Opening a can of worms

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Mobuck

Hawkeye
Joined
Dec 25, 2007
Messages
7,592
Location
missouri
Right up front-I don't attend church services. Dad said the church was infested with "Saturday night sinners/Sunday morning saints". Regardless, that's a personal choice and not up for discussion or judgement.
What I'd like to know is 'What should kids learn by going to church?'.
I learned my daily life needs from immediate family and often enforced physically. I learned to be considerate of others if they deserved it. I learned to appreciate what I had or was offered but not to expect more than I deserved. I learned that even the smallest display of gratitude was worth more than a handful of money to many folks(and if it wasn't, maybe you needed to be looking for other folks). Most importantly, I learned if you wanted something, you should be prepared to put in the effort to get that something.
I'm seeing that the simple action of showing up on Sunday morning doesn't equate to absorbing what I thought was 'the Christian way'. Young folks who seldom missed a seat in the pew, who supposedly had a righteous Christian raising (as Grandma used to called it), and in my perspective had a far too sheltered childhood simply didn't absorb the ideas that I thought were part of the program.
 

carvertim

Bearcat
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
14
Young folks who seldom missed a seat in the pew, who supposedly had a righteous Christian raising (as Grandma used to called it), and in my perspective had a far too sheltered childhood simply didn't absorb the ideas that I thought were part of the program.
It is kind of like the old saying, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink." I like to add, even if you hold their head under water. The point is just because the butt is in the pew, doen't mean the spit\rit is in the heart. There are many variables to church attendance and it's effect on a person's life. I was raised in a Christian home with an older brother, and ayounger sister. Neither of them go to church any longer, for a variety of reasons or excuses. Plain and simple they were there for the wrong reason. I learned early on from grandma and mom and dad, church is where you walk with God, and hopefully learn to carry him with you. Church for them was much more than Saunday morning, church was to set the tone for your whole life everyday. Your hopes, your dreams, your way of life all derived from that brief time in the presence of God. It stuck wiyh me. So mich so that I have been a Lutheran minister for 46 years, and have enjoyed sharing Jesus, and helping those in need everyday of my life. It ain't for everyone, but there is something to be said for the realization that the world is about more than you, and about more than just what you see. To my brother and sister's situation, I believe and hope that what grandma and mom and dad taught us is still there, and I think it is, they have just go walkabout. Sorry for the long reply, but wind a preacher us, and you get a sermon.
 

Mike J

Hunter
Joined
Aug 5, 2007
Messages
3,615
Location
GA
There is a big difference between attending church and leading a Christian life. As has been said people go to church for many reasons. Everyone isn't there because they are seeking Christ though that may be subject to change. I believe the purpose of the church is not only to convert people (to lead them to Christ) but also to disciple them (to teach them to follow Christ). It would be nice if when a person receives salvation they were immediately perfect but that is not how it works. There is an ongoing process of change that takes place. Christians are imperfect people trying to serve a perfect God. Everyone is at a different point of growth & everyone misses it at one point or another.
 
Joined
Nov 17, 2009
Messages
10,554
Location
Webster, MD.
Nowhere in the Ten Commandments does it ever say that one must attend 'church'. It says to 'remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy.'

"Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
 
Joined
Apr 2, 2014
Messages
1,866
What kid or kids action opened this particular can of worms. One particular kid that you wanted to strangle or an accumulation
of recent events that required multiple chokings.
I have a different perspective than most on this forum.
 

contender

Ruger Guru
Joined
Sep 18, 2002
Messages
21,792
Location
Lake Lure NC USA
"There is a big difference between attending church and leading a Christian life."

"Nowhere in the Ten Commandments does it ever say that one must attend 'church'. It says to 'remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy.'"

These two statements are powerful.

Mobuck has said a lot, yet, much of his post is easily explained in the top quote. I grew up in the South,, and the Southern Baptist faith is prevalent here. Yet,, I've always seen & still see a LOT of people who claim to be Christian, yet, they do not act that way outside of Church. Sadly,, many of them are quite crooked & lead an exact opposite life. Yet, they use their church attendance as a way to proclaim their "goodness."
And I also see a lot of people who never go to church,, yet,, are the most faithful & best believing people you could hope for.

I know that there are many who do go to church, and are very good & faithful AND try to live the kind of life a Christian should live. Our own Bob Wright here is a great example,, yet, I've never met the man. I can see through his years of postings, he's a devout Christian, and tries to live a good Christian life.

I don't often attend church. Yet,, on the other hand, if you look at my second quote, I attend church daily. My Church is all around me. It's when I look at the many natural wonders I see daily. It's when I hear of how prayers are answered. It's when I see the innocence of a child. It's when I stop often & thank the Good Lord for my blessings. Or when I take time to bow my head & offer prayers for those in need or suffering.

I'm not perfect,, yet I have a strong Faith in God, Jesus & eternity.

I do know that Church is a place to stop daily life, take the time to listen to scripture, study w/o interruption the Bible, sing the praises of our Lord, and dedicate time to worship. It's also a place to learn the teachings of the bible, and gain knowledge that's in it.

Lastly, I do not judge people by their attendance or lack of attendance to a church. Judgement is not mine. I just choose to look at a person & how they are every day & how they live their lives. Again, judgement is not mine.
And in the end, only they & the Good Lord will be the ones who meet & then judgement will be passed.
 

CoalCrackerAl

Single-Sixer
Joined
Aug 15, 2022
Messages
161
Location
Coal TWP Pa.
I always enjoy the sermon. The singing i don't like. One day it dawned on me. The hymns are to fill the hour at church. My pastor and i are also good friends. We do a lot of one on one discussions. I also heard of some churches getting upset with those who can't afford to donate a certain amount of their income.
 

Bob Wright

Hawkeye
Joined
Jun 24, 2004
Messages
6,525
Location
Memphis, TN USA
I have made an attempt to keep my mouth shut on these questions, as the posters have already made up their minds and aren't likely to change that.

But first of all, the Bible is taught, or should be taught, at church. One should know that the laws are God's laws and are not subject to man's interpretations. And that God is real, a loving, Triune God. It helps to know why one believes as they do. Without God, there is no final authority.

The Bible teaches to share the Gospel with everyone. As the Bible teaches, the watchman is charged with giving the alarm. Those who fail to heed their blood is on their hands. Those who fail to give the alarm, the blood is on their hands.

Yes, God gave the Sabbath to the Jews as a day of worship. When the church was formed, Sabbath gathering was prohibited, so the church began to worship on the day or Resurrection. No day of worship was given to the Church. Some denominations do worship on Saturday, while most others continue to worship of the Lord's Day.

What do children learn? They learn discipline for one thing. To sit still and pay attention to their teacher and pastor as the Word of God is dispensed from classroom and pulpit. Church attendance is in obedience to Scripture to gather together for the edification of fellow Christians and the study of God's /Word. As the Bible teaches, "Study to show thyself worthy....."

The Apostle Paul was the thirteenth apostle called by the Lord Jesus, and was probably the most educated in Scripture. After his conversion, he was one of the most effective apostles, having been the penman of thirteen, fourteen if he wrote the book of Hebrews, of the books of the new Testament.

The role of the Christian is to not only be saved himself, but to share the Gospel with others around him. He is not judged by his success, but by his own faithfulness. As Christians stand before the Judgement Seat of Christ, the are given rewards according to their faithfulness.

Bob Wright
 

toysoldier

Hunter
Joined
Aug 23, 2006
Messages
3,332
Location
Hutchinson, KS USA
If a child attends a church which has a set dogma, the child will learn that dogma--as interpreted by the priest/minister/preacher/rabbi. If it is a stand-alone church, the child will hear whatever interpretation the church leaders make of whatever they hold to be "sacred' texts.
 

protoolman

Hunter
Joined
Oct 15, 2001
Messages
2,167
Location
ND
Well yes as a retired policeman and now retired municipal judge I believe based on many observations kids as a whole should go to church. I met many scary, anchorless kids with NO morals values that are destined for prison. These kids are really bad, no sense of right and wrong etc. We all got our moral compass somewhere. For some it wasn't church, it was boy scouts, a teacher who mentored you, maybe just a good parent. But kids don't have any of these influences in far too many cases!

As for the idea there are hypocrits in church, no kidding! The thing to remember and my ministers point it out every Sunday is we are all sinners. If you wash the caddy and park it in the front row sit in the front pew and teach Sunday school good for you for effort but pride is a sin just like anything else. The drunk who only gets to church one a year and cheated on his wife last night is no better or worse sitting in the pew. In the end you will all be judged and found lacking. Luckily someone paid the bill for you and died on the cross. In the end if you consider yourself a Christian it comes down to your personal relationship with God. Not anyone else's. If you find that on your own good for you, that's all that matters. Going to church reinforces, teaches and provides support. If it's not for you I certainly wouldn't disparage the people who find it comforting and necessary for their journey.
I have a sign in my shop that I think sums up my thoughts. It says " It's better to go fishing and think about God than to go to church and think about fishing!"
 

Wvfarrier

Single-Sixer
Joined
May 21, 2017
Messages
164
What GOD wants is in your heart and mind; by what you do every day you will be a good person...or not.
 

Colonialgirl

Hawkeye
Joined
Dec 7, 2008
Messages
7,894
Location
Wesley Chapel, Florida
One attends church to learn about Jesus, and GOD and the way the Disciples spread the word. It does NO ONE any good if they Hear the WORD, Fail to believe it, Fail to repent their sins, fail to confess their sins and then be Baptized (FULLY IMMERSED, NOT sprinkled) and after baptism go on their way rejoicing and following the word of God in their behavior. The Sunday and other church meetings are to strengthen your belief and to offer guidance in your daily life.
 

Bob Wright

Hawkeye
Joined
Jun 24, 2004
Messages
6,525
Location
Memphis, TN USA
As to hypocrites in church, my former pastor would go this route when someone did no attend church because of the hypocrites there.

"Well I sure wouldn't shop at ________, the place is full of hypocrites!"


And, another one of my late pastor's comments:

"Going to church doesn't make you a Christian anymore than sitting in your carport makes you an automobile."

Bob Wright
 

azleite

Single-Sixer
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
329
Location
North Texas
There is a big difference between attending church and leading a Christian life. As has been said people go to church for many reasons. Everyone isn't there because they are seeking Christ though that may be subject to change. I believe the purpose of the church is not only to convert people (to lead them to Christ) but also to disciple them (to teach them to follow Christ). It would be nice if when a person receives salvation they were immediately perfect but that is not how it works. There is an ongoing process of change that takes place. Christians are imperfect people trying to serve a perfect God. Everyone is at a different point of growth & everyone misses it at one point or another.
Wow Man, Thank you….that is a description of….me
 

Bob Wright

Hawkeye
Joined
Jun 24, 2004
Messages
6,525
Location
Memphis, TN USA
Just a question for Bob. Where is it specified that Sunday is "The Lord's Day"? I was taught that ALL days were the Lord's day.

The early church was prohibited from Sabbath worship under Jewish law. They then set aside the first day of the week as the day for their assembling and bringing in tithes. I believe it was the Apostle John who used the term "The Lord's Day", this while on the island of Patmos.

"The Lord's Day" is in reference to the day of Christ's resurrection.

Incidentally, no day was set aside as a day of worship for the Church. But the "first Day of the week" is most often referred to in Scripture.

Bob Wright
 
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BROKENBEAR

Single-Sixer
Joined
Jun 25, 2016
Messages
113
Mobuck ..I agree that many folks have been disillusioned by a few church members and even a few clergy... but know there has been only one perfect person walk this earth and that is Jesus Christ and I will call him my savior proudly

I thank God every night ..I also ask each day for forgiveness for in the purest form I sin literally by the minute for I am human

..so for us to use the failings and sins of others as a basis of measure of whether a church has value for me to attain eternal life ..to learn of Gods gifts to us ..to understand Gods conditions of our receiving eternal life ..is like using the few bad cops to declare all police bad and of no value ..

..we immerse ourselves in church to learn, to reinforce and to give and receive support in our journey to grow our Christian character and beliefs

Good deeds alone cannot give us eternal life..for only the acceptance in your heart and in your declarations of Jesus Christ as your savior can so save you

Please.. if you have had a thirst in your life for redemption but felt denied by your fellow man that has failed you ..or if you have turned to God and he has not seemed to answer you .. know that God does not always answer in ways we expect or even recognize his answer sometimes

So what I am saying is find another church ..I go to a "Cowboy Church" and have been for 15+ years after 50 years as a Baptist ..nothing wrong with Baptist ..just like the Cowboy way better

I have attended Cowboy Churches all over the US of A and they have some very common threads
Non denominational ..come as you are ..voluntary donation in a feed bucket (no pledges etc) ..common man life tied to the Bible Sermons and the mentality to saddle their own horse and stomp their own snakes

I can tell you are thirsty old son so find you some water somewhere somehow ..

JOHN 3:16

Bear
 

KIR

Blackhawk
Joined
Mar 2, 2022
Messages
528
Two things one should not argue/discuss...religion and politics. Nobody ever wins or changes the other person's beliefs.
 
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