New vs Old mdl Vaquaro

[redoc]

Greetings from FL folks. I'm new to the forum, and have a question anout the New Vaquaro Bisley. I'd like to purchase a .45 LC and considered a Ruger because I have several in different cal. I hear "only buy the old model" Why is the new model inferior? If it is. Thank you for your help.

 

[gak]

IMO, it is just different, not inferior. The New Vaquero is a lighter duty (slightly smaller) frame and cylinder that more closely matches the Colt, and therefore "can't" take Ruger-only" loads, but intended instead for SAMMI spec loads, I.e. "Normal" loads--not just reduced "cowboy loads" as some will say. So it's a matter of two things: a) do you want to be shooting "hot" loads? b) which frame better suits you in terms of size/feel? The NV has the added "superior" (IMO) feature of indexing the cylinder/chamber stops exactly to line up with the loading gate (no over-travel). Now, a lot of folks have griped about the NV's smaller/slimmer stock (XR3 vs XR3 Red) grips...as wellas the stock plastic/checkered grips' harshness. these can easily be rectified by aftermarket XR3-frame grips or, you can "sand" down the factories' with 00-000 to make smoother/closer to Colt, etc., if you like them otherwise. Nice to have choices, there are pros and cons to both guns. I think they're both "good" depending on your likes and objectives.

LATER EDIT by author to clarify and eliminate misleading statement re loads.

 

[redoc]

That's helpful, Thank's for the reply, I appreciate it.

 

[Old Judge Creek]

About 10 years ago I bought a brace of 44 Mag Bisley Vaqueros, primarily for SASS, but also for carry in the desert when prospecting, etc. They're heavier, but personally, I like the sheer indestructability of them. To me that translates to "reliability" no matter what.

I like them so much that I bought both a ss Black Hawk and another BisVaq in 45 Colt... "just kuz".

Then, after a few years, I discovered that my preferred "carryin'" 45 Colt revolver had become a 3" Colt clone made by Uberti, even though the Uberti offers absolutely NONE of the fine properties invested in the Rugers... but it was easier packin' on the hip.

If the S did ever HTF, when the dust settled, I'd want one of Ruger's big ol' single action brutes as an ace in the hole.

The bottom line: well of course - you need one of each :wink:

:lol:

 

[raveneap]

I've got both and find both are well made guns and fun to shoot. Old one on top is in 44-40. New model is 357 mag. She's got Walnut grips now too.

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[redoc]

Thank's for the replies. The difference in weight wouldn't bother my, the big thing is reliablity, being able to handle what ever ammo I'm able to purchase in a given situation. I also looked at the Umberti Cattleman, real nice feel, and I understand it's made by Beretta. Thanks again.

 

[gak]

If you think there's a good chance you'll want to go "heavy," go with the larger framed Vaquero--it's essentially a Blackhawk except for the smoothed "cowboy" frame and sights. Can take anything yiu care to shoot through it. A lot of folks have installed a free spin pawl--that gets rid of the cylinder overtravel stop (chamber to be reloaded goes just past direct ejector rod line up)--if that bothers you.

 

[redoc]

Thanks for the feed back. Is the Bisley mdl avail. in the Blackhawk? I don't like the sharp edges of the sights.

 

[gak]

Do you mean Vaquero? It's the one (between it and the BH) with the smoothed sights. But the answer is "yes" to both re the Bisley, though the large frame Vaquero is no longer made--in either plowhandle or Bisley. They're out there though.

 

[redoc]

Yes, I did mean Vaquaro. I'd like to find that heavier frame, "old Vaquaro". I stopped by a pawn shop tonight, thought maybe I'd get lucky.
At least I have a better idea of what to look for. Thanks again!

 

[Dale53]

I have an original 5½" Bisley Vaquero in .45 Colt caliber. I have been extremely happy with it. I have shot a lot of Black Powder loads as well as smokeless. It shoots exactly to the sights at 25 yards with 250-260 gr bullets.

I finally added a sister revolver - a 5½" Ruger Bisley SS Black Hawk .45 Colt/.45 ACP convertible. I think it is going to be a worthy mate to the original Vaquero.

These revolvers typically need a bit of work (cylinder throats and a trigger job) but the results are terrific in my experience.

Dale53

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

The New Vaquero is a lighter duty (slightly smaller) frame and cylinder that more closely matches the Colt, and therefore "can't" take Ruger-only" loads, but intended instead for SAMMI spec (20-21k, etc fine) loads, I.e. "Normal" loads--not just reduced "cowboy loads" as some will say.

Howdy

The official SAAMI Max pressure for 45 Colt is 14,000 psi, not 20,000-21,000 psi.

The Uberti Cattleman is made by Uberti. Beretta owns Uberti, but the gun is made by Uberti.

As far as rugged and durability are concerned, although the cylinder, and therefore the frame, of the New Vaquero are slightly smaller than the 'original model' the New Model is just as rugged as the 'original model'. Don't confuse ruggedness with how much pressure the cylinder can take. the cylinder and therefore the frame of the 'original model' Vaquero was more massive than the cylinder of the New Vaquero, so it could tolerate higher pressure than the New Vaquero cylinder can. But the internal parts of the New Vaquero are just as tough and reliable as the parts inside the 'original model'. Some parts are the same in both guns. Although you cannot fire Magnum level ammo in the New Vaquero, you can still use it as a hammer to mend fences and you won't hurt it.

 

[gak]

I stand corrected. Follow the manual.

I agree, the NV is no lightweight, and especially in the .357 is all the Vaquero one normally might need. Mine certainly is. The .45, as has been suggested, is another matter unless you really don't plan on "magnum" loads.
-------------
Earlier post EDITED to clarify and eliminate misleading statement re loads--error correctly pointed out by Driftwood above.

 

[redoc]

Good morning Gentleman. Thanks for the replies. The New Vaquaro does sound like it will perform for what I want it to do, that is shoot commercial load .45 Long Colt. I was beggining to think I had to be careful of what ammo I was going to put through it. Thanks for the feedback.

 

[BlkHawk73]

Good morning Gentleman. Thanks for the replies. The New Vaquaro does sound like it will perform for what I want it to do, that is shoot commercial load .45 Long Colt. I was beggining to think I had to be careful of what ammo I was going to put through it. Thanks for the feedback.

Stick with SAAMI spec stuff and you'll be fine. Need more than that...buy a more powerful chambering to begin with. :wink:
Enjoy whatever model you bring home!

 

[gobe]

I have been a little concerned about the difference between the Old vs New Vaqueros, so asked Jeff Quinn about it. Here are my questions and his answers.

"Jeff,

I'm going to go with a Ruger and am torn between a 45 LC and .357 Mag. I've got a Ruger SP-101 in .357 Mag, have no .45's, so a .357 Mag would make sense on two points: cheaper ammo and one less caliber of ammo to 'stock'. However, I'm concerned about all the hype that the 'new' Vaquero isn't as strong as the old Vaquero and won't handle the 'hot' (+P?) loads that the old Vaquero did. Do you know if this applies to the new Vaquero .357 Mag also??

Most of what I've read about this has been talking about the .45 LC new Vaqueros. The .357 Mag new Vaqueros are 4 oz. heavier than the .45 LC according to the Ruger website. Does this relate to more 'beef' for shooting the hotter .357 Mag loads??"

"gobe,

The .357 can handle any .357 magnum cartridge ever made. The NV .45 Colt can handle some pretty hot loads, but not as hot as the Old Vaquero. If you want the strength of the Original Vaquero in .45 Colt, go with the .45 LC Blackhawk. The .357 is heavier due to a smaller bore in the barrel.

Jeff"

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

I'm concerned about all the hype that the 'new' Vaquero isn't as strong as the old Vaquero and won't handle the 'hot' (+P?) loads that the old Vaquero did. Do you know if this applies to the new Vaquero .357 Mag also??

Howdy

Perhaps this photo will help make things clear. The cylinder in the center is a stainless 'original model' Vaquero cylinder, chambered for 45 Colt. The cylinder on the right is a Colt cylinder, also chambered for 45 Colt. Notice how much more metal there is surrounding the chambers in the cylinder in the center than the Colt cylinder. That is the whole story, right there. The holes are the same size in both cylinders, but there is simply more metal surrounding the holes in the 'original model' Vaquero cylinder. There is only about .040 of chamber walls separating the chambers of the Colt cylinder at their thinnest points. There is about .065 of steel separating the chambers at their thinnest points in the 'original model' Vaquero cylinder. I don't have a 45 caliber New Vaquero cylinder to show you, but it would look a lot more like the Colt cylinder than the 'original model' Vaquero cylinder if I did. That's why the Max pressure for 45 Colt is set at only 14,000 psi for the 45 Colt cartridge. Because there is only about .040 of steel separating the chambers in these guns. Compare that to about 35,000 psi for both the 357 Mag and 44 Mag cartridges. The 'original model' Vaquero cylinder can handle that. In fact, with the cylinder chambered for 44 Mag, there would be a little bit more metal between the chambers, since the holes would be a little bit smaller.

The cylinder on the left is a New Vaquero cylinder chambered for 357 Magnum. Notice how much steel surrounds each chamber. That's why the gun is heavier, the holes are smaller, so there is more metal there. Same with the barrel. That 357 Mag New Vaquero cylinder can safely digest any factory 357 Magnum ammo you can find.

By the way, the Colt SAA has been chambered for 357 Mag since the 1930s, and it also has enough metal to safely handle any factory 357 Magnum loads.

 

[RUFFBIRD]

Another visual difference between the (Original) "Vaquero" & the "New Vaquero".

 

[redoc]

I found a Old Model Vaquaro, which is like new. So my shopping is over for this anyway. Can anyone tell me when it was made? 57-018xx.
Thanks for all the feed back I got, it helped me make a decision.

 

[DGW1949]

The New Vaquero is a lighter duty (slightly smaller) frame and cylinder that more closely matches the Colt, and therefore "can't" take Ruger-only" loads, but intended instead for SAMMI spec (20-21k, etc fine) loads, I.e. "Normal" loads--not just reduced "cowboy loads" as some will say.

Howdy

The official SAAMI Max pressure for 45 Colt is 14,000 psi, not 20,000-21,000 psi.

The Uberti Cattleman is made by Uberti. Beretta owns Uberti, but the gun is made by Uberti.

As far as rugged and durability are concerned, although the cylinder, and therefore the frame, of the New Vaquero are slightly smaller than the 'original model' the New Model is just as rugged as the 'original model'. Don't confuse ruggedness with how much pressure the cylinder can take. the cylinder and therefore the frame of the 'original model' Vaquero was more massive than the cylinder of the New Vaquero, so it could tolerate higher pressure than the New Vaquero cylinder can. But the internal parts of the New Vaquero are just as tough and reliable as the parts inside the 'original model'. Some parts are the same in both guns. Although you cannot fire Magnum level ammo in the New Vaquero, you can still use it as a hammer to mend fences and you won't hurt it.

As usual, Driftwood has perty-much got it all nailed. Pun intended.

DGW