Quarryman
Bearcat
Has the No. 1 ever been offered in .444 Marlin caliber? If so, will that gun fire .44 Mag rounds safely?
No. 1 in .444 Marlin?
- Thread starter Quarryman
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mcknight77
Blackhawk
Not that I know of.
Should've been; could've been; WBR was too stubborn to do so, along with many other calibers. The Genius had a narrow approach to potential. There was a lot of money he did not take in, because he refused to build what the working masses would have purchased. the single shot #1 is only the tip of the iceberg on this subject.............. :roll: A number of us, over the years, had these brief discussions with him. Usually we were stiff-armed and he summarily walked away............
Quarryman
Bearcat
Hawkeye, that's very interesting. One would hope these decisions about what calibers to make were based on pragmatic business issues.
It seems like the No.1 has been the pet platform for reviving old nostalgic calibers like the .450/400 but at the same time it may be leaving big swaths of the market untouched.
It seems like the No.1 has been the pet platform for reviving old nostalgic calibers like the .450/400 but at the same time it may be leaving big swaths of the market untouched.
pete44ru
Hunter
The adantage, of having your name on the door, is that you get to decide - not someone else.
picketpin
Buckeye
If you want a 444 simply build it.
I know they are chambering a whole bunch of big nostalgia rounds. On the other hand there sure are a lot of them for sale.. None seem to be hot sellers.
What does the 444 do that a 458 doesn't?
RWT
I know they are chambering a whole bunch of big nostalgia rounds. On the other hand there sure are a lot of them for sale.. None seem to be hot sellers.
What does the 444 do that a 458 doesn't?
RWT
Quarryman
Bearcat
Well, I was hoping it would also chamber the .44 Mag round, which I reload for two of my other guns. Nobody has answered that part of my question.
buckeyeshooter
Blackhawk
The #3 was available in 44 magnum. I think a ream to 444 would be simple. I would not recommend 44 mags in a 444 as my guess is the jump to the barrel is excessive and would produce poor accuracy.
Quarryman
Bearcat
I suppose I could just reload .444 shells with .44 Mag charges (keeping in mind the usual powder volume caveats) but it sounds like the better choice would be to buy a No. 1 in .45/70 to begin with.
captainkirk
Blackhawk
I don't think the 44 mag has been reccomended in 444 bbls in applications where it could be used (ie custom contenders etc) because of differences in base sizes. Though the rims are the same the 444 has a larger base at .470 versus the .457 of the 44. This could lead to over expansion in cases and even rupture in high pressure loads. I could be wrong. but I think this was what I remember reading some years back.
captainkirk
captainkirk
Joe S.
Hunter
reviving an old thread cause i too would like to see one in 444. that and 308 for me would be the best option for me and where i hunt.
not to say that i wouldnt like a 458, but i am getting to the point that i want to keep as few of chamberings as possible.
kinda like when people give me a hard time about shooting 44 over 45LC. i have 4 .44 mag guns. no 45. so it makes sense to stick with the 44.
that is my understanding as wellcaptainkirk said:
the answer for me is simple. i have other 444s, dont have a 458, so i wouldnt have to start over on ammo.picketpin said:
not to say that i wouldnt like a 458, but i am getting to the point that i want to keep as few of chamberings as possible.
kinda like when people give me a hard time about shooting 44 over 45LC. i have 4 .44 mag guns. no 45. so it makes sense to stick with the 44.
Joe S.
Hunter
how much does a ruger #1 action sell for?
picketpin
Buckeye
Well the last action that sold on GunBroker sld for over $500!! Seeing you can often buy a complete #1 in used condition for anywhere from $500 to $650 dollars this seemed crazy to me. (I bid $350)
I don't know of anybody that currently sells actions. Ruger of course used to off er barreled actions but they are no longer offer them or as actions alone.
A couple of times over the years Ruger released actions only for sp[ecial projects but that ammounts to a few hundred actions.
Brownells used to to sell barreled action but they cleared them out a few years back.
Best way to get an "action" is to find a used #1 at the best price you can find used.
Ross
The $500 #1 still happens BUT not nearly as often as they did 20/15 years ago.
I don't know of anybody that currently sells actions. Ruger of course used to off er barreled actions but they are no longer offer them or as actions alone.
A couple of times over the years Ruger released actions only for sp[ecial projects but that ammounts to a few hundred actions.
Brownells used to to sell barreled action but they cleared them out a few years back.
Best way to get an "action" is to find a used #1 at the best price you can find used.
Ross
The $500 #1 still happens BUT not nearly as often as they did 20/15 years ago.
mattsbox99
Hunter
I'd really like a .444 Marlin No. 1, I have a Marlin 444SS but I loathe to shoot it because the lever beats my hand up.
picketpin
Buckeye
Back to the 444, not to my knowlwdge. As suggested, if it's important to you, make one.
I always find it amusing that every guy has his own idea of what they should chamber and why but the reality of the #1 market is that it ois so small that Bill Ruger didn't see chasing a few rifles. The new run of "Stuff" aren't selling any faster than anything else and you can still buy nearly every Lipsey Special in a run of 250 for less than they were introduced at.
I'm a real fan of the 257 Roberts and will eventually by oneof the current 257 Roberts "A" rifles. That being said the are currently running at $859- $889 which is significantly lower than the intitial asking price and there are still plenty of those intial 250 rifles out there floating arounbd around.
Build 250 444s and they would flood the market and satisfy the demand for that cartridge for YEARS,
The other thing was that Bill understoofd that ballistically very little made sense as far as offering a wide spectrum of cartridges in the #1. No issues with long or short action or even barrel length. A standard "B" in 300 Win Mag is as long or should we say short, as a 22" barreled 77 or other standard action bolt gun. THe "action" is certainly shorter thana convential bolt action short action. So simply in terms of ballistics chambering the #1 in a BUNCH of cartridges simply didn't/doesn't make sense.
Yes, he would have sold more rifle as Spltz says. Michael will also have to admit that he, Ruger, didn't see any reason to chamber a bunch of different things to satisfy the #1 collector or create a secondary market.
It's just possible that Rugers thoughts are being born out by just how slow MOST of these runs and even cataloged cartridges are selling.
Because we are enthusiastic about the gun, we think everybody else is.
In reality it's an awfully small market and when I talk to friends that are serious gun guys and shooters/hunters most/nearly all are amazed I'm still banging away with #1s after 40+ years. The vast majority don't own a #1 and never will.
Respectfully
Ross
I always find it amusing that every guy has his own idea of what they should chamber and why but the reality of the #1 market is that it ois so small that Bill Ruger didn't see chasing a few rifles. The new run of "Stuff" aren't selling any faster than anything else and you can still buy nearly every Lipsey Special in a run of 250 for less than they were introduced at.
I'm a real fan of the 257 Roberts and will eventually by oneof the current 257 Roberts "A" rifles. That being said the are currently running at $859- $889 which is significantly lower than the intitial asking price and there are still plenty of those intial 250 rifles out there floating arounbd around.
Build 250 444s and they would flood the market and satisfy the demand for that cartridge for YEARS,
The other thing was that Bill understoofd that ballistically very little made sense as far as offering a wide spectrum of cartridges in the #1. No issues with long or short action or even barrel length. A standard "B" in 300 Win Mag is as long or should we say short, as a 22" barreled 77 or other standard action bolt gun. THe "action" is certainly shorter thana convential bolt action short action. So simply in terms of ballistics chambering the #1 in a BUNCH of cartridges simply didn't/doesn't make sense.
Yes, he would have sold more rifle as Spltz says. Michael will also have to admit that he, Ruger, didn't see any reason to chamber a bunch of different things to satisfy the #1 collector or create a secondary market.
It's just possible that Rugers thoughts are being born out by just how slow MOST of these runs and even cataloged cartridges are selling.
Because we are enthusiastic about the gun, we think everybody else is.
In reality it's an awfully small market and when I talk to friends that are serious gun guys and shooters/hunters most/nearly all are amazed I'm still banging away with #1s after 40+ years. The vast majority don't own a #1 and never will.
Respectfully
Ross
mattsbox99
Hunter
I know you're kind of a pessimist Ross, but even you have to admit it would be cool to see all kinds of different chamberings and submodel offerings...
mike-c
Single-Sixer
Greetings all,
Just purchased a 416 RCM, and what a fine rifle it is. I went the stainless with iron sights. Not trying to steal the topic here, but would like to recommend the TC Encore for the 444 Marlin. It can handle the cartridge. Further, get the synthetic stock, so you can add lead to the butt to make the rifle heavy enough to absorb the recoil. I did it with my 45-70 barrel because it was a hard kicker in a light rifle.
Take care,
Mike 8)
Just purchased a 416 RCM, and what a fine rifle it is. I went the stainless with iron sights. Not trying to steal the topic here, but would like to recommend the TC Encore for the 444 Marlin. It can handle the cartridge. Further, get the synthetic stock, so you can add lead to the butt to make the rifle heavy enough to absorb the recoil. I did it with my 45-70 barrel because it was a hard kicker in a light rifle.
Take care,
Mike 8)
Joe S.
Hunter
Ross, I definately understand what you are saying about them not being big sellers.
Here in MS you can use single shot rifles during primitive weapon season as long as they are: 35 caliber or larger, break open design with exposed hammer.
The encores and handi rifles sells like hot cakes. #1s still don't have a market because of their (falling block?) design. The occasional guy we have request them in the shop I work at is wanting it (9 out of 10) for use in primitive weapon season. So we have to educate them on the law regarding the use of single shot rifles for prim weapon season and they usually end up leaving with a handi rifle.
Personally, I much prefer the handi rifles over the encore. Something about paying 600+ for a rifle when a handi rifle has same basic action and will do the job as good or better. Dress up the handi with a nice laminate stock and IMO they look just as nice. The Encore is the one rifle where I can't go along with the "you get what you pay for" adage. I have seen more complaints out of the encore in the prim weapon calibers than I do in the handi. Complaints being accuracy and dependability issues. So the only thing the encore has over the handi is the ability to swap out barrels without having to have them "fitted". That is a moot point to me because I wouldn't do that with an encore if I owned one. I prefer to have dedicated action per barrel.
However, I much prefer the design of the ruger over the handi rifles I shoot. Just feels better, and altho I couldn't use it during prim weapon season a handi rifle would probably get used more than any other rifle during regular hunting season.
All that to say I really like the 444 caliber and while it doesn't make money sense for ruger to make one, it makes sense for me to own one because I love that caliber so much. sigh, one day. Lol
Maybe an octogon barrel sittin against a #1 action would be cool... Haha
Here in MS you can use single shot rifles during primitive weapon season as long as they are: 35 caliber or larger, break open design with exposed hammer.
The encores and handi rifles sells like hot cakes. #1s still don't have a market because of their (falling block?) design. The occasional guy we have request them in the shop I work at is wanting it (9 out of 10) for use in primitive weapon season. So we have to educate them on the law regarding the use of single shot rifles for prim weapon season and they usually end up leaving with a handi rifle.
Personally, I much prefer the handi rifles over the encore. Something about paying 600+ for a rifle when a handi rifle has same basic action and will do the job as good or better. Dress up the handi with a nice laminate stock and IMO they look just as nice. The Encore is the one rifle where I can't go along with the "you get what you pay for" adage. I have seen more complaints out of the encore in the prim weapon calibers than I do in the handi. Complaints being accuracy and dependability issues. So the only thing the encore has over the handi is the ability to swap out barrels without having to have them "fitted". That is a moot point to me because I wouldn't do that with an encore if I owned one. I prefer to have dedicated action per barrel.
However, I much prefer the design of the ruger over the handi rifles I shoot. Just feels better, and altho I couldn't use it during prim weapon season a handi rifle would probably get used more than any other rifle during regular hunting season.
All that to say I really like the 444 caliber and while it doesn't make money sense for ruger to make one, it makes sense for me to own one because I love that caliber so much.
sigh, one day. LolMaybe an octogon barrel sittin against a #1 action would be cool... Haha
Joe S.
Hunter
Mattsbox99
Have you tried a bigloop lever in your marlin? That helps sometimes.
Have you tried a bigloop lever in your marlin? That helps sometimes.
wunbe
Buckeye
Ross,
I mostly agree with you on the Old Bill factor but things were not never that hard and fast. And they have changed greatly with CEO shifts..
The recent esoteric pistol caliber offeringsmust have set Bill spinning in his grave. His aversion for duplicating existing offerings did not run consistently. Recent near duplications of existing offerings had precedents in some old duplicates --.280, .270 WBY, and .270 and the .300 RM and .300 WBY.
Bill just made what ever he damn well chose and ignored his customers unless they were FOBs.
The slow sales of the newer special run #1s do not impact Ruger's bottom line as they get paid up front. The distributors eat any losses/shortfalls in profits. And yet they keep ordering new ones. Must be lots of slack in the MSRP on #1s or just loads of $ in the gun business in general to allow that trend to go on.
wunbe
I mostly agree with you on the Old Bill factor but things were not never that hard and fast. And they have changed greatly with CEO shifts..
The recent esoteric pistol caliber offeringsmust have set Bill spinning in his grave. His aversion for duplicating existing offerings did not run consistently. Recent near duplications of existing offerings had precedents in some old duplicates --.280, .270 WBY, and .270 and the .300 RM and .300 WBY.
Bill just made what ever he damn well chose and ignored his customers unless they were FOBs.
The slow sales of the newer special run #1s do not impact Ruger's bottom line as they get paid up front. The distributors eat any losses/shortfalls in profits. And yet they keep ordering new ones. Must be lots of slack in the MSRP on #1s or just loads of $ in the gun business in general to allow that trend to go on.
wunbe
