Need case identification help

[Ale-8(1)]

Recently came up with a few brass cases I am not familiar with.

These are about the same size as a .45 Colt case, but are a little shorter and they a little too big to fit in my .45 Colt shell holders.

Headstamp is GA ARMS .45 DA COLT.

Thought perhaps they might be .45 Webley, but my references indicate different dimensions for that round.

Any ideas?

 

[tsubaki]

Mic some numbers on that thing, I'm sure we can find out what it is.
Possibly a 45 auto rim?

 

[Ale-8(1)]

Too long for .45 Auto Rim.

Rim dia 0.519"

Rim thickness 0.540"

Case dia just above rim 0.475"

Case OAL 1.273"

Could be +/- .001" considering my abilities.

 

[WIL TERRY]

THAT LOOKS LIKE the 1909 45COLT cartridge made for the USMC New Service 45COLT revolvers

 

[Ale-8(1)]

Sorta, but the data I've seen for that ammo has the rim diameter at 0.536" or more.

'Tis a puzzlement.

 

[tsubaki]

This is the closest reference I've found to a headstamp with GA ARMS .45 DA COLT.
"At one time Georgia Arms offered a case with a larger rim. It was called the .45 DA [double action]. It was a copy of the .45 Colt (1909) cartridge made for the Colt M1909 DA revolver. The purpose was to keep the small rim of the original .45 Colt from slipping under the star extractors of DA revolvers. I believe it was made for them by Starline."

 

[5of7]

45 Schofield? 8)

 

[Ale-8(1)]

This is the closest reference I've found to a headstamp with GA ARMS .45 DA COLT.
"At one time Georgia Arms offered a case with a larger rim. It was called the .45 DA [double action]. It was a copy of the .45 Colt (1909) cartridge made for the Colt M1909 DA revolver. The purpose was to keep the small rim of the original .45 Colt from slipping under the star extractors of DA revolvers. I believe it was made for them by Starline."

The government made such a case for a while, with the intent you mention, but that wa a long time ago. The ones in question here may have been a more recent attempt at the same effort. But the ones I have are shorter than the usual .45 "Long" cases.

They are also longer than Schofield cases.

Where did you find that reference?

 

[Silent Sam]

Call Georgia Arms.

 

[Ale-8(1)]

Well, yeah . . . but then we couldn't have this stimulating discussion and exchange of ideas.



OK, I e-mailed them.

 

[tsubaki]

Like I said, just a reference!
http://www.sixgun-forums.com/sixguns/content/federal-45-colt-brass

 

[Ale-8(1)]

Thanks.

In searching around the 'net, I have found several versions of the story related to the 1909 evolver, with slightly different dimensions involved for the cases.

I suppose the "standard" for these may have been lost to time.

It will be interesting to see a response fro Georgia Arms.

 

[5of7]

Too long for .45 Auto Rim.

Rim dia 0.519"

Rim thickness 0.540"

Case dia just above rim 0.475"

Case OAL 1.273"

Could be +/- .001" considering my abilities.

According to the 11th edition of Cartridges of the World, it looks like a 45 Colt ctg.

rim dia=.506
Rim thkness= .055
case head-.478
case length=1.29
These dimensions are close enough to what you have that it could be just manufacturing tolerances. 8)

 

[Ale-8(1)]

SAAMI shows Colt OAL of 1.285"/1.265" so that would work OK.

But SAAMI shows Colt rim diameter of 0.512"/0.500" . . . too small. Goes along with the theory that the DA revolvers liked a larger rim diameter.

Guess we need to see what GA says.

 

[Wyandot Jim]

SAAMI shows Colt OAL of 1.285"/1.265" so that would work OK.

But SAAMI shows Colt rim diameter of 0.512"/0.500" . . . too small. Goes along with the theory that the DA revolvers liked a larger rim diameter.

Guess we need to see what GA says.

What you have like was mentioned above. 1909 Colt DA. I have some that are head stamped F A 8 13 They have a larger dia. rim and the case is a we bit larger in dia. The rim is much larger than the old Colt 45s

 

[5of7]

SAAMI shows Colt OAL of 1.285"/1.265" so that would work OK.

But SAAMI shows Colt rim diameter of 0.512"/0.500" . . . too small. Goes along with the theory that the DA revolvers liked a larger rim diameter.

Guess we need to see what GA says.

I just think it is a .45 Colt case. The only difference is the rim diameter, which is only .007" larger than specs. 8)

 

[Ale-8(1)]

SAAMI shows Colt OAL of 1.285"/1.265" so that would work OK.

But SAAMI shows Colt rim diameter of 0.512"/0.500" . . . too small. Goes along with the theory that the DA revolvers liked a larger rim diameter.

Guess we need to see what GA says.

I just think it is a .45 Colt case. The only difference is the rim diameter, which is only .007" larger than specs. 8)

There is that possibility, of course, but all the ones I have are alike, and they will NOT fit into a .45 Colt shell holder. If they would, I'd just treat them as .45 Colt cases and reload them.

At this point I believe they were made for another, similar application, like perhaps the 1909 guns, but we'll have to see what GA says.

 

[Wyandot Jim]

Ale,
I'll say one more time. What you have are made for the Colt 1909 D A Revolver. They would shoot 45 colt but the rim was to small for ejection . The rims on my mine made in 1913 are .536 Dia. The NEW 45 Colt rim as stated is .512. My OLD Colt 45 SAAs are 5.085
You can go to this post of Driftwood Johnson's to see the SMALL rim on an old Colt SAA 45 next to a NEW one. SAAs also had two different cylinder sizes I do believe. Black powder guns were smaller because of the case rim Dia.

http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=183405&p=1832921#p1832921

"While this gun works with the .45 Long Colt, the Army special ordered ammo with a slightly larger rim to work better in double action revolvers, something that was not necessary for the Single Action Army."
Pictures.
http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=29152

 

[Ale-8(1)]

And I'll say that I'm not arguing with anyone here.

The feature that I find just a little questionable is that these cases have rims that are JUST BARELY outside the specified diameter of .45 Colt cases, while all the info I have seen, including yours, indicate the DA cases had rims in the 0.536" or larger range.

Thus, I am curious as to what GA's position is on the intended application for the cases they manufactured, and perhaps when they made them. That's all.

And thanks for the nice links.

 

[Wyandot Jim]

And I'll say that I'm not arguing with anyone here.

The feature that I find just a little questionable is that these cases have rims that are JUST BARELY outside the specified diameter of .45 Colt cases, while all the info I have seen, including yours, indicate the DA cases had rims in the 0.536" or larger range.

Thus, I am curious as to what GA's position is on the intended application for the cases they manufactured, and perhaps when they made them. That's all.

And thanks for the nice links.

OK Ale,
I'll say this TWO more times. I know your not arguing. I know your not arguing. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: You never have.
Anyway now I see what you are asking. I assumed since the rim was larger it was A LOT lager. Shame on me
My 1909 will fit into my Dillon 650 shell plate but not the one that came with the dies My Starline rim is .5095