Now just suppose, OMG the update post 31

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Joined
Apr 2, 2014
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The handgun classes in Tennessee advise to leave the scene "if you feel in danger of retaliation and notify the police that you have done so." It is legal to go to a "safe place." It is considered probable that in any robbery or kidnapping attempt, the perpetrator may have companions close by.

Bob Wright
Here in Michigan it's taught that it's ok to go to a safe place then notify police. Not that I'm suggesting or recommending the idea of just
going about your business as usual, just wondering if an actual law was on the books that you had to report shooting someone?
I guy attacks you with a knife at a gas station, witnesses, good video...etc. You shoot him, already paid for your fuel with CC at the pump,
get in your car and drive across the street and get a burger. Looks bad, but is it a crime?
 
Joined
May 1, 2022
Messages
587
Location
New Jersey
In the situation described by the OP, I have no problem the lady leaving. She was threatened with a weapon, took action to defend herself, and was successful. If the wanted to press charges she would have stuck around and probably would have caught crap and thes days been sued for defending herself. She handled the situation the best way possible. Since she didn't want any more involvement, and the dirtbag was suitably stopped, I would have no reason to stay either. As for the guy with the knife, he chose to put himself in that situation so can deal with whatever consequences there are.
 

Firsttimegrampa

Single-Sixer
Joined
Aug 22, 2004
Messages
339
Location
Havelock,NC USA
You were walking out of your local hometown meat market with the dreams of cast iron cooking filets for dinner.

Let's set the stage, this small southern town meat market has been in business for years. The clientele is from the well to do, to the folks that use their Govt food cards. Regardless the meat and pork products are top drawer.

Now just suppose you were walking out of the Market and you were suddenly confronted with a OH CHIT moment right in front of you. Right there a very young man was screaming to a 40ish year old women to give it up, give it the F up B !!!! Holding a good size knife. Now suppose this lady started reaching into her pocket book/purse/bag. And all the while "you" thinking, should "you" make a move to stop this. Suddenly the 40ish year old women produces a flip/blackjack and makes a substantial blow to the side of this young man's head. Let's say as he was going down and she then got a solid lick to the back of this young man's head as he was eating pavement. Then to top it off let's say this 40ish year old women bent over and collected said knife and placed one more maximum blow to said young man's head.

Now let's say this 40ish year old women proceeded to her vehicle gets gets in and drives away at a very normal pace, as if nothing at all happened.

Now let's just say someone standing behind "you" speaks up and says do you see that !!!! And let's say your remark back was "you" didn't see nothing at all and proceeded to your truck to drive away.

What kind of person would just walk away on both sides of this story ?
Good thing he choose the weaker sex to rob , it might not have lived to hobble away next time .
 
Joined
Dec 3, 2021
Messages
595
Location
Georgia
In this area the local PD would probably refer to the incident as NHI...No human was injured!
I'm thinking it was combinations of things, having a demon seed for a son a severe case of change of life hot flashes along with PMS. That would be my suggestion for a legal defense if she should get charged for her actions.
 

Bob Wright

Hawkeye
Joined
Jun 24, 2004
Messages
7,330
Location
Memphis, TN USA
Discretion being the better part of valor, I think the best course of action were I to witness this would be to keep on walking. If questioned: "Wasn't involved and don't care to get dragged into it, thanks."

I'm sorry, I just can't go along with the "don't want to get involved" mind set. You were a witness, and your testimony might be of great help if any trials/suits were to come up.

Maybe I live with a "Perfect World" mindset, but if enough folks embraced that thinking, it just might come about. At least pretty close to it.

Bob Wright
 
Joined
Dec 3, 2021
Messages
595
Location
Georgia
I'm sorry, I just can't go along with the "don't want to get involved" mind set. You were a witness, and your testimony might be of great help if any trials/suits were to come up.

Maybe I live with a "Perfect World" mindset, but if enough folks embraced that thinking, it just might come about. At least pretty close to it.

Bob Wright
Bob I admire what is in your heart, you Sir are a better thinking man ...

Sometimes the Good Lord giveth and sometimes he taketh....I standing with the Good Lord sometimes postpoveth, Amen.

Now if you were to look at it this way, being a law abiding gun citation, carrying a whatever for PP. Just suppose this litter chit bird had lunged and make a blow to 40ish year old Women. The Mother, but you don't know that !!!!! And suddenly you felt compelled to make a difference in the out come of what you are wittinsing. And your actions were fatal.
 
Joined
Mar 29, 2017
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1,540
Location
Idaho
Answering the question asked, many people in the past and present will walk away, right or wrong many will.
I did not read that we ever knew what started this sounds like a hold up, but until facts are known it could have been a pimp and a hooker.
I even once took a call that came in as attempted robbery, but it was over a pimp not getting paid by a John. The John beat the pimp. The pimp claimed victim.
In this case someone phoned police that seen something otherwise police would not have arrived. What did the 911 caller see and say?
 
Joined
Jan 26, 2009
Messages
2,223
Location
Ragnarok Farm, Iowa
I've not written about this before, but here is a situation I found myself in about a year ago.

One of my dogs had a broken tooth that was preventing him from wanting to do the bite work for schutzhund.
This is very bad, because he must do the bite work before he can go on to compete in the conformance (show) ring.

My dogs compete in SV (German) shows rather than AKC. They are MUCH more demanding, and schutzhund training and titling is required for the dogs to compete for the top spots in our sport. Currently, my dog Lex, the dog in question, is third in the U.S.

Schutzhund is comprised of three disciplines: tracking, obedience, and protection. It is very similar to police dog training. Our dogs are well rounded, personal protection dogs after their training is complete, that are fine pet dogs and good citizens with strangers and other animals. But, they are also capable defenders when asked to do so.

As I said, Lex had a broken tooth that made him not want to engage in bite work training. He was already highly titled, but would not perform at trials. Something had to be done.

We learned of a doggie dentist with good references down in Lenexa Kansas. My wife made an appointment for me to take Lex in at 3:00 in the afternoon. I was good with that, because it's almost a 4 hour drive from our house.

When I got to the appointment, all they did was look at the dog and explain what the options were. I was so pissed at my wife! We already knew the options, I was there to have the tooth fixed. But, my wife had made an appointment for a consultation! The people that could fox the tooth had already gone home for the day. I would need to come back tomorrow, they could get me in about 8:00 A.M. :mad:

So, I call my wife and tell her to find us a motel room. I have no clothes, medicine, dog food or bowls, dog crate, even a toothbrush. But I wasn't going to drive another 8 hours and spend the gas money just to come back the next morning. The cost was about a wash. I bought a small bag of dog food, a couple of "shareware" containers for dog food and water, and settled in for the night.

Our appointment was at 8:00 the next morning. I set the alarm for 6, so I could get the dog out to do his business early enough that I could hit the free breakfast buffet and still make our appointment time. I decided to take the dog out the side door, rather than the close route through the lobby, to be considerate to early breakfast folks that might not appreciate an 85 pound German Shepherd strutting through their breakfast area.

As we reentered the motel, all of a sudden, a woman began screaming, as though she was being murdered.
HELP!!! HELP!!! SOMEONE PLEASE HELP ME!!! GET OFF ME!!! I DON'T KNOW YOU!!! SOMEBODY PLEASE HELP!!!

There were two other men in the hallway walking towards the lobby and the buffet. We all heard it.
One of the men said, "Well! Sounds like someone is having a bad morning!". Both kept walking towards the lobby.
Briefly, I considered doing the same thing. Not my business. Not my fight. Those thought were almost immediately replaced by "What if this were my wife, or my daughter." I knew I couldn't walk away.

The motel was shaped like an L and three stories high. We were about halfway down the long leg by the middle exit door and stairwell. The screaming was coming from upstairs. Lex and I charged up to the second floor. By now, the screaming had stopped, and I looked all up and down the halls, but there was nothing to be seen. Then, the screaming began again. Naturally, it was up on the third floor! So we ran up the stairwell and rounded the corner.

There, about 30 feet away, was a naked woman on the floor against the wall with a large man holding her down and trying to cover her mouth. His back was to us, and he didn't know we were there. I pushed back my
coat to expose my Walther PPQ in it's retention holster, and yelled "WHAT THE F IS GOING ON!!!!"

The guy turned around, surprised, and looked at us. Big cammo clad dude, gun on hip, BIG German Shepherd on a leash standing VERY alert, with a no nonsense demeanor. Not growling or anything. He didn't need to.

I said, "LET HER GO! Get OFF that woman! He stood up, dragging the woman up with him. He said, "This is not what you think! She's taken an overdose of bad drugs! She's just tripping out! She knows me! We've been dating for two years!" Meanwhile he tells the woman, "Ashley! Shut up! You need to cover up!"

Of course, I have NO IDEA what the real story is. Is this a pimp/whore, a whore/john, a domestic dispute, a bad drug deal gone wrong, or what. Only that this woman is still screaming that she doesn't know this guy.
I take enough time to look at them both. He seems sober, and strangely normal. She doesn't. And by now, he has let her go and is standing a few feet away, but strangely she has not run away but is still standing about 10 feet away screaming at him to get the F away from her. She is @ 32-35, blonde, shaved, tattooed and pierced. Has the body of a stripper, and the mouth to match. She looks like trouble.

By this time, there are about five or six doors further up the hallway that had opened with people peeking out.
I point to two, and say "Call 911! NOW!" I see several people moving to do so. But my main attention is on the guy. He says "There's no need for the cops! She's just trippin'! She'll be Ok!"I My response is, "That's fine. The cops are on the way. They will make sure she gets the help she needs." All the while, the woman is standing in the hall screaming at the guy, making no effort to get away or even cover herself.

I tell the guy, "I think you should leave". He looks at me and says "You think I should leave?!!?"
I say "Yeah, I don't think she's going to stop screaming until you do. Besides, the cops are coming. I'm doing
you a favor. Just walk away!" He looks at me, looks at her, and says "FINE!!! F YOU ASHLEY!!!!" Then he looks at me and points his finger and says "AND F YOU TOO!!!", at which point Lex tensed and gave the most menacing growl I have ever heard ANY of my dogs make! (If I had let him go and said the word, Lex would have messed him up.) Dude intelligently decides to walk past us on the far side of the hall, and as he does so the woman yells at him "YEAH JEREMY! GET THE F OUT OF HERE!!!" and proceeds to follow him attempting to strike him! I say "Oh, so you DO know him!!!"

I look at the guy, and say "Look, I'm sorry if I misjudged the situation, but please realize I'm only trying to do the right thing. But I still think you should go. She's not going to stop until you do." So he goes down the side stairs, and after a minute I follow. I want no part of the crazy druggy chick.

The guy was at the bottom of the stairs when we got to the main floor, and I again said I was sorry. I even gave him one of my business cards and told him I didn't know what story Ashley might be telling the cops, but I would testify to what I had seen. Then we proceeded to walk towards our room down by the lobby. By the time we rounded the corner towards the lobby we could see several people standing up in the breakfast area looking at some disturbance in the lobby. Apparently the druggie chick had run out the side door, around the outside and into the lobby, still buck nekkid. Screaming how she needed water NOW!!!

I just walked past the breakfast folks, told the counter help the police had been called, and walked outside to wait for them to arrive, which they did about 45 seconds later. I told them "She's in the lobby. You can't miss her."
 
Joined
Dec 3, 2021
Messages
107
Location
OK
I saw a guy shoot another in broad daylight in downtown Memphis. I was so surprised that when a responding cop asked me who did it, I wasn't sure even though the shooter was still standing there along with a few others. Was one of the weirdest situations I have ever seen.
 
Joined
Dec 3, 2021
Messages
595
Location
Georgia
I've not written about this before, but here is a situation I found myself in about a year ago.

One of my dogs had a broken tooth that was preventing him from wanting to do the bite work for schutzhund.
This is very bad, because he must do the bite work before he can go on to compete in the conformance (show) ring.

My dogs compete in SV (German) shows rather than AKC. They are MUCH more demanding, and schutzhund training and titling is required for the dogs to compete for the top spots in our sport. Currently, my dog Lex, the dog in question, is third in the U.S.

Schutzhund is comprised of three disciplines: tracking, obedience, and protection. It is very similar to police dog training. Our dogs are well rounded, personal protection dogs after their training is complete, that are fine pet dogs and good citizens with strangers and other animals. But, they are also capable defenders when asked to do so.

As I said, Lex had a broken tooth that made him not want to engage in bite work training. He was already highly titled, but would not perform at trials. Something had to be done.

We learned of a doggie dentist with good references down in Lenexa Kansas. My wife made an appointment for me to take Lex in at 3:00 in the afternoon. I was good with that, because it's almost a 4 hour drive from our house.

When I got to the appointment, all they did was look at the dog and explain what the options were. I was so pissed at my wife! We already knew the options, I was there to have the tooth fixed. But, my wife had made an appointment for a consultation! The people that could fox the tooth had already gone home for the day. I would need to come back tomorrow, they could get me in about 8:00 A.M. :mad:

So, I call my wife and tell her to find us a motel room. I have no clothes, medicine, dog food or bowls, dog crate, even a toothbrush. But I wasn't going to drive another 8 hours and spend the gas money just to come back the next morning. The cost was about a wash. I bought a small bag of dog food, a couple of "shareware" containers for dog food and water, and settled in for the night.

Our appointment was at 8:00 the next morning. I set the alarm for 6, so I could get the dog out to do his business early enough that I could hit the free breakfast buffet and still make our appointment time. I decided to take the dog out the side door, rather than the close route through the lobby, to be considerate to early breakfast folks that might not appreciate an 85 pound German Shepherd strutting through their breakfast area.

As we reentered the motel, all of a sudden, a woman began screaming, as though she was being murdered.
HELP!!! HELP!!! SOMEONE PLEASE HELP ME!!! GET OFF ME!!! I DON'T KNOW YOU!!! SOMEBODY PLEASE HELP!!!

There were two other men in the hallway walking towards the lobby and the buffet. We all heard it.
One of the men said, "Well! Sounds like someone is having a bad morning!". Both kept walking towards the lobby.
Briefly, I considered doing the same thing. Not my business. Not my fight. Those thought were almost immediately replaced by "What if this were my wife, or my daughter." I knew I couldn't walk away.

The motel was shaped like an L and three stories high. We were about halfway down the long leg by the middle exit door and stairwell. The screaming was coming from upstairs. Lex and I charged up to the second floor. By now, the screaming had stopped, and I looked all up and down the halls, but there was nothing to be seen. Then, the screaming began again. Naturally, it was up on the third floor! So we ran up the stairwell and rounded the corner.

There, about 30 feet away, was a naked woman on the floor against the wall with a large man holding her down and trying to cover her mouth. His back was to us, and he didn't know we were there. I pushed back my
coat to expose my Walther PPQ in it's retention holster, and yelled "WHAT THE F IS GOING ON!!!!"

The guy turned around, surprised, and looked at us. Big cammo clad dude, gun on hip, BIG German Shepherd on a leash standing VERY alert, with a no nonsense demeanor. Not growling or anything. He didn't need to.

I said, "LET HER GO! Get OFF that woman! He stood up, dragging the woman up with him. He said, "This is not what you think! She's taken an overdose of bad drugs! She's just tripping out! She knows me! We've been dating for two years!" Meanwhile he tells the woman, "Ashley! Shut up! You need to cover up!"

Of course, I have NO IDEA what the real story is. Is this a pimp/whore, a whore/john, a domestic dispute, a bad drug deal gone wrong, or what. Only that this woman is still screaming that she doesn't know this guy.
I take enough time to look at them both. He seems sober, and strangely normal. She doesn't. And by now, he has let her go and is standing a few feet away, but strangely she has not run away but is still standing about 10 feet away screaming at him to get the F away from her. She is @ 32-35, blonde, shaved, tattooed and pierced. Has the body of a stripper, and the mouth to match. She looks like trouble.

By this time, there are about five or six doors further up the hallway that had opened with people peeking out.
I point to two, and say "Call 911! NOW!" I see several people moving to do so. But my main attention is on the guy. He says "There's no need for the cops! She's just trippin'! She'll be Ok!"I My response is, "That's fine. The cops are on the way. They will make sure she gets the help she needs." All the while, the woman is standing in the hall screaming at the guy, making no effort to get away or even cover herself.

I tell the guy, "I think you should leave". He looks at me and says "You think I should leave?!!?"
I say "Yeah, I don't think she's going to stop screaming until you do. Besides, the cops are coming. I'm doing
you a favor. Just walk away!" He looks at me, looks at her, and says "FINE!!! F YOU ASHLEY!!!!" Then he looks at me and points his finger and says "AND F YOU TOO!!!", at which point Lex tensed and gave the most menacing growl I have ever heard ANY of my dogs make! (If I had let him go and said the word, Lex would have messed him up.) Dude intelligently decides to walk past us on the far side of the hall, and as he does so the woman yells at him "YEAH JEREMY! GET THE F OUT OF HERE!!!" and proceeds to follow him attempting to strike him! I say "Oh, so you DO know him!!!"

I look at the guy, and say "Look, I'm sorry if I misjudged the situation, but please realize I'm only trying to do the right thing. But I still think you should go. She's not going to stop until you do." So he goes down the side stairs, and after a minute I follow. I want no part of the crazy druggy chick.

The guy was at the bottom of the stairs when we got to the main floor, and I again said I was sorry. I even gave him one of my business cards and told him I didn't know what story Ashley might be telling the cops, but I would testify to what I had seen. Then we proceeded to walk towards our room down by the lobby. By the time we rounded the corner towards the lobby we could see several people standing up in the breakfast area looking at some disturbance in the lobby. Apparently the druggie chick had run out the side door, around the outside and into the lobby, still buck nekkid. Screaming how she needed water NOW!!!

I just walked past the breakfast folks, told the counter help the police had been called, and walked outside to wait for them to arrive, which they did about 45 seconds later. I told them "She's in the lobby. You can't miss her."
Watchman that could have gone a number of ways for sure. And your puppy could have joined in on the mishap as well. Folks talk about all the ways they would handle things if confronted, but when it comes down to the nut cutting it's never just black and white.

Did you get Lex the dog back to biting on demand after the tooth was fixed. I've read about you Schutzhund people some amazing dogs you guys and gals have trained.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jan 26, 2009
Messages
2,223
Location
Ragnarok Farm, Iowa
Watchman that could have gone a number of ways for sure. And your puppy could have joined in on the mishap as well. Folks talk about all the ways they would handle things if confronted, but when it comes down to the nut cutting it's never just black and white.

Did you get Lex the dog back to biting on demand after the tooth was fixed. I've read about you Schutzhund people some amazing dogs you guys and gals have trained.
Yes, he's fully operational again. Truly an awesome dog, he's currently #3 in the country after last year's National Championship.

I've decided to retire him from bite work though, but I will still show him. Schutzhund titles are a prerequisite for showing in SV (German) dog shows at the top levels. He's as highly titled in Schutzhund as he can go, so there's no need to risk breaking another tooth. The last one cost me over $2,500.00, plus a trip to Kansas City and a motel stay!

Now he lives the life of Riley, studding out for his Dad. If I could figure out how, I'd post some pictures.
 
Joined
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Messages
2,223
Location
Ragnarok Farm, Iowa
Lex.
20230107_141204 Lex.jpg
 
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
9,059
Location
Dallas, TX
Watchman:
Yes, I read your story, and thanks for posting the pictures of Lex. I can see how he would be pretty imposing over some bad guy.

I sure wouldn’t want to mess with him.
 
Joined
Jan 8, 2012
Messages
1,601
Location
Sioux Falls, South Dakota
Just me, I know, but German Shepherds of any variety have always made me nervous. Friends have had them and they were friendly, but I never felt comfortable around them. I suppose this goes back to when I was in grade school. We used to have to pass a house where there was a German Shepherd. The place was fenced, but there wasn't a gate where the driveway went in. If you were walking, he would bark at you, but not cross the fence. If you were riding your bike, you'd better be going as fast as you could because that dog would leave the yard and viciously chase you down the road. I was around 10 YO, so I suppose he was chasing the wheels, but it sure scared the bejesus out of us. Several parents complained, but we were not in the city, and the township didn't care. Finally one kid's parents called the sherriff, and they had to get rid of the dog.

Never could get used to German Shepherds. Beautiful animals, just not my cup of tea......
 
Joined
Jan 26, 2009
Messages
2,223
Location
Ragnarok Farm, Iowa
We breed for temperament and intelligence foremost, and health. Every dog we own and breed has been carefully selected from the finest lines, with certified good or excellent hips, elbows and spines going back at least 3 generations. We have used some of the same dogs for both Schutzhund and therapy dogs.

Any dog will bite if provoked. A dog with good temperament won't bite unless it must, or you give the OK.
It all comes down to training. How the dog is raised. Fairness and consistency are the keys. Good behavior is encouraged and rewarded, and bad behavior is not tolerated. Ever. Dogs, like kids, are always testing their limits.
Once they know what is and is not acceptable behavior, they become calm and confident. Much less likely to act aggressively or bite. Those behaviors usually come from fear based dogs.

We don't breed often. Maybe one litter a year on average, sometimes not that. Never have had more than two in a year. We breed quality, not quantity.

I can take Lex anywhere. He's good with kids, old folks, and other animals.
But he knows his job. He's good at it. I never felt the need to draw my gun. ;)
 

Ride1949

Hunter
Joined
Dec 4, 2021
Messages
2,041
Location
Oregon
Beautiful dog Watchman.
I've had several German Shepherds, and never had a problem. All were intelligent and loyal dogs. Now about those dangerous Pitbulls that seem to scare so many folks...:eek:

Pitbull Fight.jpg


I also had a Pit/Shepherd mix that was one of the smartest, friendliest dogs I've ever had the pleasure of knowing. RIP Angus.

Aug 11 2006 005_zpssnv5amcw-1.JPG
 
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