New deer regs in MO

[Mobuck]

I guess some of my(and many other landowners) comments have finally received some attention with MDC. New regs for 2023 will allow landowners (with minimum acre requirements) to have input on quality and/or population control by utilizing the so called "Deer Management Assistance Program". A new feature of the program is allowing multiple landowners to cooperate in order to meet the 500 acre minimum. I'm about two football fields short of this minimum on my home place but with this cooperative agreement clause, myself AND 5 other neighboring properties of 20-350 acres can now join the program.
Individual landowners can choose how their and is managed. Myself and the next larger farm are looking for population control (to reduce crop damage)by way of increased antlerless tags. The smaller acreage owners are mostly looking at some sort of antler quality improvement and reducing the pressure on their food plots.
I got motivated and within 24 hours have at least initial cooperation from 4 of the 5 possible participants whose land contributes most to our immediate area over population. I'm waiting on a phone number for #5.
There's always some sticky details but I'm hoping this works out. Best I could determine from the press release, the additional tags are 'assignable' so in theory (and with some consideration) the non-resident, buck hunters can assign their antlerless tags and even more venison goes to 'share the harvest program'.
I'm going to start making the MDC contacts as soon as I get time. There may be some lag due to limited time for either a biologist or bunny cop to look at the land. I hope they show up some evening when there's 30-40 deer munching on the rye cover crop here.

 

[contender]

Good luck with all that!!!!!!!

 

[Mobuck]

My older Son attended the local CWD public meeting a few days back. He had more info about some changes in progress that may allow landowners to manage resident deer populations better.
It's about time. Just a rough estimate that annual crop damage on this farm alone is $5000+(that's right out of our pockets) and we've had over $10K in vehicle damage in the past 18 months.

 

[akbluz]

I pray that this goes your way. You farmers are awesome game managers.

 

[Mobuck]

Thanks for that. I don't claim to be knowledgeable about long term deer management but I DO know what I see. I complained to everyone I met about MDC making decisions that affected the livelihood of those who support the state's game populations w/o bothering to ask us what we think. I'm not alone in this and the comments must have reached a level that demanded action. There was mention that some of our worries were being overridden by a large turnout of sentiment by the 'tree hugger' faction.
We had another increase of CWD reports following the 2022 season which may have some effect on our north farm. If those CWD control rules are emplaced, that's basically wholesale slaughter. I hope it doesn't come to that. It would be so much better to allow more select (liberal) harvest parameters for licensed hunters IMHO.
MDC has never (to my knowledge) paid damage reimbursements or transferable herd reduction permits such as many western states do. MDC answer to crop damage complaints was to offer permits to kill does/fawns during summer leaving the carcasses to rot. Twenty(ish) years ago, I did some crop damage removal on a fee basis but soon got disenchanted with the results. There was no follow up, just put a bullet in them and let them run off to die or suffer--not the way I work.
I'd much rather harvest the meat for those who need food and ensure the animals weren't wasted.

 

[clintsfolly78]

Mobuck I have a? Do you let people you know and that ask for permission hunt you place?
the reason I asked was few years bask was setting in local restaurant having breakfast and the table next to us was the local farmers weekly coffee get together. I knew several of them them. The subject came at their table of crop damage by deer. All complained of all the damage. After a few minutes I was leaving and stop at their table. Shook hand with one that I know well in high school and said I overheard your complaints of deer damage Then offered to come out and remove a few that fall With my muzzleloader I said that I would come out mid summer to see where they wanted me to park and anything to avoid!
1 out of 6 said come see me this summer. The rest " No way just my family hunt. We have about 3 months of some sort of deer season And I was asking just 2 weeks. So shook hands with my high school friend and said see later this summer and then said to the other have a great day and I hope the deer eat most of your crops! When I stopped at his place he told me that I had caused quite a ruckus at the table and a lot of talk was had about giving permission or not!
shoot 2-3 deer a year to eat and several more for his family.

 

[Mobuck]

We don't allow non-family to hunt on either of our farms. The question becomes: why should it make any diff if I (or my kids/grandkids) shoot 18 deer or 6 non-family hunters shoot 3 each?
Another issue is HOW others hunt. I have the equipment to remove several deer per outing w/o scaring the others totally out of the area.
I was asked by MDC if I was willing to allow other hunters to harvest deer and I refused. Don't think this went well but I don't NEED strangers blasting away scattering deer that won't return to feed again until after dark, I NEED tags to 'legally remove deer' cleanly and effectively.

 

[hittman]

Deer hunting regulation changes this fall in Missouri

Some changes have been made to deer hunting regulations across Missouri as hunters gear up for the autumn hunting season.

www.wgem.com

 

[tazbigdog]

My older Son attended the local CWD public meeting a few days back. He had more info about some changes in progress that may allow landowners to manage resident deer populations better.
It's about time. Just a rough estimate that annual crop damage on this farm alone is $5000+(that's right out of our pockets) and we've had over $10K in vehicle damage in the past 18 months.

Does the state have kill permits for animals that eat the crops? I used to issue them in Virginia for deer all the time. Sometimes even bear in cornfields.

 

[Mobuck]

"Does the state have kill permits for animals that eat the crops? I used to issue them in Virginia for deer all the time. Sometimes even bear in cornfields."
Yes and no(typical of gov't regs). Yes, a farmer can apply for crop damage permits. What I've been told is that currently, if the landowner/operator receives those permits and doesn't turn in the carcasses to a cooperating processor, no more permits will be issued.
In terms of crop damage, shooting 2-3 deer and retrieving them from the field quickly enough to maintain edibility is :
1: going to damage as much or more crop as the deer would
2: going to push the remaining umpteen deer into feeding totally at night ending any chance of removing a significant number from the field
It's a planned 'CATCH 22' built into the system allowing MDC to make a display of 'helping reduce wildlife damage' while totally limiting the actual benefit of removing the wildlife in worthwhile numbers.
In reality, there's literally no acceptable recourse for deer damage during the current year. The proper and more ethical/acceptable action is to issue a large number of antlerless tags this year with the expectation of a reduced number for the next year or two before the local herd fills in the void. Removing these deer during the regular hunting periods would allow easer, less damaging access to the carcasses, better meat quality, and less stress on the farmers.
I can present these comments to any group and make convincing arguments but real time farm operators are given such opportunities.

 

[krw]

If you want the deer gone, just shoot em. There is no diff in a nuisance prairie dog, groundhog, or coyote. They are congregated because of the crop. If they are really causing damage financially, let people come in and shoot them, would be making you money!! Or even better, charge a fee to come hunt, now ur killin 2 birds with one stone. Saving money and making money. Now, Do you really want the deer gone??

 

[Gator89]

A Georgia license to hunt deer includes 10 antlerless deer tags and 2 antlered tags. A family of 4 hunters could legally kill 40 does.

I killed 2 does last year.

 

[contender]

krw,, please re-read Mobuck's comments.
First off, "just shoot them" can be illegal WITHOUT tags or during the season.
I work in animal damage control, and advocating illegal activity is wrong.

But "let people come in and shoot them, would be making you money!!" isn't desirable either. Re-read his reasoning. He wants to do it LEGALLY, and within the season, AND be able to NOT waste the meat. "Another issue is HOW others hunt. I have the equipment to remove several deer per outing w/o scaring the others totally out of the area." He uses suppressors, and selects his targets to allow as many family as possible the chances to harvest all they can.
When people pay to hunt,, they expect a lot of things,, and often complain LOUDLY if they aren't successful.
"why should it make any diff if I (or my kids/grandkids) shoot 18 deer or 6 non-family hunters shoot 3 each?"
A very valid point.

If you have property,, and strangers come in,, blasting away,, as noted,, it scares the animals to the point of them changing their patterns. (Going nocturnal.) then the family can't harvest the deer, and fewer deer are taken.

"In terms of crop damage, shooting 2-3 deer and retrieving them from the field quickly enough to maintain edibility is :
1: going to damage as much or more crop as the deer would
2: going to push the remaining umpteen deer into feeding totally at night ending any chance of removing a significant number from the field"

Not many people will pay the amount necessary to cover crop losses,,, especially w/o guides, guarantees, and trophy animals.

In terms of crop damage, shooting 2-3 deer and retrieving them from the field quickly enough to maintain edibility is :
1: going to damage as much or more crop as the deer would
2: going to push the remaining umpteen deer into feeding totally at night ending any chance of removing a significant number from the field.


It's a proven thing, that to do serious herd reduction,, MORE either sex tags,, and especially just anterless tags, can help farmers reduce the numbers of deer very effectively if the proper methods are used.
Sadly,, I've seen state cases where poisoning was used to reduce numbers, and the carcasses just bulldozed into a hole. Total waste AND it cost taxpayer money. I've seen cases where LEO's were authorized to remove excess deer,,, yet, NONE of the ones allowed knew WHAT to do. In a (3) week span, (all allowed by the law,) exactly ONE deer was removed,, when they had a state permit for 25.
PROPER, and ethical removal of excess deer isn't easy. Plus,, wasting meat is VERY unethical,, especially when people go hungry and several organizations could benefit from the meat.

Mobuck doesn't want the deer completely gone. He just wants the opportunity to legally reduce the numbers to where he mitigates the crop damage. It's easy to do,, with the correct approach.

 

[Mobuck]

Contender's comment is dead on: " I've seen cases where LEO's were authorized to remove excess deer,,, yet, NONE of the ones allowed knew WHAT to do. In a (3) week span, (all allowed by the law,) exactly ONE deer was removed,, when they had a state permit for 25."
In north MO over the past two years, volunteering bunny cop employees have used bait, jacklights, night vision, and thermal sights trying to remove large numbers of deer from CWD areas. Inside information indicates that the average WEEKLY kill was 3-4 deer per site(all at the state's expense). Any decent jacklighter can illegally kill more than that per NIGHT.
Also as Contender noted, I don't need help to remove the excess deer. I only need legitimacy(and it won't cost the state a dime).
I choose my target animals carefully and haven't shot a button buck (mistaken for doe) for many years. I choose the older 'long head' does since they're the ones more likely to birth and raise twins.

 

[krw]

I'll stand by my post. I hav shot deer out of bean fields in Ark. Here you hav to drag then to end of row and let them lay
Now, are we worried about the damage? Shoot em. Buck, does, fawns, just like prarie dogs. That will stop the damage.
But your not wanting to just eradicate deer because their eating crops, your wanting to select thin. Longnosed (mature) does and yearling does ( not buttonbucks). There is the problem, bucks does yearlings, buttonbucks eat crops.
Your just wanting to select thin. There is the problem.
Get the right ole boys with thermal and maybe 1/2 gal Makers and they can thin your deer.
And Contender, I am a Farmer.

 

[Mobuck]

Yes krw, we are worried about crop damage. Shot deer don't run between the rows and with soybeans as prolific as we grow(our rows are 20" apart BTW), even running between the rows does considerable damage and most certainly, dragging a dead deer 200-400 yards to an accessible end of the field will leave a trail of mangled soybeans 4' wide. At this time of year deer can only be seen if they raise their heads above the 4' tall beans so even finding a 'run off' in the middle of a 40 acre field may be impossible. You say you're a farmer so you should appreciate the value of a 70-80 bushel per acre soybean crop(for those non-farmers, this is a gross value of $800-1200 per acre).
I'm not interested in eradication but a reduction is in order when I count 15-40 deer picking through soybean stubble AFTER the deer season has ended. Or how about 60-70 deer in a herd in January-February? In a state where CWD is rampant, these concentrations of deer are not good.
How many more points do I need to raise?

 

[Ranger]

It sounds like MO taking steps to allow landowners to better manage the deer population on their land. That can be a good thing if all work together.

There are a lot of factors to consider regarding letting someone hunt your property. Can you trust them to not sue you if they get hurt? Can you trust them to just shoot does? Will they spook the deer from your property during hunting hours (only to hit the crops at night)?

 

[Ranger]

Deer mgt is tough.

We (including siblings, nephews) own a contiguous tract of mixed farmland and woods land that is roughly 2.75 miles east west and 1.5 miles north south. Have attempted to do Quality Deer management with very limited results. None of the neighbors do. Several years ago, I had a really high racked 10 point around my stand for a long time (probably in easy handgun range over 30 minutes); but he was also very young. I raised my handgun once but thought about what a trophy he could in about three years and let him walk. Shortly after I did, a shot came from the direction he walked toward. Not going to be a trophy...
Another neighbor lets almost anyone hunt and reportedly gut shoots all he can.

 

[Mobuck]

^^^ I certainly understand your concerns and it seems you see my side of this, also.
My 'home place' is the only row crop land in an area 2 miles by 3 miles. The surrounding land is owned/leased to/by non-resident hunter types who claim to only harvest bucks so it's easy to see how the number of does has got out of hand.
I presented the DMAP to a neighboring landowner from Iowa a couple days ago. He simply couldn't (or refused to) understand that even though he entered the program, he wasn't required to harvest antlerless deer. He claimed his group only harvests 'trophy size bucks' although his Father told me 3 months ago that they were upset because the does had stripped their food plots before rifle season opened and they only saw a few deer during their hunts. You can't help those who don't want help.

 

[contender]

Sadly,, too many people are (a) hung up on horns & their size, or (b) refuse to believe harvesting does actually helps a herd.