New to forum with a problematic Semi Auto

[davevabch]

Rossi revolvers have always been known to have stiff heavy triggers. I have a older model that is very heavy indeed. However very nice quality. I did get a chance to shoot the New Rossi RP63 and nice gun. We measured the trigger pull at about 11.5 lbs of pull. Again, nice gun. Obviously you can get other revolvers out there with smoother triggers. I would like to ask what does Rossi say about the new Trigger spring they will install? What weight of pull etc.
Since they are not doing a repair, the cost seems very reasonable. Might be worth it.

 

[blume357]

we'll probably argue the break in thing till the cows come in and then some. I also believe a quality gun should work right out of the box flawlessly and maybe with just a tad more lube to help it along..... but with that said I'm not going to take it out of the box unwrap it from the plastic, load a magazine, load the gun and strap it to my side and go out and depend on it for my life. Go buy a brand new Porsche or such and read the owners manual.... or actually I think any new car.

 

[WalterEmrick]

we'll probably argue the break in thing till the cows come in and then some. I also believe a quality gun should work right out of the box flawlessly and maybe with just a tad more lube to help it along..... but with that said I'm not going to take it out of the box unwrap it from the plastic, load a magazine, load the gun and strap it to my side and go out and depend on it for my life. Go buy a brand new Porsche or such and read the owners manual.... or actually I think any new car.

This is an argument that I have no interest in. It is relatively academic to me. I purchase a firearm. I asses it's performance "out of the box". For problematic function, I decide on a course of action. Sometimes it's a function of the firearm, sometimes it's a function of the ammunition, and sometimes it's a function of how I use it. I find the problem and fix it, have it fixed, or discard it. I often consult in the process. To me this is a reasonable approach.

 

[hittman]

My semi auto function problems came to a screeching halt when I decided to buy better guns. CZ, Sig, Glock …. Even the Ruger Commander 1911 in 9mm ….. all flawless right from the start.

 

[davevabch]

All the guns I own, and I own many are reliable. Not to say any gun made cannot have a failure. Yes, I have gotten rid of guns in the past that are not and I detest a firearm that does not hold up to a lot of shooting without falling apart. However there are also other considerations. The gun has to have good fit and feel for my particular hand and a big test is how the gun feels to me personally with a lot of rounds fired in one session. Glocks are great firearms and reliable. However they have never been my cup of tea. I do not like shooting them. Do not like the grip, and hate the damn way they do their trigger guard. Always get a blister on my trigger finger with a lot of rounds down range. Interesting that PSA saw this and designed a much better version.
What I also dislike tremulousness is the VIBRATION when shooting a lot of rounds from a Glock or other loose tolerance pistols.
Yes, some guns with tighter tolerances may have to have a break in. but the reward is that they at least for myself perform much better in handling, recoil control and much less vibration, just a much more pleasant shooter. And once broken in, they perform exceptionally well in all areas.
As I mention on another post. I am fortunate to belong to a club where members with pick out a pistol for example and all of us chip in and shoot a few thousand rounds. Many times with another manufacturers guns and shoot them side by side.
You most likely will not tell that there is much of a difference in the first 50 to 100 rounds, but keep shooting as you most certainly will find that some guns will actually start to give a big discomfort while the other you can shoot all day.

 

[rotor]

If you believe that most guns don't need 'breaking in" don't buy a Rossi. My Rossi RP63 revolver has needed 200+ rounds before the trigger/hammer spring would be easy enough to use one handed.

Guntests just reviewed this gun (Aug, 2024) and they noted 15 pound DA trigger pull and 4.4 pound SA pull so what we are talking about is the design of the gun itself vs. the other 3 guns that they tested. If you wanted a better trigger you needed to buy something else although they gave the gun a "Best Buy". Does this mean the consumer needs to wear out the rough metal parts and spring design by repetitively firing it? That implies that the gun is poorly constructed or poorly designed by the factory and the consumer is left with repairing (wearing in) that flaw. I have had one gun that had multiple problems with the first magazine, it went back to the factory and was returned to me working flawlessly without my needing to put 300 expensive rounds down range. Did the factory (Ruger) break it in or did they just fix it. They never really tell you what they did.

 

[davevabch]

Thanks, I will look it up. I have a subscription.

Just looked it up. The BEST BUY is always a feature they use for a gun that performs well, at a great cost.

Rossi RP63 2-RP639 357 Magnum

$373

Gun Tests grade: A- (BEST BUY)


"The RP63 is a no-nonsense 357 well suited for everyday carry. The sights are large and easy to acquire.
While the 63 looks plain and no-nonsense, it proved to be the most accurate revolver in the match up. It eked its way ahead of the Model 19 with an overall average of 1.70 inches"

Our Team Said: Between the accuracy, cost, and the ease of use, the RP63 is easily a Best Buy. If you want to try a 357 Magnum or want an inexpensive 357 Magnum for EDC, the RP63 would make a great choice. The cost is a fraction of any of the S&W guns, and we would use some of those savings to deal with the heavy double-action trigger.

At that cost, I just might get one. I do want to talk to my friend about what he did for the trigger. At $350 and the extra cost for the custom trigger sounds like a deal. I will also talk to my Gun Smith and see what he thinks about trigger enhancement.

Rossi RP63 2-RP639 357 Magnum - Gun Tests

Gun Tests evaluates today’s most talked about handguns, rifles, shotguns and shooting accessories with utter, ruthless impartiality.

www.gun-tests.com

***** Also note, they said that while that trigger was heavy, it did not feel has heavy with the design and the wide trigger blade.

 

[larry8]

Yes the trigger pull did get a LITTLE less heavy. But for my old hands it was too heavy initially. So after 260++ dry fires it did free up a LITTLE. What I would like to do is install a slightly less strong main spring or cut this one down a ring or two. However I contacted Rossi and they will NOT sell me another spring even though I agreed to pay for it. Apparently they consider it to be "restricted" -whatever the heck that means. It's only a spring for Chri##t sake.

 

[davevabch]

Yes the trigger pull did get a LITTLE less heavy. But for my old hands it was too heavy initially. So after 260++ dry fires it did free up a LITTLE. What I would like to do is install a slightly less strong main spring or cut this one down a ring or two. However I contacted Rossi and they will NOT sell me another spring even though I agreed to pay for it. Apparently they consider it to be "restricted" -whatever the heck that means. It's only a spring for Chri##t sake.

I have a feeling that is going to be a really nice trigger job. Please keep us informed along the way. Looking forward to seening the results. I would not be surprised to see a after market spring emerge down the road.

 

[blume357]

Boy, talk about a drift from the original question....

 

[Bubbas358]

Boy, talk about a drift from the original question....

Yuppers!!! And some of the best things come out of thread drift sometimes.....

 

[WalterEmrick]

Wondering what I'm doing. I've got an SR9, SR1911, and a Browning 22 that I can shoot fine with and the work in my hand naturally. I just got an old friend, a Ruger P95 repaired. It was dropping magazines mid fire and needed a mag release spring replacement. Took it to the range, and wow! My hands just fall into place. Deadly accurate groups every magazine. Zero effort, just happens. Then there's this LCP Max. I'm working my butt off trying to imprint a workable grip and trigger address. Every time I pick it up I have to go through this checklist. I feel like it takes 10 minutes to get a shot off. Not sure I'm not in a freefall into a rabbit hole. I own it now so I am going to Keep working with it but I'm not sure how much effort it's worth.

 

[davevabch]

I still remember vividly when I first jumped on the band wagon of the LCP when they first came out. Man, I hated that thing and a horrible shot. The very first shot almost missed the entire target, Went high right to the very top of the target at 5 yds and hurt like hell. I cursed the stupid gun. I went home that day and the more I though about it the more pissed I got at my self. I have been shooting all my life and this gun is going to get the best of me? NO WAY! I went back the next day, the next day and for weeks shot the hell out of the gun. Over and over. Practice drawing at home.
Fast forward about 15 years. During that time I burned out a lot of these little guns. Shot them till they fell apart. Joined a club devoted to shooting them. Began a love affair with the small barrel pocket guns. Leaned a lot from others. Took a few Pocket gun class Blah blah. Now on any given day I can pull that sucker out and rapid fire head shots at 10 yds with ease. A good day 15 yds. And I find them so simple to shoot, and zero pain. They actually feel like shooting a 22.cal to me now.
The Pocket gun and the Snubbie they are my favorite guns to shoot. I am addicted to them. Now a Micro 9mm almost feels like a Duty Gun.
Point being. You do not have to shoot them as much as I have, but accept the Challenge. Just practice, train and practice some more. Slowly but surely, you will appreciate the gun. Enjoy it. get to know it. It will become your friend.
IMO the Pocket gun is one of the most viable self defense weapons ever made. They can do things other guns cannot and they can do it extremely fast.

TIP-down the road if you can afford it, get the LCPll 22.cal or a LCR22. And use those to shoot frequently. I wrote many times to Ruger to ask them to develop a 22.cal version. I was delighted when they did. (Just wish they had used the GEN 2) trigger.

 

[WalterEmrick]

That is a very thoughtful reply and I very much appreciate it. Thank you for the expression of experience, strength, and hope (an anonymous quote). I feel much less terminally unique in my challenges. This won't happen fast. I do best when I pursue something until frustrated then take a break and resume later. But I am torn between between what am I doing and am I going to let this little thing beat me. At the same time I am constantly picking it up, aiming and dry firing. The little thing does beckon me. My first experience with it was, oh crap, I'm dead. No way am I going to stop a threat with this thing. It feels good to have more reasonable expectations based on your experience.

 

[blume357]

One suggestion... get a laser cartridge for it... one that goes in the chamber and sends a quick laser image / dot when the trigger is tripped. This will help you out a lot with your dry practice. It will show you pretty dern good where the round would hit, at least at short distance. Which is all you want with a small pistol like that. One of the things I've learned over the years, which is a no brainer for most of the folks here, is the grip and feel of semi-autos are different all across the scale. There are some that fit perfect in my hand and some I just can't get used to. I can shoot them all pretty dern good after years of training but still have trouble with a lot of the more popular ones.... the most accurate for me semi-auto with iron sights I own is an FHN 9mm.... dern thing will make 2" groups at 50ft free standing.... but it is a safe queen because the geniuses down in Columbia S.C. put a safety on it. Yep, made here in S.C., actually ended up with it by accident... was buying a S&W shield from a fellow member here to help her out and she sent me the wrong gun... was going to be a nightmare to send it back and so we ending up just letting me stay with the FHN.

 

[WalterEmrick]

Update: Fixed the problems. Picked up a Sig Saur P365. Cycles with zero malfunctions. Magazines hold what they are advertised to hold. Dead on target with 4" groups at 7 yards. Found my carry! Picked up a leather pancake OWB for it and viola!!!!

Bang, bang Maxwell's silver hammer.

 

[Pál_K]

As far as springs, many studies show that it is the compressing and decompressing springs that eventually weaken them, not if they are completely compressed and maintained that way or completely uncompressed and maintained that way. Recoil springs may need replacement after multiple rounds because they are compressed and decompressed with each firing. It is the compression-decompression cycle that weakens springs.

That is correct. Over 20+ years I have spoken with at least four mechanical engineers at work about this very subject (we make millions of electromechanical products, large and small - with gears, springs, levers, electronics - products that go through over 10 million cycles in their lifetime). If anyone is an expert and authority on springs, they are.

Each one of those engineers, plus many others I've heard from, all say the same thing: it does not matter whether a spring is left in a compressed or decompressed state. What wears out a spring are the number of compression and decompression cycles.

There are plenty of instances of magazines that have been left fully loaded for 20+ years that work perfectly. The only time I've known it to be a problem has been with cheaply made AR magazines where the feed lips warped over time.

 

[blume357]

Update: Fixed the problems. Picked up a Sig Saur P365. Cycles with zero malfunctions. Magazines hold what they are advertised to hold. Dead on target with 4" groups at 7 yards. Found my carry! Picked up a leather pancake OWB for it and viola!!!!

Bang, bang Maxwell's silver hammer.

That's a heck of a way to fix the problem.. but I approve.... only because I'm a Sig fan now...(have been for about 10+ years) I think the micro P365 is on my list for a pocket pistol.. Even though I'm not a fan of striker fired.
I have an Sig P290, which is a pocket sized double action only pistol, and it is okay.... but the trigger is awful compared to just about everything else I have.

 

[WalterEmrick]

Yes, I agree, it is a heck of a way to fix a problem however in weighing the options, I'm willing to take the $300 hit. The inaccuracy of the LCP Max, in my hands, is severe enough to harm to non-targeted individuals and property. That makes the firearm a no-go for carry. If it can be fixed by Ruger and if they will address the problem, it will take an indeterminate amount of time to achieve this. If the problem is my inability to control the firearm the timeline to fix the issue is significantly longer than if it can be fixed, and cost of ammunition and time could easily exceed to cost of the Ruger. This fix was immediate. I am confidently carrying my firearm now. I will call Ruger next week and get their take on the problem. There is still the possibility that the Ruger can become a viable alternative or back-up to the Sig in the future. I haven't called the police to have it destroyed yet.

 

[Pál_K]

Update: Fixed the problems. Picked up a Sig Saur P365. Cycles with zero malfunctions. Magazines hold what they are advertised to hold. Dead on target with 4" groups at 7 yards. Found my carry! Picked up a leather pancake OWB for it and viola!!!!

I can understand the OWB holster, but the viola is a mistake. Sell it and get a violin, cello, or bass.