P89 - What Should I Be Aware Of Before Purchase?

[tkarter]

Come to Kansas and we will give it a go. My P89 shoots the same at 25 yards it does at 7. Most pistols will.

You a coffee drinker?

I wouldn't discourage anyone from buying a P89.

tk

 

[revhigh]

LOL, coffee is probably the ONLY liquid that I DON'T drink. I think it smells fantastic when being brewed, but tastes like battery acid. I literally have drank less than 4 ounces of coffee in my ENTIRE life. I'm an iced tea connisseur (sp?).

Where are you in Kansas ?? I may be coming out that way to visit some friends next summer. Would be fun to shoot your gun ...

REV

 

[tkarter]

Just North of Topeka.

LOL I drink a lot of coffee. It hasn't acted like battery acid.

tk

 

[Cheesewhiz]

pisgah, were do you live? I travel quite a bit, I just might end up in your neck of the woods. I would love to see you shoot those 2" groups.

 

[JNewell]

Thanks, folks. I guess I should have made the reason for my question clearer. I have never been a big fan of the P-series myself and it would not be my first or probably even third choice as a personal 24/7 sidearm.

However, I do have a PC9 that I view as a very suitable defensive longarm, both for myself and for family members, and the P89 has the significant advantage of using the same magazines. So, if it will shoot 5" at 25 yards and go bang every time the trigger is pulled, that will serve very nicely. There is a very clean copy at a local dealer and I will give it a go. Thank you all.

John

The normative mean that Ruger designed the P85 series (eventually encompassing the P85, P85 Mk II, and P89) around was in consonance with the JSSAP/DoD specifications of the XM9 and XM10 tests. To the best of my knowledge, the exact specifications for accuracy in these tests has not been made public; the accounts that I've read strongly suggest that 5" at 25 yards was the minimum expectation, with 3"-4" being desirable from a competitive scoring standpoint. Todd Green, a former Beretta employee (and later with SIG-Sauer, and now working a a highly regarded trainer/consultant, see www.Pistol-Training.com) stated in his Factory Beretta Armorer Class notes that "...each gun is put in a Ransom rest, settled (3-5 shots fired), and accuracy tested. M9 military guns must meet a standard of 8" 10-shot groups at 50m, while law enforcement and commercial guns are tested with 10 shots at 25 yards."

A former engineer involved in the P85/P89 series program has stated that the expected achievable norm of a P85/P89 is 3" at 25 yards, but that there were some deviations from this, particularly in the early P85 series guns, especially if they had the 2-piece welded barrels. Accuracy within the series steadily improved throughout the production cycle, and as a series peaked in the P89s, as Tech4064 graciously quoted me from an earlier thread.

The bottom line is this: You should be able to achieve 3" groups from your P85/P89. If you can't, Ruger had (and presumably still has) a fix for it, involving some massaging of the slide-to-barrel relationship, particularly in the bushing area. You will have the best chance of achieving this "out of the box" with a later-production P89, which incorporates all of the production modifications. These guns are distinguished by the barrel breach rising above the plane of the slide when the gun is in battery.

I have provided Revhigh a copy of the target with the 1" to 1.5" results that I achieved with my personal, very late (August 2007) production P89; I will be happy to provide it to anyone else interested; just PM me with your email address. That stated, I freely conceed that mine is an abberation, where all of the stars were in alignment in production (not that I'm complaining about it).

The P89, to the best of my knowledge, was phased out of production for several reasons: First, it was competing/vampiring sales from the SR9 (and P95), both platforms with which Ruger has a high interest in their success (and both of which I suspect cost far less to manufacture, leading to higher profitability). Second, good as it was/is, the P89 is hardly at the cusp of pistol evolution, from either a user or a manufacturer standpoint. Quite simply, there are pistols with better ergonomics, greater accuracy, and ones that are less expensive to make out there. And, marketplace tastes shift over time.

Even though I don't own one, I think that about the best consumer-available 9mm combat pistol available currently is the HK P30. It has high quality components, and excellent ergonomics, expedited by replaceable grip panel and backstrap inserts allowing an individual shooter to tailor the gun's fit to him/her. It is very expensive-about $800, when discounted from a stocking HK dealer.

My personal preference today is with a Glock G17/19/34-they're literally available at half the price of an HK P30, magazines are inexpensive and easily available, and Glock's aftermarket support is stellar. They work for me, and I index well with them, and can work on them myself when necessary. While an HK P30 might provide some theoretical ergonomic improvements to me over my Glocks, they'd also require me to spend a not insignificant amount of training time and resources to build them into my muscle memory-and I'm perfectly satisfied with the capabilities inherent to my Glocks, and doubtful that going to the HK platform would provide me with anything but a slight improvement in user ergonomics, and I've already adjusted to my Glocks, and prefer to expend my disposable income resources on training. practice, and competitions with what I've got...

Back to the P89. It is still a perfectly viable self-defense weapon. I have no hesitation in carrying (and occassionally competing with it, in IDPA and steel plate competitions) it. I often prefer it as a nightstand gun, given it's DA/SA action, reliability, and my comfort in indexing with it. However, my Glocks are more comfortable to shoot, and are certainly lighter to carry-for me. At the end of the day, I think that most individuals are best served by choosing one primary pistol platform, and practicing/training/competing/and carrying it to achieve the best overall results. A P89 certainly wouldn't be a bad choice for this.

Best, Jon

 

[revhigh]

Careful, Cheese, you don't know who you're dealing with ....

REV

 

[revhigh]

So, if it will shoot 5" at 25 yards and go bang every time the trigger is pulled, that will serve very nicely.

Yeah, JNewell, it should do that ... if you get a good one.

REV

 

[Cheesewhiz]

Thanks, folks. I guess I should have made the reason for my question clearer. I have never been a big fan of the P-series myself and it would not be my first or probably even third choice as a personal 24/7 sidearm.

However, I do have a PC9 that I view as a very suitable defensive longarm, both for myself and for family members, and the P89 has the significant advantage of using the same magazines. So, if it will shoot 5" at 25 yards and go bang every time the trigger is pulled, that will serve very nicely. There is a very clean copy at a local dealer and I will give it a go. Thank you all.

John

I can understand you wanting a P89 seeing that you already own a PC9 and I'm really sorry for somewhat hijacking your thread, I just have to question the obvious sometimes.

 

[Xelera]

I have around 400 rounds through my P89 so far. I had one fail to eject in the first 10 rounds fired, and it's been flawless ever since, not one single failure.

I used it for my CCW class, in the wind and cold, no jacket, and put every shot nicely, though not bragging tight, on 8x10 target at the required 7 yards. Some of that was me as the shooter, not being very good yet.

My friend has a Sprinfield Armory XDm in 9mm, with 19+1 capacity. He shoots the XD more accurately, and I shoot my P89 more accurately. Time on the gun and choice of ammo counts. The P89 has less kick from some extra mass to it, so its easier to shoot more through it on a range trip. We both prefer the feel to the P89 as well. Just feels better in our larger hands. If you have smaller hands, maybe not the gun for you.

I like the de-c*cker style safety, and even though its a larger gun, its a nice feature for pocket or any other concealed carry.

The SA/DA trigger is decent, and when its acting as a DA, I prefer to c*ck the hammer and shoot as a SA rather than have the longer DA pull.

Easy to disassemble and clean. For the price, it has to be one of the best values in a semi-auto out there, especially considering how durable they are.

Would I try to win a competition with it? Not a chance. But I don't think anyone would try to, with a $300-$400 pistol to begin with. It has its purpose and it serves that purpose well.

 

[revhigh]

I will officially take you up on your 2 inch, 5 shot group at 25 yards claim .... where are you located (please, please, let it be near me) ?

REV

Still waiting ........

 

[tkarter]

Come to Kansas I will show you 2 inches or less at 20 yards an maybe 25 as the gun shoots the same from 7yds to 25 as the shooter does.

Rev. I will fix breakfast.

You seem a little too hardcore against a P series pistol. You doubt many of us.

Let's get to the bottom of this you win or I do once and for all.

tk

 

[revhigh]

Come to Kansas I will show you 2 inches or less at 20 yards an maybe 25 as the gun shoots the same from 7yds to 25 as the shooter does.

Rev. I will fix breakfast.

You seem a little too hardcore against a P series pistol. You doubt many of us.

tk

Wasn't talking about you TK, but breakfast does sound good in Kansas.

Actually, not really hardcore down on the P89, just making a point that 2 inches with ANY gun at 25 yards is damn near impossible for an amateur. I'm really tired of hearing the tired old saw about 'my gun does this 'ALL DAY LONG' or my gun does that 'ALL DAY LONG'. I probably shoot more than most people here, and I KNOW how hard it is to shoot a 2 inch group at 17 yards, let alone 25, and I have guns that are a helluva lot MORE ACCURATE than a P89. I may not be the best shooter, but most people consider me a good shot, and I RARELY see a sub-2 inch group at 17 yards. I did post one on the 1911 thread ... didn't measure it but it's pretty tight.

In this case I was being 'hardcore' on difficult to believe shooting claims rather than the P89 itself, although a 2 inch group with a p89 at 25 yards does raise the stakes considerably.

REV

 

[tkarter]

Well Rev I have rifles and if you do when you come fore breakfast let's do a little 200 yard shooting with them.

I am not about bullshite. I know what I can do shooting as I am in by 50's and been shooting since a preteen.

I am not always spot on shooting but I know when it is me or the gun.


Come to Kansas I will brew tea for the first time and fix breakfast and we shall go shoot.

I might let you shoot my Interarms Mark X 30-06 that will do a MOA all day long at 100 yards now and when I was young with good eyes I could do it at 200.


I grew up shooting and know danged well how to shoot. I don't call a gun accurate that isn't.

I carry a P95 every day.

bring your CZ I have shot them too. Never did shoot as good as my Rugers and I know that is me.

You seem to think everyone is you. Not the proper way to look at it so come to breakfast and we will eat good and waste some ammo.

tk

 

[revhigh]

I am not about bullshite. I know what I can do shooting as I am in by 50's and been shooting since a preteen.

ME TOO !!

I am not always spot on shooting but I know when it is me or the gun.

ME TOO !!!!

Come to Kansas I will brew tea for the first time and fix breakfast and we shall go shoot.

SOUNDS GOOD !!!

I grew up shooting and know danged well how to shoot. I don't call a gun accurate that isn't.

ME NEITHER !!!!

You seem to think everyone is you.

I WOULDN'T WISH THAT ON ANYBODY LOL

Not the proper way to look at it so come to breakfast and we will eat good and waste some ammo.

AGAIN, SOUNDS GOOD !! I'LL LET YOU KNOW IF I GET OUT THAT WAY.

Speaking of accurate, I have a Savage 93R17 .17 HMR that will also shoot less than one inch groups 'all day long' at 100 yards if the wind is calm

REV

 

[tkarter]

What you shoot with that little bitty bullet? Flies?

tk

 

[revhigh]

What you shoot with that little bitty bullet? Flies?

tk

Nope ... I use a 1911 for flies .... I shoot mosquitos with the .17 .... at 100 yards ..... LOL !!!!!

Looking forward to breakfast ... I won't forget !!

REV

 

[tkarter]

A sportin man should try 200 yards.

tk

 

[revhigh]

A sportin man should try 200 yards.

tk

I know, I know ... that little 17 grainer doesn't like much over 130 ... 150 max. I've been looking for a nice used 25-06.

REV

 

[JNewell]

Wow, you two still going at it???

 

[tkarter]

Always until Rev comes to shoot a good P89.

any way mosquitos at 100 yards is 45-70 type shooting with a rifle.

tk