P89 - What Should I Be Aware Of Before Purchase?

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JNewell

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I'm interested in buying a P89 to go with my PC9. I've been shooting for more than 40 years and am completely comfortable with used gun check-out, etc. My question is: are there any issues with the P89 that I ought to be aware of before buying one? Searching through old posts I see comments about accuracy. Are there other issues affecting reliability, durability, etc.?
 

tech4064

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I think most here would tell you that the P89 is both durable and reliable. However, there has been some disagreement on this board with regard to its accuracy.

This is a post from another thread which might help explain the mixed reviews on the accuracy of the P89.

Originally posted by member P94/GP100:

I've had moderately different experiences than Revhigh as well with the P85/P89 pistols that I've owned. My current P89, a very late production (August 2007) is an absolute tack-driver, producing 1" to 1.5" groups, with total reliability, and has been used for carry, IDPA, and steel plate competitions. It also has a commendable trigger, both in DA and SA.

Ruger throughout the P85/P85MkII/P89 production continuously applied incrimental on going improvements to the guns. What I'd suggest looking for are the later production examples of the P89, visually distinguishable by the breech of the barrel rising above the plane of the slide; Ruger modified the barrel/slide fit for increased effeciency and accuracy. These guns also benefit from having the later sefety lever configuration, which is much more ergonomic than the earlier, smaller-shelved version. Late P89s also had a magazine modification, which placed the cartridge to be chambered a bit higher in the receiver; these magazines were also in a more desirable stainless steel tube/larger polymer floorplate configuration, slightly easing speed reloads.

I unhesitatingly recommend such a P89 for your consideration.

Best, Jon

http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=66286
 

tech4064

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I forgot to mention, the P89 I had was an older model. Accuracy was decent, but not as good as my CZ75. I would have to agree with rev on this point.
However, I haven't tried one of the later models, so I can't comment on how well they shoot.
 

pisgah

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My P89DC is utterly reliable and more than acceptably accurate. With Winchester WalMart 115 gr. ball ammo and my carry load, a Georgia Arms 115 gr. Gold Dot load, it will shoot in to 2-2.5" at 25 yards, and I couldn't point to a more durable 9mm.
 

Cheesewhiz

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Seriously, there have been an awful lot of threads lately extolling the fine points of the Ruger P85/P89 series pistols and how fantastic they are. Are you freakin' kidding me, 1" to 2" groups at 25 yards, prove it. I mean it, come to me or post a video on the net for proof and link it. I have owned a P85 and have shot several P89's and not one came even somewhat close to these reported numbers. These claims are equal to world class accuracy, why did Ruger discontinue the series? Did they make the world's most accurate pistol and not know it, and so cancel it. I don't bash guns, I just don't, but this is a pile of ....
 

pisgah

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Cheesewhiz":1shozd20 said:
Seriously, there have been an awful lot of threads lately extolling the fine points of the Ruger P85/P89 series pistols and how fantastic they are. Are you freakin' kidding me, 1" to 2" groups at 25 yards, prove it. I mean it, come to me or post a video on the net for proof and link it. I have owned a P85 and have shot several P89's and not one came even somewhat close to these reported numbers. These claims are equal to world class accuracy, why did Ruger discontinue the series? Did they make the world's most accurate pistol and not know it, and so cancel it. I don't bash guns, I just don't, but this is a pile of ....

All I'll say is there are two elements in shooting a group -- the gun and the shooter.
 

Cheesewhiz

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I can't believe that Ruger would stop making a gun that was so accurate, I just can't wait for Les Baer, Ed Brown or Wilson to come out with a copy of it. :lol:
 

pisgah

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Cheesewhiz":5olnfu07 said:
I can't believe that Ruger would stop making a gun that was so accurate, I just can't wait for Les Baer, Ed Brown or Wilson to come out with a copy of it. :lol:

Since when does accuracy of a gun determine how long it is produced?

Ruger et al exist to make money. Sales equal money. When the P89 came out, fill-sized, hiigh capacity, military-grade handguns were all the rage, and the segment of the market that was out shopping and buying (and that Ruger was aiming for) was the military/police sector.

They ended up selling more to the civilian side, which was fine. But, the civilian segment of the market is also more fickle. Police and armies tend to select a gun and then stick with it for years, even decades. Civilian gun sales run more to the "flavor of the week" variety, and the "in" style of gun changed rather radically, from full--size hi-cap to compact and lightweight, focused on concealed carry, and limited (by law, at the time) to a 10-round capacity. Given the change in concept, and the fact of the limited round count, the P89 became superflous -- few want a large, bulky handgun for concealed carry, and 10 rounds of 9mm can be fitted in to a pocket pistol.

Being interested primarily in making money, Ruger changed what it was selling in order to follow the market
 

revhigh

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pisgah":1vtvq20e said:
Since when does accuracy of a gun determine how long it is produced?

Trust me ... if P89's were that accurate, the public demand for them would have been so high that they wouldn't have been able to produce enough of them, and they surely would still be producing them ... by the hundreds of thousands ... if they had that reputation and capability.

Cheese is absolutely right ... that woiuld essentially be very close to world class accuracy. We've had this discussion before, and I've NEVER ONCE seen someone who proclaimed that kind of accuracy with a Ruger CF SA be able to reproduce it in person. I even started an entire thread about it because I was so sick of all the claims from the 'internet marksmen'. Not one taker .... in the REAL world of P89's, 4-8 inch groups are far more likely. That's what most gun rags call 'combat' accurate, which is fine for a knock around, SHTF gun, but NOT fine for a range gun where accuracy is the prime concern.

See below ... some interesting reading.

http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtop ... t=revhighs

REV
 

P94/GP100

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The normative mean that Ruger designed the P85 series (eventually encompassing the P85, P85 Mk II, and P89) around was in consonance with the JSSAP/DoD specifications of the XM9 and XM10 tests. To the best of my knowledge, the exact specifications for accuracy in these tests has not been made public; the accounts that I've read strongly suggest that 5" at 25 yards was the minimum expectation, with 3"-4" being desirable from a competitive scoring standpoint. Todd Green, a former Beretta employee (and later with SIG-Sauer, and now working a a highly regarded trainer/consultant, see www.Pistol-Training.com) stated in his Factory Beretta Armorer Class notes that "...each gun is put in a Ransom rest, settled (3-5 shots fired), and accuracy tested. M9 military guns must meet a standard of 8" 10-shot groups at 50m, while law enforcement and commercial guns are tested with 10 shots at 25 yards."

A former engineer involved in the P85/P89 series program has stated that the expected achievable norm of a P85/P89 is 3" at 25 yards, but that there were some deviations from this, particularly in the early P85 series guns, especially if they had the 2-piece welded barrels. Accuracy within the series steadily improved throughout the production cycle, and as a series peaked in the P89s, as Tech4064 graciously quoted me from an earlier thread.

The bottom line is this: You should be able to achieve 3" groups from your P85/P89. If you can't, Ruger had (and presumably still has) a fix for it, involving some massaging of the slide-to-barrel relationship, particularly in the bushing area. You will have the best chance of achieving this "out of the box" with a later-production P89, which incorporates all of the production modifications. These guns are distinguished by the barrel breach rising above the plane of the slide when the gun is in battery.

I have provided Revhigh a copy of the target with the 1" to 1.5" results that I achieved with my personal, very late (August 2007) production P89; I will be happy to provide it to anyone else interested; just PM me with your email address. That stated, I freely conceed that mine is an abberation, where all of the stars were in alignment in production (not that I'm complaining about it).

The P89, to the best of my knowledge, was phased out of production for several reasons: First, it was competing/vampiring sales from the SR9 (and P95), both platforms with which Ruger has a high interest in their success (and both of which I suspect cost far less to manufacture, leading to higher profitability). Second, good as it was/is, the P89 is hardly at the cusp of pistol evolution, from either a user or a manufacturer standpoint. Quite simply, there are pistols with better ergonomics, greater accuracy, and ones that are less expensive to make out there. And, marketplace tastes shift over time.

Even though I don't own one, I think that about the best consumer-available 9mm combat pistol available currently is the HK P30. It has high quality components, and excellent ergonomics, expedited by replaceable grip panel and backstrap inserts allowing an individual shooter to tailor the gun's fit to him/her. It is very expensive-about $800, when discounted from a stocking HK dealer.

My personal preference today is with a Glock G17/19/34-they're literally available at half the price of an HK P30, magazines are inexpensive and easily available, and Glock's aftermarket support is stellar. They work for me, and I index well with them, and can work on them myself when necessary. While an HK P30 might provide some theoretical ergonomic improvements to me over my Glocks, they'd also require me to spend a not insignificant amount of training time and resources to build them into my muscle memory-and I'm perfectly satisfied with the capabilities inherent to my Glocks, and doubtful that going to the HK platform would provide me with anything but a slight improvement in user ergonomics, and I've already adjusted to my Glocks, and prefer to expend my disposable income resources on training. practice, and competitions with what I've got...

Back to the P89. It is still a perfectly viable self-defense weapon. I have no hesitation in carrying (and occassionally competing with it, in IDPA and steel plate competitions) it. I often prefer it as a nightstand gun, given it's DA/SA action, reliability, and my comfort in indexing with it. However, my Glocks are more comfortable to shoot, and are certainly lighter to carry-for me. At the end of the day, I think that most individuals are best served by choosing one primary pistol platform, and practicing/training/competing/and carrying it to achieve the best overall results. A P89 certainly wouldn't be a bad choice for this.

Best, Jon
 

Cheesewhiz

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hittman":nqjys2ni said:
Accuracy and it's importance are relative.

If it's a self-defense piece and you have to use it to save your life, your target will likely be within arms reach.

Also if you're just a plinker 2 days a month you likely shoot from no more than 15 - 20 feet. Just sayin'.........

From a reliability and dependability standpoint, they are excellent guns.

hittman, I won't argue your last line at all, I really enjoyed my P85, mostly for those reasons.
Attributing outstanding acuracy to the P85/P89 series just seems so over the top to me. I'm a fairly good shooter and I shoot often and I have never found these guns close to being called "bullseye target accurate".
 

gatorhugger

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Has anybody ever claimed a p89 had "world class accuracy"??

They stopped making them for the same reason every product is discontinued. SALES.
Is that so hard to understand?
They came out when Glocks and Plastics were all the rage and a 2 pound pistol did not fit in. No cop wants to carry a 2 pound gun and civilians like carrying what the police and miltary carries.
Pretty simple. Sales suffered, so it was dropped.
I can assure you my p89 is every bit as accurate as my Glock 19.
But the Glock sales are high, it's light, the police love it.
It Has zero to do with accuracy. it Has everything to do with weight.

Now if you like a gun that fires everytime, will absolutely, positively work
when you want a gun to work get a P89.
That is all you need to know.
It may be the most reliable semi auto ever made.

If you want something that is finicky or may limp wrist or you just
like punching targets, and want some one inch accuracy into paper or if you just like spending a whole lot of money for a status symbol, I would pass on the P89.
Personally I think for $300 bucks for a self defense gun, it's the best deal out there. I don't need to spend $500-$700 so I can get the bullet holes
an inch closer. It's not important to me. To each his own.
 

P94/GP100

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I agree, Gatorhugger. The Ruger P89 is one of the few pistols that I've had that is extremely reliable and durable. I think an argument can be made that they are on a par with 9mm Glocks-but the Glocks are lighter, more modular in construction (thus extremely easy to detail disassemble, not just field-strip), and one of the least maintenance intensive pistols out there (in large part due to minimal metal-on-metal bearing areas, which in turn significantly minimizes the need for lubrication). Glock also has a very successful marketing effort and after-sales support, to both military, law enforcement, and commercial clients, something other manufacturers have lagged on.

Best, Jon
 

pisgah

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I, for one, have made no claims of "world class" accuracy, or any accuracy whatsoever for that matter, for the P Series of pistols. No doubt about it -- they were designed as service arms and built to a service arm standard of accuracy, typically 3-4" at 25 yards. What I DO claim, however, and what I will gladly demonstrate to anyone that will come here to see it, is that my P89 regularly delivers groups in the 2-2.5" range. Of course, we will determine a suitable wager beforehand, and I will insist upon seeing the cash before the demonstration begins and on being paid my winnings the moment the demonstration is over.

I will, however, give some general advice to anyone who may want to take me up on this: It's wise to know who you're dealing with before you make a deal.
 

revhigh

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gatorhugger":dm0veqa3 said:
Has anybody ever claimed a p89 had "world class accuracy"??

Well ... yeah ... they did ... (from a previous post) ...

I've had moderately different experiences than Revhigh as well with the P85/P89 pistols that I've owned. My current P89, a very late production (August 2007) is an absolute tack-driver, producing 1" to 1.5" groups, with total reliability, and has been used for carry, IDPA, and steel plate competitions. It also has a commendable trigger, both in DA and SA.

The above, my friend, is world class accuracy. And no matter what can be done on a one-off, one-time shooting, world class accuracy is REPEATABLE ... I'm still waiting for ANY Ruger P-series, (even the P90), to exhibit that characteristic. Period. Anybody can take a once in a lifetime target and claim that that is the norm for their gun, however that is NOT the norm for the Ruger P-series guns, and I've put up money to see someone prove it. To this day ... no one has come forth. I challenge ANYONE to even show me a test report from a gun rag or gun testing agency that shows ANY Ruger P-series gun shooting a 1-1.5 inch group.

Ruger semis are typically described as having 'combat' accuracy, which is perfectly acceptable for an otherwise very reliable and very durable weapon. Ruger is on the top of the heap for reliability, durability, and 'handsomeness' (LOL), but at the bottom of the heap for accuracy ... that's just the way it is, unfortunately .... :D

REV
 

tkarter

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My P89 will shoot 2 inch groups at 25 yards all day long. I am not about to prove it since it wouldn't matter what i posted.

I shot a 1 inch group with it at 15 yards the day I bought it.
The person I bought it from said I never could shoot that pistol that accurately. I shot his Glock and had a 3 inch group with it. He shot a 2 inch group with his Glock.


Tells me we are all different and maybe not spend so much time blaming the handgun.

The Ruger DA pull will cause a lot of bad groups if someone isn't up to a DA trigger pull.

imho

tk
 

revhigh

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pisgah":35r3m44p said:
What I DO claim, however, and what I will gladly demonstrate to anyone that will come here to see it, is that my P89 regularly delivers groups in the 2-2.5" range.

I will, however, give some general advice to anyone who may want to take me up on this: It's wise to know who you're dealing with before you make a deal.


I will officially take you up on your 2 inch, 5 shot group at 25 yards claim .... where are you located (please, please, let it be near me) ? There is no such thing as a 2-2.5 inch group, a group is either 2 inches or 2.5 inches, it can't be both ...

Regarding your last comment ... I'm not worried in the least ... internet talk is cheap ... let's see the shooting ... in person ... as soon as possible ... and I'l gladly show you MY MONEY, as I expect to see yours prior to your 'demonstration'. 2.0 inches or less .... center to center ... 25 yards ... 5 shots .... repeatable .... no BS. Let's do it !

REV
 

tkarter

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Rev I don't wager but would love for you to come to Kansas and shoot my P89. I hope you can be man enough to say I was wrong when you do.

tk
 

revhigh

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tkarter":2w78aw7g said:
My P89 will shoot 2 inch groups at 25 yards all day long. I am not about to prove it since it wouldn't matter what i posted.

Well, then you can make some real money from me .... when do you want to take my money ? Give up your day job, and just shoot 2 inch groups 'all day long' ... why work ?

REV
 

revhigh

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tkarter":2ply2avu said:
Rev I don't wager but would love for you to come to Kansas and shoot my P89. I hope you can be man enough to say I was wrong when you do.

tk

Don't think I could do that tk, since I am not capable of shooting 2 inch groups at 25 yards (with ANY gun) ... I'd be glad to watch you do it, though, 'all day long' if need be. :D

Trust me ... you do that ... and I'll shout if from the rooftops right here on the forum ... believe it or not ... nothing would give me greater pleasure ... I truly mean that.

REV
 

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