New Vaquero timing

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Anonymous

Hi all,

I have a couple New Vaqueros, one in 357 and the other 45. On the 45, if I thumb the hammer back very slowly, the gun goes to full cock before the cylinder locks into place. I'm no expert, but I'm relatively certain that is not supposed to happen, as the gun could be fired with the cylinder misaligned, correct?

During normal cocking movements it's a non issue. Just curious as to whether or not anyone else has this problem, if it's something I need to send to Ruger, or something I can correct on my own.

Thanks,

Mike
 

contender

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Welcome to the Forum!
Nothing is wrong with your revolver. It's the way it was designed. Not necessarily designed to be slow on lockup, but more it was just the way it happened. Use normal cocking procedures, and always fully cock it before you drop or lower the hammer.
Some folks tinker with the timing & alignment more to stop the possible dreaded cylinder ring more often than the actual slow cocking issue you've noticed.
Remember, "Rugged, Reliable, Ruger Firearms." They weren't built to be babied.
 

Driftwood Johnson

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Howdy

In a perfect world, the perfect revolver will go to full cock at the very same instant that the bolt pops up locking the cylinder in place. Manufacturing tolerances make every gun slightly different, you would wind up paying a lot more if the manufacturer could guarantee that the timing would be 'perfect' on each gun. Sometimes you will run across a production (non-custom) revolver that will do this right out of the box. Very often you will find they lock up as you describe, the hammer goes to full cock ever so slightly before the cylinder locks up. The reason the gun can do this is there is enough play built into the action so that even after the gun goes to full cock, there is still a tiny bit of motion left in the hammer, so it can go back a little bit farther, pushing the hand which inturn pushes the cylinder around a tiny bit more to allow the gun to go to battery. This is particularlly true of single action revolvers.

In the real world we tend to cock a revolver with enough 'oomph' that we don't even notice we have used the overtravel of the hammer to push the cylinder around all the way.

You can pay a gunsmith to lengthen your hand ever so slightly, so that the piece locks up at the same instant as the hammer goes to full cock. However, beware... a hand that is slightly too long will bring the cylinder to battery and jam up the hammer so it can never go all the way to full cock. That is the condition you want to avoid. That is the other reason that many guns operate as you describe, to avoid the possibility of it never going to full cock.
 

flatgate

Hawkeye
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This situation is called "late carry up timing" and, as Driftwood Johnson stated, is rectified by lengthening the second tooth on the pawl. A different pawl may just be the ticket, as well.

flatgate
 

magnum pi

Bearcat
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Slow cocking a revolver isn't good. Noticed it myself on other revolvers not just Ruger. Cock it and don't wait around. You don't have to be rough, just go ahead with the motion and be done. Think that will solve the problem. Enjoy!
 

BIgMuddy

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It is not a serious problem as others have stated. I for one do not like my guns to operate as yours does, and i replace the pawls when they do.
 

G. Freeman

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My brand new blackhawk can be slowly cocked and the cylinder latch engages at that moment that the single action sear catches. I guess I was lucky. Read in the manual though that the hammer has to be pulled back briskly to prevent timing issues. I asked about this question in this forum a few weeks ago and the few responders didn't have any probs with slow-cocking as well.
 

Hokie73

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Get a Colt. Then you can start cocking real hard and slow up, and the cylinder will roll right past chamber alignment. If you screw around trying tricky cocking movements all sorts of "malfunctions" are possible. If you just pull the hammer back and then pull the trigger, most of them go bang pretty reliably.
 

Driftwood Johnson

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Get a Colt. Then you can start cocking real hard and slow up, and the cylinder will roll right past chamber alignment.

Howdy again

I have a couple of Colts and a few Ubertis. A SA revolver that exhibits this behavior has a problem, it is not correct. This often happens when the hand spring is too light. A heavier hand spring, or bending it slightly to exert more pressure will often correct this problem. It is common with Colts that have been tuned too light.
 

Hokie73

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Driftwood, I got into a discussion with an AWA rep at a gun show some years ago about this issue. I kinda hated to do it in front of people, but he was just soooo cocksure I couldn't resist. I told him I was pretty sure I could make any original Colt design do it, and of course he said none of their factory tuned revolvers would do it. With no more than a couple of tries apiece I made five of his guns in a row do it. I don't think there is necessarily anything wrong with the guns, and I have have to try specifically to make it happen, it's just a characteristic of the design.
 

Driftwood Johnson

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Hokie73

When you stroke the hammer rapidly and then suddenly let up on the pressure, what can happen is the cylinder builds up momentum, but you have arrested the hammer movement before the bolt has risen. So without anything to stop it, the cylinder rolls on past the point of proper alignment. Then when you subsequently complete the stroke, the bolt rises, but the cylinder has already rotated too far and the bolt does not engage its locking slot in the cylinder. This is called throwby. It is often caused by a weak handspring. Part of the function of the hand is to provide a little bit of braking action against the ratchet teeth of the cylinder. With a sufficiently strong handspring, the cylinder will not throw by even with an interrupted hammer stroke.

I have a 2nd Gen Colt that I could get to consistantly throw by any time I tried, by interupting the hammer stroke just as you describe. Finally, I replaced the handspring with a newer one and bent it slightly so the hand exerted more pressure against the ratchet teeth. The problem went away and that Colt will no longer throw by with an interrupted hammer stroke. I replaced the hand spring in my other Colt too, while I was at it. It too will not throw by with an interrupted hammer stroke.

Many of today's CAS shooters want so little friction in their revolvers that they lighten their handsprings too much. These guns will throw by any time you try. Usually, when you spin the cylinder, if the gun sings loud and clear, the cylinder will not throw by. If it is just a whisper, you can get it to throw by.

With all due respect, the AWA rep was probably a salesman, not a gunsmith, so I'm not surprised he was not aware of this problem.

For more information on this subject, look it up on pages 214 and 226 of Kuhnhausen's Colt Single Action Revolvers Shop Manual. A properly tuned SAA should not throwby.
 

flatgate

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Interesting rhetoric.

Rugers will often exhibit "late" carry up timing. NM/OM, it happens. Robust cycling of the lockwork will usually rectify the situation. Purists, Yours Truely included, insist on "perfection" with the timing of the lockwork. This entails some "precision" modifications to the hammers "notches", Pawl modifications and hammer plunger adjustments. New Models/Old Models......most need work.

This statement is My Opinion and Only My Opinion and I am not suggesting that you guys modify your guns in any way, shape or form.

flatgate
 

BIgMuddy

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Driftwood

Thanks for the explanation. I have a Munden tuned 3rd Gen SAA and yes, it "throws by" occasionally. It does it just enough to aggravate me. I don't shoot the gun in CAS, just like the tuned action. It has lasted several years with no problems other than the mentioned one.

Now I know why it does what it does.

Thanks again

Dan
 

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