Opening a can of worms

[blume357]

Ain't that the truth.....

I consider myself a Christian even though most Christians would disagree because I also consider myself a Buddhist ..... I will only say that I live my life trying to follow the teachings of Christ. I've known a few hypocrites that considered themselves Christian but I can also say that I've had the good fortune to know a number of exceptionally good men who were of the Christian faith.

One of the truest statements I've ever read and I actually have it posted on my office wall is:

Ideas are created by Masters and Dogma by Disciples .........

 

[Mike J]

Two things one should not argue/discuss...religion and politics. Nobody ever wins or changes the other person's beliefs.

I am fine with whatever being discussed or debated. Many are not open minded enough to question their personal beliefs. Some people are. While as a child I was taught Christianity, right from wrong, etc. I still made bad choices. I found myself at a place where change was necessary. I sought help to learn how to change. In all honesty I just wanted to stop drinking but I was taught a program of recovery based on spiritual principles that encouraged one to seek spiritual growth though it did not try to tell a person what to believe in After much discussion, arguments, deep thought, spiritual seeking etc. I found myself wanting to be a Christian. I do have a much different perception of Christianity today than I did when I reached the point of knowing something had to change or I wasn't going to make it.

If I had been unwilling to question my beliefs or have open discussions with others I would have never learned anything. I believe open, honest discussion & debate is healthy. I don't think arguing, getting angry or belittling people with differing opinions helps anyone.

 

[jgt]

I was raised in the Church. One day I realized I could not do all the things I was told I had to do as a Christian. At first I listened to the voice in my head that told me I couldn't be a "good Christian" so I might as well be a good "sinner". After that, I was a good sinner. I was not happy though, so I told that voice "thanks very much for sharing," and decided to try again. I studied the scriptures for myself rather than depend on what I was told. I questioned my belief system to see if I believed it because I was taught that or I believed it because I had l excepted it. Most of all, I learned the proper use of will was to turn it over to the Almighty whom I choose to call God.
Once I started down that path, things got better. I know I am a sinner. I know I will never see the Pearly Gates without Grace, but I can look back and see he has blessed my life. The main realization I came to, is God is so much more than I can wrap my mind around.
My main obstacle was the picture of Heaven painted in my mind by the ole "Hellfire and Damnation, pulpit pounding, ice water drinkin preachers" made me not want to go there. I just didn't want to go to Hell. Today, I want to go to Heaven even if it is in the lowliest place there. I would like to see what it is like living in the absence of evil.
Anyway, since others were confessing, I thought I would too.

 

[Mobuck]

I wasn't trying to start a theological argument--just trying to understand or get some insight into a subject of which I have no personal knowledge. Several points made and no one is too bent out of shape so can we call this one finished before anyone gets upset?
Thanks for the input.

 

[Garth69]

I am fine with whatever being discussed or debated. Many are not open minded enough to question their personal beliefs. Some people are. While as a child I was taught Christianity, right from wrong, etc. I still made bad choices. I found myself at a place where change was necessary. I sought help to learn how to change. In all honesty I just wanted to stop drinking but I was taught a program of recovery based on spiritual principles that encouraged one to seek spiritual growth though it did not try to tell a person what to believe in After much discussion, arguments, deep thought, spiritual seeking etc. I found myself wanting to be a Christian. I do have a much different perception of Christianity today than I did when I reached the point of knowing something had to change or I wasn't going to make it.

If I had been unwilling to question my beliefs or have open discussions with others I would have never learned anything. I believe open, honest discussion & debate is healthy. I don't think arguing, getting angry or belittling people with differing opinions helps anyone.

I have been "accused" of being a Good Christian many times in my adult life. Fact is, I was brought up in church every Sunday ,Wednesday, and any other special occasion they put on. I have never believed the tall tales told by the many preachers that claim to know the unknowable. I joined the church at eight years old not out of any special calling but because my friend explained that I had reached the age where I could go to hell for eternity for not following the "rules" set by the heavenly father, who decided in his "infinite wisdom" to send his message to me via another human. Being inquisitive about life and certainly the penalty for non-compliance to the Holy Bible instructions deciphered for me via the man behind the podium, I started a "seek and ye shall find" program of higher learning through many different avenues. I have five different License to preach from three different church fellowships/organizations. Thats not even counting the Melchizedek priesthood which is simply a covenant made between me and the Heavenly Father on "our" word, which means anyone can become a preacher just by deciding to. All Righty then. The resulting search for the pure TRUTH in life and in death has led me to have an uncanny ability to posses a highly refined "bullshit-ometer" that I use daily in my interactions with my fellow man. When the meter is applied to religious dogma I get an unusually high reading on the meter. I didn't do my search for truth with fear and trembling like the good book mandates, but a thorough and fearless quest for the absolute truth by every means available. I think that if every human actually did his own study into what's truth and what's fiction the church would have serious problems proving their case for eternal bliss.......or blisters.

 

[Mike J]

I have been "accused" of being a Good Christian many times in my adult life. Fact is, I was brought up in church every Sunday ,Wednesday, and any other special occasion they put on. I have never believed the tall tales told by the many preachers that claim to know the unknowable. I joined the church at eight years old not out of any special calling but because my friend explained that I had reached the age where I could go to hell for eternity for not following the "rules" set by the heavenly father, who decided in his "infinite wisdom" to send his message to me via another human. Being inquisitive about life and certainly the penalty for non-compliance to the Holy Bible instructions deciphered for me via the man behind the podium, I started a "seek and ye shall find" program of higher learning through many different avenues. I have five different License to preach from three different church fellowships/organizations. Thats not even counting the Melchizedek priesthood which is simply a covenant made between me and the Heavenly Father on "our" word, which means anyone can become a preacher just by deciding to. All Righty then. The resulting search for the pure TRUTH in life and in death has led me to have an uncanny ability to posses a highly refined "bullshit-ometer" that I use daily in my interactions with my fellow man. When the meter is applied to religious dogma I get an unusually high reading on the meter. I didn't do my search for truth with fear and trembling like the good book mandates, but a thorough and fearless quest for the absolute truth by every means available. I think that if every human actually did his own study into what's truth and what's fiction the church would have serious problems proving their case for eternal bliss.......or blisters.

Then you understand what I am trying to say. If we never discuss sensitive issues people will never get exposed to ideas that might differ from their own.

 

[Bob Wright]

Two things one should not argue/discuss...religion and politics. Nobody ever wins or changes the other person's beliefs.

What you say is true, but there are many who lose. And that loss is eternal.

Bob Wright

 

[Garth69]

Then you understand what I am trying to say. If we never discuss sensitive issues people will never get exposed to ideas that might differ from their own.

I understand exactly what you are saying. The superstitious (as I refer to bible thumpers) get fighting mad when challenged on their beliefs. I think it's because they know they are doubtful of the validity of their religious indoctrination but fearful of accepting the probable results of applying logic and reason to the claims made by the church. Eternal damnation is a mighty good motivator used by the Kings, emperors, pied pipers, and other charlatans who seek power and control over the masses. Incidentally, I'm a friend of Bills too.

 

[Newtire]

Nowhere in the Ten Commandments does it ever say that one must attend 'church'. It says to 'remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy.'

"Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Here's what I heard. It's in the bible here:
(Matthew 6:5-8)

Jesus taught, "When you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men … but when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your father who is unseen."

 

[jgt]

I found that messengers come to those that seek. They themselves may not appear to be one you would seek out. The message speaks for its self and can be recognized by the way it rings true. I say this because that is how I was made aware of lexicons and the dictionaries that help with Greek and Hebrew words. For instance the word Kill in the commandment "thou shall not kill" actually translates as our word murder. Many of the words in the Bible can have many meanings and have to be interpreted by their spelling. For instance the word life, I found at least four meanings. In the scripture about blessed is one that lays down his life for another can mean one that dies so another may live or it can mean one that puts his own life on hold in order to care for another as my sister did for my mother in her last years.
Another thing I was not aware of is there are people that study the scriptures for a life time to be sure the information published is correct to the best of available knowledge. These people specialize in only one book each. Of the current printed Bibles I believe the NAS and the NIV are the most accurate. Even those have some flaws. That is why we pray before we study so the message we get from that study will be the message we were meant to get from the Holy Spirit. I believe there is so much to learn, any one using any version of the Bible studying with pure intent for the truth, will get truth. I do not believe the KJB is a very accurate interpretation, but it will not keep one from finding the truth in the long run. The spiritual path is a solitary path on which no one can keep me from or do for me. Not saying it has to be traveled alone, but only I can make the final decision on my thoughts and actions.

 

[Snake Pleskin]

I am fine with whatever being discussed or debated. Many are not open minded enough to question their personal beliefs. Some people are. While as a child I was taught Christianity, right from wrong, etc. I still made bad choices. I found myself at a place where change was necessary. I sought help to learn how to change. In all honesty I just wanted to stop drinking but I was taught a program of recovery based on spiritual principles that encouraged one to seek spiritual growth though it did not try to tell a person what to believe in After much discussion, arguments, deep thought, spiritual seeking etc. I found myself wanting to be a Christian. I do have a much different perception of Christianity today than I did when I reached the point of knowing something had to change or I wasn't going to make it.

If I had been unwilling to question my beliefs or have open discussions with others I would have never learned anything. I believe open, honest discussion & debate is healthy. I don't think arguing, getting angry or belittling people with differing opinions helps anyone.

Thank you. so many are willing to talk, but never willing to listen.

 

[Snake Pleskin]

I understand exactly what you are saying. The superstitious (as I refer to bible thumpers) get fighting mad when challenged on their beliefs. I think it's because they know they are doubtful of the validity of their religious indoctrination but fearful of accepting the probable results of applying logic and reason to the claims made by the church. Eternal damnation is a mighty good motivator used by the Kings, emperors, pied pipers, and other charlatans who seek power and control over the masses. Incidentally, I'm a friend of Bills too.

many follow blindly without ever questioning. To me , a life without questioning is not a life, just an existence

 

[harley08]

I was raised in the Church. One day I realized I could not do all the things I was told I had to do as a Christian. At first I listened to the voice in my head that told me I couldn't be a "good Christian" so I might as well be a good "sinner". After that, I was a good sinner. I was not happy though, so I told that voice "thanks very much for sharing," and decided to try again. I studied the scriptures for myself rather than depend on what I was told. I questioned my belief system to see if I believed it because I was taught that or I believed it because I had l excepted it. Most of all, I learned the proper use of will was to turn it over to the Almighty whom I choose to call God.
Once I started down that path, things got better. I know I am a sinner. I know I will never see the Pearly Gates without Grace, but I can look back and see he has blessed my life. The main realization I came to, is God is so much more than I can wrap my mind around.
My main obstacle was the picture of Heaven painted in my mind by the ole "Hellfire and Damnation, pulpit pounding, ice water drinkin preachers" made me not want to go there. I just didn't want to go to Hell. Today, I want to go to Heaven even if it is in the lowliest place there. I would like to see what it is like living in the absence of evil.
Anyway, since others were confessing, I thought I would too.

If you ask the Lord for forgiveness, he will forgive you!

 

[Selena]

We are all born with the taint of the original sin and therefore fall short of heaven. Thanks to the overwhelming grace of our Lord Jesus Christ we are still eligible to admittance to Paradise. In the meantime I try to live in such a way as to be a good ambassador for Christ. Sometimes I fall short but I will always try.

 

[Bob Wright]

We are all born with the taint of the original sin and therefore fall short of heaven. Thanks to the overwhelming grace of our Lord Jesus Christ we are still eligible to admittance to Paradise. In the meantime I try to live in such a way as to be a good ambassador for Christ. Sometimes I fall short but I will always try.

Ma'am, God doesn't reward success so much as effort. Above all things he rewards "Faith."

Bob Wright

 

[Garth69]

many follow blindly without ever questioning. To me , a life without questioning is not a life, just an existence

the blind leading the blind and none of them have the courage to want to see.

 

[Selena]

Ma'am, God doesn't reward success so much as effort. Above all things he rewards "Faith."

Bob Wright

While there are many differences in our denominations, this is a true statement for both of us.

 

[Bob Wright]

Here's what I heard. It's in the bible here:
(Matthew 6:5-8)

Jesus taught, "When you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men … but when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your father who is unseen."

But Jesus also said "My Father's house shal lbe a house of prayer."

Bob Wright

 

[40nascar]

We are all born with the taint of the original sin and therefore fall short of heaven. Thanks to the overwhelming grace of our Lord Jesus Christ we are still eligible to admittance to Paradise. In the meantime I try to live in such a way as to be a good ambassador for Christ. Sometimes I fall short but I will always try.

The Morman church does not believe in original Sin. And they Also believe that Jesus the Christ and Lucifer ( Satan, the devil) are brothers. And that Jesus is the result of physical sex between Elohim and Mary. ( Elohim being a physical manifestation of the Current Heavenly Father). Don't fall for their unbiblical hog-wash.

 

[Newtire]

But Jesus also said "My Father's house shal lbe a house of prayer."

Bob Wright

"Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you." (Luke 17:21)