P89 Inaccuracy

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soldernut

Single-Sixer
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Jul 24, 2010
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300
For years I've owned a P89 that I bought new.

There's much to like about it. At the top of my "like" list is its absolute reliability. Until I bought my CZs, I'd never before encountered a semi-auto that was like the kid, Mikey on TV breakfast cereal ads: "He'll eat anything!"

My P89 is like that. It has never failed to feed, failed to fire, or failed to eject properly. It's had all manner of factory ammo fed through it, not to mention all the reloads. Copper jacketed, copper plated, hard and soft lead, round nose, hollow-point, you name it. And everything from ultra-tame target reloads to full-house. +P ammo.

I also like the overall feel of the P89. My hands run to the large side and the P89 is really comfortable.

My only gripe is it's abysmal accuracy: Never better than six-inch groups at 25 yards; often far worse, and I'm an above-average shooter.

Shortly after buying it, I wrote to Ruger about the lousy accuracy. Their reply was to the effect "This is a service pistol, not intended for benchrest competition. The accuracy you describe is within our acceptable limits."

Of course, at that time, I was spoiled rotten with the accuracy of my KGP-141. That thing's always been a tack-driver.

I get it about "service" pistols - up to a point. I don't expect 2-inch groups at 25 yards, but groups that are never better than 7 or 8 inches?

Losing interest in full-size 9mm pistols, I've thought about dumping it, but...

I'd love to hear suggestions about what I might do to increase this pistol's accuracy.

Thanks in advance.
 

LaneP

Single-Sixer
Joined
Oct 26, 2013
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268
Location
New England
What type of loads have you used to test in it so far?

I owned a P345 once and got rid of it for reasons similar to what you describe. I just couldn't get that pistol to group. I don't expect match accuracy from a combat pistol, but I'd like it to at least go into no larger than 4" at 25 yards from a rest with good ammo. Anything less than that would of course be a bonus.

Ruger barrels tend to be rifled shallow and not finished post-rifling to remove machining marks left from the rifling process, so hard jacketed or very hard cast lead bullets will probably perform better out of the gate.
 

revhigh

Hawkeye
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soldernut said:
My only gripe is it's abysmal accuracy: Never better than six-inch groups at 25 yards; often far worse, and I'm an above-average shooter.

Shortly after buying it, I wrote to Ruger about the lousy accuracy. Their reply was to the effect "This is a service pistol, not intended for benchrest competition. The accuracy you describe is within our acceptable limits."

I'd love to hear suggestions about what I might do to increase this pistol's accuracy.

Thanks in advance.

Highspeedlane said:
I owned a P345 once and got rid of it for reasons similar to what you describe. I just couldn't get that pistol to group.


LOL ... Ruger also told me my P91 'functioned as designed' when it was shooting 6-8 inch groups at 50 feet. My P89 wasn't much better.

Suggestions ? Easy. Buy a Sig 226 or a CZ75 if you want accuracy and a gun you can improve with.

Stick with the Ruger MK 22's and revolvers if you want accuracy out of a Ruger. Stay away from any P series gun except for the P90 if accuracy is a prime concern.

REV
 

LaneP

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Oct 26, 2013
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Location
New England
revhigh said:
Suggestions ? Easy. Buy a Sig 226 or a CZ75 if you want accuracy and a gun you can improve with.

Stick with the Ruger MK 22's and revolvers if you want accuracy out of a Ruger. Stay away from any P series gun except for the P90 if accuracy is a prime concern.

REV

Great advice Rev. Ruger nailed the Mk series .22 autoloaders and revolvers. I just don't know what their thinking was with the P series centerfire auto line.
 
Joined
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Granbury, TX. USA
I'm so glad it's not just me! I've owned and sold all 3 of my P89s in various configurations due to accuracy problems. The P89TH was my first real handgun. Just starting out, I thought it was just me. Until I had the opportunity to experience other weapons. Which ultimately led me to get some decent guns and start shooting seriously.
 

soldernut

Single-Sixer
Joined
Jul 24, 2010
Messages
300
Highspeedlane said:
What type of loads have you used to test in it so far?

Snipped
Literally anything you can imagine. 115 124 and 147 grain bullets in configurations from cast lead to hardball to hollow points. Factory and very careful hand loads in all of the above. Handloads with different propellants; Bullseye, Titegroup, Unique, Power Pistol and some I've forgotten, for sure.

I can't say that any particular type was better than the others.

Thanks.
 

soldernut

Single-Sixer
Joined
Jul 24, 2010
Messages
300
revhigh said:
LOL ... Ruger also told me my P91 'functioned as designed' when it was shooting 6-8 inch groups at 50 feet. My P89 wasn't much better.

Suggestions ? Easy. Buy a Sig 226 or a CZ75 if you want accuracy and a gun you can improve with.

Stick with the Ruger MK 22's and revolvers if you want accuracy out of a Ruger. Stay away from any P series gun except for the P90 if accuracy is a prime concern.

REV

Thanks Rev. I hear good things about the 226 but I bought a CZ 75B in 40 cal. It combines the rugged reliability of the Ruger with accuracy that's much better than I am.

I gotta agree with you re Ruger revolvers. I first met them when my brother had a Security Six. Sweet gun.

My first .357 is a stainless Ruger KGP-141 with 4" barrel. It's actually better than my MK III.

I was so impressed with the CZ 75 that I bought their .45 AP, the CZ 97B, my first 45. It's a large, heavy thing, but talk about a straight shooter!

Everybody that's shot either of those CZs asks me if I'll trade. I've had offers for pretty much any make out there.

I was hoping somebody had suggestions for accurizing the Ruger P because I like the gun quite a bit.

Regards.
 

soldernut

Single-Sixer
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Jul 24, 2010
Messages
300
DA_TriggR4Ruger said:
I'm so glad it's not just me!

It's definitely not just you.

Over the years since getting mine, I've asked to shoot every "P" Ruger I've seen at the range. None of them have impressed me and most of their owners agree. I ask why they keep them and the stories are pretty much the same:

"It won't win any matches, but it won't let me down, either -- so long as the target's within 15, 20 feet."
 

aWoods

Single-Sixer
Joined
Aug 9, 2009
Messages
117
Wait, let me understand this correctly.

The p series is a range gun because you can't carry it anywhere, yet don't expect any enjoyable range gun accuracy out of it? Or maybe it's a nightstand gun, but heck, why not just go with a glock 17 w/ 33 round magazines or a shotgun?

Let's face it, this is why the p series never caught on, and was discontinued.
 

JEA1957

Bearcat
Joined
Dec 28, 2013
Messages
14
This is my first post here. I have owned my P89DC for the past 2 years. I'm a casual shooter, so I don't shoot near as much as I should. That being said:

My Ruger shoots everything I put through it, even reloads from a Lee Handloading Kit, which only neck sizes!

No issues at all-no FTF, FTE, etc. A very reliable pistol!

Accuracy-My Ruger P89DC shoots 3" groups all day long at 10 yards. Sadly, this is nowhere close to my Ruger SR1911 45 acp. 20 rounds at 10 yards into 2" group; 20 rounds at 15 yards into 3". Doesn't matter if factory or reloads-some of my reloads will shoot 5 rounds into 3/4" at 10 yards!

I would really like my P89DC to shoot better groups (like the SR1911), but I doubt it will ever happen. Accuracy is on par with "combat/self defense accuracy". I could feel secure in carrying the P89DC for CC. As it happens, I carry the SR1911-I've always enjoyed the 45acp and I love shooting the 1911! Yes, I carry a FS 5" 1911 for CC; I'm not a compact kind of guy. No plans to let the P89DC go...
 

soldernut

Single-Sixer
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Jul 24, 2010
Messages
300
JEA1957 said:
This is my first post here. I have owned my P89DC for the past 2 years. I'm a casual shooter, so I don't shoot near as much as I should.

Welcome!

JEA1957 said:
My Ruger shoots everything I put through it, even reloads from a Lee Handloading Kit, which only neck sizes!

No issues at all-no FTF, FTE, etc. A very reliable pistol!

That reliability is one of the things I do like about the pistol

JEA1957 said:
Accuracy-My Ruger P89DC shoots 3" groups all day long at 10 yards. Sadly, this is nowhere close to my Ruger SR1911 45 acp. 20 rounds at 10 yards into 2" group; 20 rounds at 15 yards into 3". Doesn't matter if factory or reloads-some of my reloads will shoot 5 rounds into 3/4" at 10 yards!

Mine is no better. Three other pistols that I shoot will run circles around it. One of them, the CZ 75B, is definitely a "service" pistol. It's said that the model 75 is the second-most used, licensed and knocked-off pistol in military and police duty. I can believe it.

The 75, a CZ 97B, and a Rock Island 1911 "match," will all shoot 2.5 inch groups at 25 yards! Of the three, only the Rock Island is marketed as a match pistol. The two CZs are just off-the-shelf "service" pistols.

Note: The pistols will shoot those small groups, not me. To get small groups I have to stabilize them with a sandbag or the like.

I've done that, many times, with the Ruger P. It doesn't help.

JEA1957 said:
I would really like my P89DC to shoot better groups (like the SR1911), but I doubt it will ever happen. Accuracy is on par with "combat/self defense accuracy". I could feel secure in carrying the P89DC for CC. As it happens, I carry the SR1911-I've always enjoyed the 45acp and I love shooting the 1911! Yes, I carry a FS 5" 1911 for CC; I'm not a compact kind of guy. No plans to let the P89DC go...

You're right. It's not going to happen.

The sad thing is that the P design has a lot going for it. Mine's all metal and built like a tank. As you've observed, it doesn't much care what kind of ammo you feed it. It fits my hand very well, feels like a natural pointer, has a very nice adjustable rear sight, and just drips "confidence" (misplaced).

Ruger could have done much better. At the least they could have offered a target model or sold kits to accurize the P series.

We know Ruger *can* make good barrels: My GP proves that. Same goes for the MK 22s.

Even if they couldn't they could have bought barrels from one of the manufacturers that can.

They could have copied or licensed the rear lock-up of the CZ 75 or 97. (The rear lock-up of the 75 is fantastic and the 97's is even better.

They could have used the threaded-in front barrel bushing like the CZ 97 does. Man is that thing tight!

Fortunately (or not) I don't have to carry concealed. If I did, the P wouldn't be the pistol I'd choose. I'd want a pistol with all the P's strong points, *and* good accuracy. I have it: The 75B, though for CC I might consider one of the smaller CZs.

Best regards
 

pjvrefugee

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south bend in
all my Rugers will outshoot me, including the P85 I bought new when they first came out. some days the groups are tight and some days they are sloppy. it depends on my focus and ability on that day.
 

JEA1957

Bearcat
Joined
Dec 28, 2013
Messages
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soldernut said:
DA_TriggR4Ruger said:
I'm so glad it's not just me!

It's definitely not just you.

Over the years since getting mine, I've asked to shoot every "P" Ruger I've seen at the range. None of them have impressed me and most of their owners agree. I ask why they keep them and the stories are pretty much the same:

"It won't win any matches, but it won't let me down, either -- so long as the target's within 15, 20 feet."

Soldernut,

First off, thanks for the welcome! :D I wish I could find more of the P series locally; I really do like the older, all metal models. I happened upon a used P345 that was in "Like New" condition. Bought it, took it to the range and had to take it right back to the shop for return. The gun shot amazingly accurate! Problem was, after every round, I had to push the slide back into battery! I had cleaned/lubed the gun prior to going to the range. After firing 15 rounds, I broke the gun down at the range and cleaned/lubed it again. Another 15 rounds and I called the shop from the range and explained the problem; gun went right back with no issues. Sad thing was, it was an awesome feeling/handling/shooting pistol! Felt more like a 9mm than a 45 auto. I kept the targets as a reminder of how accurate the gun was.

I knew I wanted a 45 auto, just not sure what; then the SR1911 came out and I knew! Found one locally and bought it; been happy ever since :mrgreen: Do I still want a P-90? You bet! A P-94? Oh yeah! Maybe the P-series isn't the most accurate or the best looking; but for rugged, dependable firearms, you can't beat a Ruger, IMO. 8)
 

Cheesewhiz

Hunter
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Feb 8, 2008
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Chicago, IL
revhigh said:
Suggestions ? Easy. Buy a Sig 226 or a CZ75 if you want accuracy and a gun you can improve with.

REV

Dumbest thing I ever heard, I melted all my CZ's down to impractical snowshoes for summer wear.
 

9.3X62AL

Bearcat
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Jun 9, 2014
Messages
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mrmike7189 said:
Love mine it is always accurate....guess some are better than others

This is my experience, also. Not a Camp Perry-capable machine, but it will put castings and jacketed bullets into 3"-3.5" at 25 yards very reliably--with both barrels/calibers, and both barrels shoot very close to the same points of impact. (The kit is the P-89X, with 30 Luger barrel and recoil spring assembly). I have run Hornady 85 grain XTPs to 1500 FPS using the 9mm recoil spring/guide, and hit jackrabbits well past 50 yards with these loads. The effects are COMPREHENSIVE. Don't expect table fare from small game hit with these loads.
 

modrifle3

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Cheesewhiz said:
revhigh said:
Suggestions ? Easy. Buy a Sig 226 or a CZ75 if you want accuracy and a gun you can improve with.

REV

Dumbest thing I ever heard, I melted all my CZ's down to impractical snowshoes for summer wear.

Never shot a CZ but most reviews put the CZ75 well above the P89 in target accuracy.

The only way I will believe the people that say they hit rabbits and golf balls at 50 yards with a p series with consistency is to see a video. I believe it more so with a super flat 85gr load than most of the stories. In general I don't know of any combat handgun giving 2" to 3" average groupings at 50 yards. I believe YouTube would be blowing up if this were the case.
 
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With modern manufacturing standards and tolerances the way that they are today, it's hard to see why you can't design a weapon that won't allow for both accuracy and reliability.I'm not even referring to only high dollar stuff either.hence the SR series... Well even the P90
 

modrifle3

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My p90 p97 and sr1911 were very accurate. Of course all three had been gone through by Ruger techs. I still slap myself for selling the 1911.
 
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