunno, but I clearly remember reading about the Para finish issues and the Para service center in TN not wanting to handle it and now I can't find it. Coincidence? Again, I dunno. Also, on the 1911forums.com site, there is at least one person posting that they had their account deleted at 1911.org for posting less than complimentary things about Para service. There are also quite a few threads at the 1911forums.com site about poor finishes and poor customer service by the Para facility in TN- guns coming back unrepaired, calls and e-mails not returned, poor attitudes by people answering the phones there and so on and so on.

Also, based on posts both at 1911.org and 1911forums.com, George Wedge is no longer affiliated with Para's customer service and, reportedly, CS has suffered because of this. True or not, I don't know, but this is what I have read in posts at both sites.

I realize that every company can put out a lemon from time to time, especially in this day and age, when they are having trouble keeping up with the demand from the panic buying after the Obama election. It's not just how a company builds a gun, it's how they handle issues with the gun if they crop up. For example, when I first started in LE, I carried a Sig 226, which ws bought brand new by me. After about 1500 rds, it developed issues- FTFs, FTEs, hard trigger pulls and massive finish issues. I called Sig and got such poor customer service from them that I will never buy another Sig gun. Their attitude was about like I hear you get from HK- we make a superior product, if you are having problems it must be something you did to your gun, if you ship it back we will charge you X number of dollars just to look at it and determine if it is a warranty problem and so on and so on. They all but came out and said, "You suck and we hate you". Never again. The gun might have been a lemon but, based on their poor CS, I will NEVER AGAIN own a Sig product.

I don't have a dog in this fight since I don't own any Para guns and have no plans on owning any. I responded because I_Like_Pie seems like a good guy and I hate to see anyone buying a gun that they later regret because of lack of info. If you have the info and decide to buy anyway, well, that's your problem. If you have had good CS from Para, good for you. If you have never had a bad gun from Para, good for you. I_Like_Pie asked, so I told him what I had read, nothing more, nothing less. Like I posted, for myself, based on all the complaints about poor Para finishes and the apparent poor resolutions to the issues, and by extension Para CS in general, I'd skip Para. If your opinion is different, good for you.

Bub
 

5Wire

Single-Sixer
Joined
Oct 25, 2003
Messages
202
Location
Portsmouth NH USA
I hear ya, Bub. Some of the plated parts flaked on mine and I'm sure the move to the US made a difference, if only temporarily. George is a gem. Is he still with the company? I don't have any Paras anymore myself.
 

Yosemite Sam

Hunter
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Mar 18, 2002
Messages
2,113
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Cape Cod, MA, USA
I got to know George, too, when I took the thumb safety out of my LDA, put it back it wrong (it was and LDA, so there was a trick, of course), and the gun proceeded to disassemble itself. It was all my fault, but George was a big help, simply telling what to do via email. It would be too bad if he really were gone.

On a side note, it seems a lot of threads were deleted, and people banned, over at 1911Forum somewhat recently. Not sure what's going on there.

-- Sam
 

bub

Single-Sixer
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Jul 28, 2007
Messages
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NE Ohio
5Wire, I don't know, myself. However, from reading posts over there, he is still with Para in some capacity, just not CS anymore. I don't know. Pity, really, I liked the looks (and the price) of the GI Expert, but I really want stainless and forged frame and slide. Probably not much real world difference between cast and forged, but that's what I want.

Bub
 

I_Like_Pie

Blackhawk
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Messages
659
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Chattanooga, TN
bub":1n533lgb said:
I_Like_Pie asked, so I told him what I had read, nothing more, nothing less. Like I posted, for myself, based on all the complaints about poor Para finishes and the apparent poor resolutions to the issues, and by extension Para CS in general, I'd skip Para. If your opinion is different, good for you.

Bub

Your consensus is what I am picking up pretty much everywhere. They seemed to have moved to the states because of some sort of fallout, and during the transition there were quite a few quality problems.

FWIW I passed on the gun. I was going to trade a stainless Mini-14 on one.
 

sparks701

Bearcat
Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Messages
95
Location
Illinois
5Wire":26rbeq3y said:
Bub, you obviously have had no experience with PO Customer Service and I'd like to know where your "majority opinion" comes from. I've been a member of the 1911-Para Ordnance Forum for seven years and the M1911Para Ordnance Forum for five years and I can assure you—in spite of some exceptions and the kvetching present on any forum I've been on—the majority of the customer service opinions I've come across have been positive.

I've had two occasions each to send two pistols for warranty service. Each time they were out on Monday, back on Friday of the same week. I have spoken several times to George Wedge, who at the time was in charge of Para's Customer Service. He is also a regular contributor to both forums linked above. His reputation and my experience with him and the CS department have been most positive.

I have had no experience with Para since they moved their manufacturing to the US but anyone interested can check the forum links and do a search on customer service and evaluate the results for themselves.
You must not have read any of the posts on the POA (Para owners of America) forum. 90% are of bad customer service. Thats Paras own forum.
 

5Wire

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sparks701":v5edviw2 said:
You must not have read any of the posts on the POA (Para owners of America) forum. 90% are of bad customer service. Thats Paras own forum.
I never went to the Para Owners' forum, so you're right about that.

On the forums I cited above I did notice there were some spread out over time and a goodly portion associated with the changeover of their manufacturing facilities to the U.S.. Since I sold the last of my Paras over a year ago, I haven't really kept up with the brand.

I am sorry to hear George Wedge is no longer in Customer Service. He made a difference.
 

sparks701

Bearcat
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Messages
95
Location
Illinois
Seems things have really changed since 94' when I bought my P-13, the finish along with service seems to have gone down hill, hopefully with the move and their POA forum they can turn things around.
 
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