New GP100 22LR FTF

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sjs

Single-Sixer
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Dec 22, 2016
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Just got a new GP100 in 22lr yesterday. Took it to the range today and had one or two failures to fire on every cylinder full.

This was with several brands of ammo, including Federal 510, CCI SV, Winchester Super X, Wolf Match Target and others, so it was not just a case of bad ammo.

I would understand if I had changed springs but it is absolutely stock and, more confusing, it is not at all a light trigger pull and does not feel like a light hammer fall. I have had a number of GP100's and I like their triggers after a good break in but you can hardly call them a light trigger.

I gave a liberal spraying of Break Free, and then One Shot, into the hammer/transfer bar area as well as the trigger after cleaning the revolver today and will try again Saturday, just in case their may have been some grit/gunk in there messing things up.

If it continues I will mark the cylinder chambers in which it happens to see if it always occurs in the same chambers.

I hope I don't have to return it to Ruger, but I am puzzled about this.

Any ideas?
 

NikA

Buckeye
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Yrisarri, NM- high in the Manzanos
Look for rubbing on the sides of the hammer. The way GPs are fitted, sometimes this can be an issue and it certainly could cause a gun to have marginal ignition. The solution is usually to shim the hammer as Ruger does on the MC models.
 
Joined
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Dallas, TX
My first suggestion was to mark the cylinders to see if it is the same ones each time or not. Other than that, I would try and see if this happens with as many different brands of ammo as possible or not.

I had a Smith and Wesson Model 41 that caused me ever so many problems. I tried all sorts of things before I finally sent it back to have it fixed from the factory. It needed a new slide so it was necessary to be fixed by Smith and Wesson.

I realize the GP doesn’t have a slide, but there might be something that only Ruger can repair....

I hope you get it sorted out. Good luck.
 
Joined
Apr 2, 2014
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Sounds like mine when I got it.
I'd be looking at the brass that didn't fire to see if
there's signs light strikes.
Also if single or double action makes a difference.
Mine was ok on single action but at least 10%
misfire on double action.
I pulled the firing pin and reworked the tip, took
some material off the hammer being careful not
to pinch the transfer bar. Hammer shims and plenty
of polishing later I was able to go with a slightly lighter
hammer spring and still have reliable double action.
On the other hand just send it back....I'm sure they're
used to fixing them by now.
Almost forgot...my transfer bar was only covering maybe
40% of the firing pin, got a different transfer bar and slightly
reworked it to get better contact.
Dave
 
Joined
Dec 1, 2007
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Man, the “shovel ‘em out the door” mentality apparently adopted by gun makers nowadays wears me out. At least the junky looking SP-101 I bought last year is fairly functional. The workmanship is embarrassingly bad, though.

It’s like their employees can’t he bothered to do even a halfassed job of assembling/finishing a revolver, and management can’t be bothered to require better from them.
 
Joined
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It’s like their employees can’t he bothered to do even a halfassed job of assembling/finishing a revolver, and management can’t be bothered to require better from them.

That’s kind of mean. Maybe I’m an optimist, but I think people in general try to do the best job they can, even if no one is looking. Not everyone is a lazy, sorry excuse for an employee. People still take pride in a job well done.
 
Joined
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Oregon City, Oregon
Kevin said:
It’s like their employees can’t he bothered to do even a halfassed job of assembling/finishing a revolver, and management can’t be bothered to require better from them.

That’s kind of mean. Maybe I’m an optimist, but I think people in general try to do the best job they can, even if no one is looking. Not everyone is a lazy, sorry excuse for an employee. People still take pride in a job well done.

Okay, giving them the benefit of a doubt, maybe they are doing the best they can. But then maybe they're in over their heads and don't have the training or skills to machine and assemble their guns correctly.

These .22 revolvers have been a problem for some of us, and I'd hoped their woes were behind them. If you cannot get this gun running by performing operator maintenance, then please return the revolver to Ruger and have them make it right. We need to get their attention on this stuff.

Or if you were fortunate enough that this gun came from Davidson's or any other distributor offering a replacement policy, take advantage of it


It's difficult to diagnose a problem without seeing or handling the gun.

Here's one thing to look for...And one of the problems I experienced with my GP-100 .22.

The rim recess in the cylinder was sloppily machined, with burrs remaining in the recess. This can prevent the full seating of the rim in the recess. When the firing pin strikes the rim, instead of the firing pin crushing the rim (and priming mix) between the firing pin and bottom of the recess, the force just pushes the cartridge and rim slightly farther into the chamber, absorbing the firing pin energy. Just one thing to look for.

 

sjs

Single-Sixer
Joined
Dec 22, 2016
Messages
178
Location
SC
Thanks for the advice guys.

Fortunately, my rim recesses don't look like the photo Wayno posted. But, I did get a chance to run to the range this afternoon and things are improved but still perplexing.

I had given it a good cleaning before ever firing it the first time but this time the cleaning seems to have made a difference. I got through 45 rounds before a ftf. After that I had a couple about every 50 rounds, as opposed to a couple every 10 rounds before.

I am not sure how cleaning it can improve things substantially, but not entirely. Still, the photo above gives me an idea that might be nonsense. I have had a double action 22 before but not a stainless one. This time I was watching carefully and the stainless allowed me to see how quickly crud was building up in those recesses. I wonder if that could cause the same effect as the rough spots Wayno discussed?

But then why would the rate of failures not increase as I continued to fire about 300 rounds?

Also interesting to me, the rims of the rounds that did not fire were heavily dented, as much as those that did fire. I also noticed it did not occur with the same chambers every time.

Anyway, I love this revolver and think I am going to mess with it some more before thinking about sending it to Ruger. Maybe next trip the bugs will be gone.
 
Joined
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Oregon City, Oregon
sjs said:
I am not sure how cleaning it can improve things substantially, but not entirely. Still, the photo above gives me an idea that might be nonsense. I have had a double action 22 before but not a stainless one. This time I was watching carefully and the stainless allowed me to see how quickly crud was building up in those recesses. I wonder if that could cause the same effect as the rough spots Wayno discussed?

But then why would the rate of failures not increase as I continued to fire about 300 rounds?

Also interesting to me, the rims of the rounds that did not fire were heavily dented, as much as those that did fire. I also noticed it did not occur with the same chambers every time.

Yep, industrial strength grease can slow down the lockwork. Cleaning will dilute and even eliminate this grease.

And yes, crud in the rim recess can cause the same effect as the burrs in the photo. Why does it not build up further? Maybe with just use, there's no room for further build up.

It seems you know what to watch for, so keep on trucking if you're up to the challenge. :mrgreen:

I've been there. :lol:
 
Joined
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Lemont, PA, USA 16851
Several things.

The not firing moving between different chambers tell me that it probably is the ammo. Even within the same manufacturer/lot number, .22 ammo can be very erratic.

Second, if the gun has not been thoroughly cleaned when coming from the factory, there can still be factory gunk in the trigger/hammer mechanisms. It doesn't take much to affect the fall of the hammer and cause it to not hit quite so hard.

You did say you liberally sprayed into the trigger/hammer area and it did seem to help from reading your other posts. However, you really need to disassemble it to the major components (the manual tells you how, it's really not that hard) and completely clean the trigger assembly, hammer assembly and check the mainspring strut to make sure there are no burrs on the top (round part that seats against the hammer). Smooth that part up and then put a touch of grease in the hollow of the hammer where the strut fits when you put it back together. Also lubricate the parts that need it (I believe the manual also tells you the lube points). Then see what happens. If you still get some misfires then I would chalk it up to some bad ammo since you said you were getting good strike marks. Keep shooting it and see if it gets better with time.
 

pinshooter

Bearcat
Joined
Mar 9, 2016
Messages
28
My GP100 .22 also had many problems, the poorly machined ejector star was one and was fixed with a tool I made to clean them up.

HnETUgV.jpg


I also had misfires with some ammo and when I tried to change to lighter springs I couldn't get any ammo to be reliable. I found that the firing pin was the problem, it had a flat point that required a really strong spring to fire. I removed the firing pin and made the point look like my S&W 617's firing pin. Now it works great with lighter springs. Please note that Ruger won't sell you a new firing pin.

6V4jW1W.jpg
 

m657

Buckeye
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With grief & sorrow this thread reminds of my own problem with the same model, wherein after several dozen rounds the cylinder would actually bind so much it was impossible to rotate with trigger pull.

Factory repair failed several times before they eventually replaced entire pistol.

While the service was admirably rapid, it did not actually manage to provide an effective repair after 3 attempts. I liked the GP100-22 for many reasons, but had lost confidence so much I traded off the new replacement without firing it even once.
 

Carry_Up

Single-Sixer
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Dec 22, 2007
Messages
376
Location
Dallas, TX
A couple of thoughts on this thread. First, I'd like to thank the person who always instructs the owner to give his new firearm a good cleaning. It can't hurt, but it has never been the magic fix for me.

I am amazed at how some people take a new problematic firearm and begin to file and re-machine its parts. Sure it is great to see closeups of what are serious flaws in manufacturing. But not everyone is a tool and die maker with a fully equipped machine shop to take over where the factory left off. And then, what if that person actually needs serious factory service help at a future date? What would a customer service person think when looking at a fully re-machined cylinder? Still under factory warranty? I doubt it.

There are some very interesting clues with this firearm and one of them is that the FTF does not always happen on the same chamber. Certainly the machining burrs on the countersinks have to be eliminated before any further testing - those burrs prevent the cartridges from seating securely in the chamber. Also obvious, but not specifically related to this FTF problem is the cylinder star or ratchet. A finely machined star is the mark of a well-made revolver, but if the cylinder carries up, then the chamber is positioned correctly in relation to the firing pin and to the barrel. The owner didn't mention a carry-up problem.

Nice photos of the firing pin strikes. This model uses a rounded firing pin. That shape is unusual compared with most .22 firearms which use a long rectangular firing pin - and there is a good reason for using that shape. Intuitively, filing the firing pin into a more pointed shape would probably produce a deeper indentation, but also an indentation with a smaller diameter. What is actually needed is a good strike over a larger area of the rim. Obviously YMMV. It worked for one person, anyway. Why not contact the design team and let them know that they should have used pointy firing pins - great.

One reminder is that comparing FTF firing pin strikes with fired brass can be misleading. When a cartridge fires, the case is slammed backwards against the recoil shield and the firing pin, which actually makes the resulting firing pin strike deeper than a cartridge that did not fire. Note that a single action strike will by nature be more powerful than a DA strike. This is not usually a problem, but can come up if the hammer springs are lightened too much.

One more issue that was not mentioned is chamber finish. Even if the rim counter sinking is OK, a tight or rough chamber can also cause FTF and ejection difficulties. Finally with any revolver issue the first thing after confirming correct cartridge seating is to measure the b/c gap, rear gauge (rear gap) and cylinder end shake. These measurements are easy to make with simple feeler gauges and don't void the warranty. And, customer service will love it if you can give them these figures. If it is any consolation, the S&W 10-shot .22 revolvers are also plagued with similar problems. A well made cylinder is the key to a good revolver but also the most time consuming part to produce and fit. That's the story.

-Carry_Up
 

wildcatter

Single-Sixer
Joined
May 28, 2009
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461
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OHIO
I have only ever had one Ruger revolver out of dozens give me any issues, besides cylinder throats being optimum for cast bullets!

That was the Hammer - maybe the transfer bar? But I found it by forcing the hammer against the frame while holding the trigger back to see the firing pin protrusion. It appeared a bit short, and while forcing the hammer and releasing the trigger the transfer bar fell quickly. All good but was the hammer stop protrusion that contacts the frame a bit long, not allowing enough pressure to hammer the transfer bar far enough?

I stripped the gun so I could test this with the cylinder out of the gun, just the transfer bar and hammer, with the hammer pivot pin in. Checking a couple other Rugers I have with the transfer bar system, I found the gun with issues did not have as much firing pin protrusion. My resolve was easy, hone the face of the trigger that contacts the frame, a little at a time till I had as much protrusion as the one with the most that had been sued for years, and loaded extremely warm its hole life.

Reassembled and problem was solved. Yes I do trigger jobs to, and trust me I have never found a S&W or Colt, with a better trigger than a GP-100 is capable of, I do never weaken a hammer spring, and if anything add a heavier hammer spring. But for many, I understand not wanting to touch your gun in any way. But for many, simple cleaning up and honing of parts is nothing to ruin a warranty issue.

After nearly 50 years owning Rugers, my first a Single Six purchased at Wester Auto! I have never had to send one in, I have shot handloads in all as I don't and won't buy ammo, and can't buy ammo except maybe Buffalo Bore, that will perform to my standards in any caliber from 327 Federal, to 454 casull, I ven modify my 22 R.F. to suite me!

So good luck, this gun could have the same issue the one I had did, and in time I can see it getting better. If you don't want to touch it, I would at least recommend thousands of dry fires! Dry firing any new Ruger will do two things, help smooth and breakin the trigger system, as well as tuning your trigger control when doing it purposely! Trust me, all competition shooter who shoot more than most here do practice using dryfirers!

One caution I would throw out there is,,, careful screwing the face of the firing pin, some revolvers can need a different contour than others to avoid piercing rims or primers, S&W and Ruger are not the always safe when machined the same!
 

pinshooter

Bearcat
Joined
Mar 9, 2016
Messages
28
I agree that not everyone has the desire to fine tune their new revolver but in my case I knew Ruger won't do what I wanted done and I enjoy doing it myself. I should have sent my defective gun back but the poorly machined parts were not beyond my abilities and I would still fine tune the next one if they replaced it. I bought the GP for two reasons, first to use as a development tool for a new speed loader and then to see if it could compete with my S&W 617's in the speed shooting sports like SCSA. I did get it very smooth and reliable (the trigger return is smoother than my S&W's) but I later found that the significantly longer DA trigger pull on the GP (for me anyway) pretty much killed it for speed shooting sports, I can't shoot it as fast as the 617. The GP stays home when I go to compete in speed matches but it does make for a smooth reliable squirrel gun.
 

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