Over Engineered

[blume357]

At Church today and at the coffee hour after service there was no hot water to clean up in the kitchen... I got asked to go look at the water heater which is something like 75 gallon unit and was installed about 8 years ago and has a digital display on the front. Display says to turn power off and back on and if this does not work it will need a new circuit board... I was prepared that this thing has a circuit board what I was not prepared for was when we opened the panel to look at the board:
Here is the inside of this thing... it's just supposed to heat water.....

 

[Acorn]

Looks like something out of the space
shuttle

 

[powder smoke]

Looks like a Huge amount of money was wasted on that ark. Someone sold them a
bill of goods. Hot water Heaters should not need that Kinda of engineering!
I have work in many houses restaurants even Hospitals never seen the likes of that!

 

[Jeepnik]

Fairly typical of industrial hot water systems. Multiple relays to control the ignition procedure and temperature control. Before you do anything, deenergize the unit. Check all of th electrical connections for tightness and use an ohm meter to test the fuses. Any single fuse failure will prevent it's operation. The instructions are on the door. It has an ethernet cable from the mother board to the control panel. It may be possible to connect a laptop to the motherboard and perform a more compete diagnostics check.

I can't tell what's behind the styrofoam, but if any of those wires are loose it could cause issues.

Can't see the make or model to be any more specific. By the way, what's with the hand written notes on the panel and instruction book?

 

[GunnyGene]

Any rule that governs a system can also paralyse that system. Looks like way too many rules.

 

[blume357]

Fairly typical of industrial hot water systems. Multiple relays to control the ignition procedure and temperature control. Before you do anything, deenergize the unit. Check all of th electrical connections for tightness and use an ohm meter to test the fuses. Any single fuse failure will prevent it's operation. The instructions are on the door. It has an ethernet cable from the mother board to the control panel. It may be possible to connect a laptop to the motherboard and perform a more compete diagnostics check.

I can't tell what's behind the styrofoam, but if any of those wires are loose it could cause issues.

Can't see the make or model to be any more specific. By the way, what's with the hand written notes on the panel and instruction book?

There are previous notes and repairs in the back of the instruction manual.... circuit board has been replaced before by a fellow member who was a licensed electrician for years... problem is he was there today and is at a point in his life where he does not remember working on it 3 years ago. I was told a couple weeks ago by another fellow member who runs the audio and video of the services that the building has a problem with surges from lightning strikes near by and I should add a back up power supply and voltage protection system to the security camera system I was installing, which I did. I don't think there is a way to do that with this monster... which seems to be 3 phase. Replacing the circuit board, if we can find it, is pretty simple.

I presume the styrofoam is just covering the heating elements... I'm just having a problem wrapping my head around those 20 fuses.

 

[Jeepnik]

Center fuse on the third block from the left doesn't look to be fully seated. Push it all the way in. Sometime little stuff. Meter that fuse first. If you had surges, check and see if the board has any buss fuses or local reset. I can't see any, but I don't know whats behind the wire bundle.

 

[Hawk-in-Wi]

good eye, that fuse looks like it was put in a little low

 

[Wyandot Jim]

Just for the record. You never know when something is Over Engineered ONLY when it is UNDER Engineered.

 

[Fox Mike]

The first thing I did was look at the fuses and questioned why 20 fuses are needed to heat water for a church unless it is the size of the Astrodome

 

[contender]

Holy crap on a cracker. That hot water heater is definitely more than I'd want for my house or anything for that matter.

 

[T.A. WORKMAN]

Blume,
There's a reason you and I became "Bricky's" and not "Sparky's"!!
That would scare the heck out of me.... Beware young man beware!!
I get nervous changing a light bulb...
Terry

 

[Ray Newman]

In March 2022, we had a new heat pump and furnace installed. Worked for a while and then started to act up. Three thermostats later, the company rep came out. Took him over an hour to remove all of the wi-fi features and reprogram the system. Some people just don't understand that there are some areas that have spotty/little/ no cell phone and wi-fi connection. He looked askance about that until he tried to call his office, and there was no reception!

 

[Boxhead]

Fairly typical of industrial hot water systems. Multiple relays to control the ignition procedure and temperature control. Before you do anything, deenergize the unit. Check all of th electrical connections for tightness and use an ohm meter to test the fuses. Any single fuse failure will prevent it's operation. The instructions are on the door. It has an ethernet cable from the mother board to the control panel. It may be possible to connect a laptop to the motherboard and perform a more compete diagnostics check.

I can't tell what's behind the styrofoam, but if any of those wires are loose it could cause issues.

Can't see the make or model to be any more specific. By the way, what's with the hand written notes on the panel and instruction book?

Most folks do not like facts.

 

[blume357]

as said, good eye jeepnik.... but I suspect it is still connected. I'm also having a problem believing that one fuse not being connected or going out would cause the unit to stop working... not logical ..... but then putting 20 fuzes in a device like this is not logical to me...

here's a closer view of that line of fuzes:

 

[toysoldier]

Looks like a Huge amount of money was wasted on that ark. Someone sold them a
bill of goods. Hot water Heaters should not need that Kinda of engineering!
I have work in many houses restaurants even Hospitals never seen the likes of that!

Architects love designing churches. The architect's fee is a percentage of the building's cost, and it's easy to convince a congregation that they "don't want to go cheap" when building their house of worship.

 

[reuben_j_cogburn]

a woodstove and some stock pots??? Works for me!!!

 

[2Late45]

You have a 3 phase system with six contactors feeding at least six heating elements. So no, one fuse being loose is not going to shut down your heater. Unless that is one really advanced mother board with some crazy amp monitoring ability.

 

[2Late45]

3-phase water heater

3-phase water heater

waterheatertimer.org

very similar layout

 

[blume357]

Damn 2Late45, that is one more write up ... I actually had to print it all our so I can reference it later.
I kind of understand how 3 phase is more efficient than the standard single and you get more 'power' from it... what I can't quite garner is the need to create something so complicated to use it.