OM Blackhawk .357 cylinder lock-up

[Joey]

I searched this, and couldn't find anything on it. I just bought an OM BH .357, the cylinder is not locking up on all chambers. Sometimes it locks up on 1, then2, By the ser # it was born in '65, has a xr3red grip frame. I have it's sister, born in '60, xr3 gf. I swapped out the cylinders, did the same thing. The cylinder from the problem gun locked up fine in the older frame. So I ruled out the cylinder. I then looked at the cylinder latch on both guns, appeared to be the same, with no excessive wear on the latch. Which took me to the pawl. On the older gun, which works fine, the hammer comes all the way back, beyond the final notch and pushes the pawl way up. On the problem gun, the hammer doesn't go as far back and the pawl is not extended as far. The back of the hammer seems to be contacting the grip frame. Has anyone else had this problem? In my mind, it has three possibilities, the pawl, hammer or the hammer strut. I think I have everything but the strut. Some one had been in the gun, as the grip frame screw heads were messed up, and one of the screws was the wrong length. I guess bubba lost one when he took it apart, or it was lost and replaced with whatever. This revolver is destined to be sent off for a conversion to .41 spcl, but I would like to have it working properly before I send it. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[Randyzzz]

Does the hammer in its rearward position engage the trigger a bit before it can't move any further? And then does the cylinder require a bit more rotation for the latch to fall in the notch? If so, I'd say the pawl is a bit too short. If you have another pawl, swap it and see if it changes anything.

Now if the hammer won't go back far enough to engage the trigger, you have other problems.

 

[G2]

Sounds to me like it's full of gunk.

I would check the cylinder latch spring. Hooked correctly? If bubba has been in there and doesn't know how it works and where it latches,,, have seen all sorts of "methods".

Me, I would gut, clean and inspect every part.

 

[Johnnu2]

If Bubba was in there, it could be ANYTHING. She may have even installed a hammer from a Single Six ??? who knows. I would recommend a DEEP CLEAN (especially the spring loaded plunger on the hammer). IIRC that plunger actuates the cyl lock/latch(?) .. It's been years since I've been in mine, but that would be the first thing I would look at (beyond the hammer being totally wrong &/or the pawl being wrong or BOTH ..??? The other alternative (if you are planning on a custom gun/conversion) is to leave it alone and have the custom gunsmith fix it correctly.
IMHO,
J.

 

[Joey]

Does the hammer in its rearward position engage the trigger a bit before it can't move any further? And then does the cylinder require a bit more rotation for the latch to fall in the notch? If so, I'd say the pawl is a bit too short. If you have another pawl, swap it and see if it changes anything.

Now if the hammer won't go back far enough to engage the trigger, you have other problems.

The trigger engages after the final notch. I do have to rotate the cylinder a bit for the latch to lock. I thought I had another pawl, can't find it, will look further tomorrow. The hammer goes back far enough to engage the trigger, but has very little travel after trigger engages, My other OMs have several k of travel after the trigger engages, which pushes the pawl further up.

 

[Joey]

Sounds to me like it's full of gunk.

I would check the cylinder latch spring. Hooked correctly? If bubba has been in there and doesn't know how it works and where it latches,,, have seen all sorts of "methods".

Me, I would gut, clean and inspect every part.

Hey G2. How ya doin?
I tore it down, gave it a cleaning, looked at all the part, springs looked good I did notice it has a NM cylinder base pin in it, swapped it out with my "ugly hammer" .327, made no difference. All springs were installed properly. I am going to look for my OM parts, I know I have them somewhere. Or order me some if I can find them on line. I will trip over my parts when I no longer need them!

 

[Joey]

If Bubba was in there, it could be ANYTHING. She may have even installed a hammer from a Single Six ??? who knows. I would recommend a DEEP CLEAN (especially the spring loaded plunger on the hammer). IIRC that plunger actuates the cyl lock/latch(?) .. It's been years since I've been in mine, but that would be the first thing I would look at (beyond the hammer being totally wrong &/or the pawl being wrong or BOTH ..??? The other alternative (if you are planning on a custom gun/conversion) is to leave it alone and have the custom gunsmith fix it correctly.
IMHO,
J.

Good thought on the hammer. I have an OM hammer, I will swap it out. I did not take the plunger/spring out of the hammer, another good thought.
I just hate the thought of sending it off without it working properly. May have to.

 

[Randyzzz]

The trigger engages after the final notch. I do have to rotate the cylinder a bit for the latch to lock. I thought I had another pawl, can't find it, will look further tomorrow. The hammer goes back far enough to engage the trigger, but has very little travel after trigger engages, My other OMs have several k of travel after the trigger engages, which pushes the pawl further up.

Sorta sounds like someone's been in there. I'm still betting on a short pawl.

 

[Joey]

After finding the NM base pin, I suspect this gun was converted at some point. Bubba decided to un-convert it, no telling what he did. I am going to try to find an OM parts kit and purchase it and swap out the parts. I have two more OM .357, may tear one down and swap parts, see what happens.

 

[Randyzzz]

If it has been converted it will have the "R" stamped underneath the grip frame. But that is a plausible explanation.

I purchased a Single Six once that for all purposes fired perfectly. But every once in a while it had a flier- that off shot that there is no explanation for. As I was fiddling with it, I noticed that the cylinder would not lock up properly unless I cocked it rapidly. If I cocked it slowly it just wouldn't make it. So I replaced the pawl, and it locked up like it should. And the random flier went away.

Heck, my Bearcat would not lock up at all when I purchased it. It had been converted. I put all the original parts back in- and besides now working properly I got a nice trigger pull.

 

[Joey]

Thanks much. The pawl may be where I need to start.

 

[Joey]

I just found my parts. I have 2 OM hammers, 2 pawls, 2 triggers, trigger return spring/plunger, various other parts. Only thing I don't have is a main spring assy, but I have 3 other OM that I can swap out if it comes down to that. Guess I know what I'm doing today......

 

[G2]

If everything is clean and you didn't clean the hammer plunger & spring, makes me think as the gun rests the plunger works it way down then the next operation it's SLOW and gunked up,

I would pull the hammer and physically push the plunger in, it should snap right back. Old grease / lube candidate get that assembly gunked up.

 

[454Redhawk]

Sounds like the pawl is a bit short and needs to be stretched. Heat it red hot and hit the shank with a cross peen hammer. It normally doesn't take very much stretch to do it. If you aren't capable with a torch and hammer there are usually a number of pawls for sale on eBay also.

 

[Joey]

I just found my parts. I have 2 OM hammers, 2 pawls, 2 triggers, trigger return spring/plunger, various other parts. Only thing I don't have is a main spring assy, but I have 3 other OM that I can swap out if it comes down to that. Guess I know what I'm doing today......

If Bubba was in there, it could be ANYTHING. She may have even installed a hammer from a Single Six ??? who knows. I would recommend a DEEP CLEAN (especially the spring loaded plunger on the hammer). IIRC that plunger actuates the cyl lock/latch(?) .. It's been years since I've been in mine, but that would be the first thing I would look at (beyond the hammer being totally wrong &/or the pawl being wrong or BOTH ..??? The other alternative (if you are planning on a custom gun/conversion) is to leave it alone and have the custom gunsmith fix it correctly.
IMHO,
J.

Hammer was it!! Took it apart after finding where I had hidden my parts from myself, pulled the hammer and compared it, not even close. The pawl was same size, but looked like it had some wear on it after I put it with a new one, reassembled it, locks up tighter than Dick's hat band, whoever Dick is!
I did check the hammer spring/plunger, oiled them up, and it works fine.
Gotta love Bubba, screws up a good gun, then passes it on for someone else to fix.
Can anyone tell what revolver the short hammer is off of? Thanks for everyone's help. It is greatly appreciated.

 

[Randyzzz]

Maybe this will help in identification.

 

[Joey]

Thanks much, Randy. According to the chart, it is a super single six. Gotta love computers!

 

[Randyzzz]

Hmmm. I could use a Super Single Six hammer…

 

[Joey]

Anybody need a hammer for a Ruger Super Single Six? Up for grabs.

 

[Joey]

Randy,send me a pm, and it's yours