Most accurate 9mms, .40s and .45s?

[revhigh]

Hey tk !!

Obviously you don't appreciate the difference in accuracy between handguns, and because of that, you seem to think that differences in accuracy don't exist. That's fine, and you own the right guns for that mindset.

Happy Holidays to you and yours !!

REV

 

[tkarter]

Happy Holidays to you too Rev.

When one finds an accurate handgun by any manufacturer they need to latch onto it and keep it.

I keep the Sig around just because I don't sell guns.

tk

 

[revhigh]

When one finds an accurate handgun by any manufacturer they need to latch onto it and keep it.

I don't sell guns.

tk

We certainly agree on the two points above !!! Although I have sold a few in my days. The only one I deeply regret selling was a 4 inch SS GP100 that I foolishly sold because I had just bought a small Colt collection and thought I had too many 357's. I looked for about 2 years before I found a suitable used replacement for that gun. I did find one though ... I'll never part with that 4 inch GP again.

REV

 

[tkarter]

Rev I have also seen guns with the same model and name on them that don't shoot as accurate as another does.

You seem to feel all P series are incapable of good accuracy while you say Sig and CZ are all accurate. I find that hard to believe.

You need to shoot an accurate P series Ruger. Or at least watch someone else shoot it.


tk

 

[revhigh]

You need to shoot an accurate P series Ruger. Or at least watch someone else shoot it.

tk

I'd love to tk !!! I've shot 6 or 7 P-series guns ... 1 P85, 1 P85 MKII, 3 P89's, 1 P91, 1 P95, and 2 SR9's. All have been far less than impressive. I have no issues going from gun to gun and still shooting at a given level. When I can shoot a CZ75, then a 1911, then a GP100, and then a P-series gun, and the only thing different is tennis ball sized groups vs softball sized groups, it's not me ... it's the gun.

Softball sized groups with good reliability is probably just fine for a 2-3 times a year shooter who wants to carry the gun too. I spend at least one day almost every weekend (when it's not too cold out) at the range, and softball+ sized groups would get me laughed off the range (good naturedly of course). People would be asking me if I was shooting a shotgun (our standard joke for a real bad target). Hey Lee, are you shooting your shotgun today ??? LOL.

REV

 

[tkarter]

I understand that. But are you sure it isn't you? You have such a mindset against a P series being accurate you probably will shoot those big groups.

Confidence is everything!
tk

 

[revhigh]

I'm positive tk, the only reason that I have a mindset against P-series guns is because the ones I've shot don't/didn't perform. Believe me, I've OWNED TWO for a year or so, I WANTED them to shoot well, I spent DAYS trying to work up loads in both 9MM AND 40 that would shoot well. It's not like I just tried a few out here and there. I spent my own money and BOUGHT THEM. Why would I BUY TWO guns knowing or hoping they wouldn't shoot well ??? For a while I DID think it was me ... then I thought it was the calibers 9MM and .40. Then I got my CZ75B in 9MM and all of a sudden ... magically .... the 9MM was an accurate caliber that I shot as well as the 45ACP. Hmmm ... let's connect the dots here ... what's different ???? Oh yeah, now I remember ... the GUNS are different !

Trust me ... I have total confidence in my shooting. I can pretty much pick up any gun and shoot it just like all my others. My collection is so varied that a different gun/grip/caliber means nothing to me. It's all sight alignment, trigger control, and breathing, but you already know that !!!

REV

 

[snakespit]

I think it was REV that turned me on to CDNN's sale on P95's.
SS for 279.99 and a 20 dollar transfer. Great gun for 300.00 bucks
He is not Ruger bashing. He just call's it like he see's it.

 

[tkarter]

The rest of you never mind Rev and I arguing about the accuracy of a P series.

We will get together some day and hash that out.

He just isn't getting away with dismissing the P series pistols as he so states so often.


I like Rev.

first pistol I ever seen trashed was a CZ too. The fellow couldn't hit a barn with it inside it.

It shot like crap for me too. Best group was 4 inches. I did tell the guy that the ammo could be the reason it shot so bad but he got mad and only a P89 could live through what he done to it.

Glock lovers need to remember they won't work if you go to hell. They will melt.

tk

 

[revhigh]

first pistol I ever seen trashed was a CZ too. The fellow couldn't hit a barn with it inside it.

I'll buy every CZ75 variation that 'won't shoot'. LOL.

Now, one CZ pistol that I'll NEVER buy (again) is the CZ40B .... about as accurate as the P-91 I also had in .40 caliber. A total piece of junk. I bought that junker from CDNN for $279 brand new and sold it a year later for $300. Broke even. An absolutely horrible handgun with a trigger equal to or worse than any Ruger P-series I've ever shot. DO NOT BUY A CZ40B !!! There .... I bashed a CZ ... and I'm glad to do it ... a complete piece of scrap metal .... better used for a boat anchor.

I, too, hope tk and I can hook up some day for some shooting and some good natured ball-bu$ting !! And a few beers afterwards.

REV

PS ... Glad you're happy with your P95 Snakespit ... If I find one used in the $200 range, I just may take the bait. !! I'd like to run it through the wringer for a few months and a few thousand rounds ... maybe it would make me a believer.

 

[Mike J]

Rev I have seen you post that you don't consider .40 an accurate caliber. Wouldn't it be possible that the caliber is fine-maybe the problem is the guns you were shooting it out of. I can't tell you I can shoot a sub 3" group at 25 yards with any of my pistols because I can't (thats because of me not the guns) but my XD-40 is a shooter. My P-944 isn't too far behind it but the ergos of the XD seem to work easier for me. The scary thing is the couple of times I've shot my next door neighbors Glock 23 I think I might shoot it better than I do my XD. He has changed the trigger to about 2.5 pounds though & I would not do that to a defensive weapon.

 

[revhigh]

Rev I have seen you post that you don't consider .40 an accurate caliber.

Hey Mike !

To tell you the truth, it very easily could be that my .40 experiences have been tainted by having guns that didn't shoot well. However, I have shot at least three other guns in .40 ... the Taurus PT92 variant in .40, the FN40, and the Glock 23, and I experienced the same lack of accuracy in all of them, not to the extreme of the P-91 I had, but about the same as the CZ40B that I had. I DID find that the loads that I worked up seemed to work the best at the higher range of the load scale. The .40 seemed to like to be loaded hot from what I could tell.

I have had others say that the .40 is an accurate caliber, and that certain shooting competitions are dominated by the .40, so, based on that, I have to say that I think that the .40 CAN BE an accurate caliber. My shooting involves mostly 'off the shelf' guns, though, and if I have to do an expensive build to get a .40 that shoots well, I'm really not interested.

When I bought my first 9MM, it was a S&W 39-2, and it was a horribly inaccurate weapon. I sold that and bought a Taurus PT92F, it was a little better, but still unacceptable to me. I gave up the 9 for about 10 years or so. I then found a LNIB P89 a few years ago and liked the ergos, so I bought it for $175 with the box, papers, etc. It shot OK, but I wasn't really impressed, so I sold it. I was at a gunshop and saw a CZ75B on the shelf. I had 1600 rounds of 9MM reloads that I had made up when I had the P89, so I figured for $300 I'd try the CZ and use up the 9's I had reloaded. I knew NOTHING about CZ at this point.

The very first time I shot the CZ, I was absolutely astounded. The accuracy was on a par with my Gold Cups !!! And in 9MM !!! I was really excited about the accuracy and ergos of the 75B. I then started to do a little research on the CZ line, and found that they were highly known for extreme out of the box accuracy. I then started acquiring a few more and was equally impressed with every one, EXCEPT the absolutely horrible CZ40B. Gun or caliber ?? Who's to say which one was the reason for it's inaccuracy ?

So ... in a nutshell ... the above is the reason for my thoughts on the .40, I just don't need it. I have a bunch of 9MM's, a WHOLE bunch of 45's, and a 10MM, which is the REAL .40, anyway.

By the way, I think the XD's are very nice guns ... I'm not really into plastic, but the one's (XD's) I've shot have been pretty nice. I DID, however get to shoot a new XDM that was pretty unimpressive. The guy bought it and sold it within a month. He had an older standard XD that was far more accurate than the 'supposed' M (for Match) model. Who knows ... as you said ... you can get one fantastic example of a given model, and one total dog. Luck of the draw I guess, but I think you CAN maximize your chances for a good one by buying a brand that is well known for exceptional accuracy.

REV

 

[Mike J]

I was just wondering. I got to thinking a while back over on the XD forum someone put up a online match. The guys with the .40's & .45's seemed to consistently have higher scores than the guys with the 9's. Of course there may be any number of reasons for that. I haven't got to shoot much for a while due to unemployment but I had enough cloverleaf groups at about 12 or 13 yards to give me a lot of confidence in its accuracy.
I saw an XDm right after they came out. The counterman was trying to get me to give him my XD for about half what I paid (I had only had it about a year) towards it. I didn't go for it. I think I made the right decision.

 

[revhigh]

The counterman was trying to get me to give him my XD for about half what I paid (I had only had it about a year) towards it. I didn't go for it. I think I made the right decision.

I think you made the right decision too ! No sense losing lots of money on a gun that's just fine as it is.

REV

 

[S&W Fan]

just wanted to add, iv always had great luck with 9mm accuracy. Iv owned a p95, (my 1st gun) and currently own an SR9 and a cz P-01. All of them so far have shot 4 inch groups at 25 yards, but iv managed to get 2.5 inch groups with the cz. CZ makes a great weapon and so far has been the most accurate pistol i own next to my smithnwesson revolver. Once in a while the sr9 does almost as nice as my cz, but im a new owner of it,a nd have yet to break it in, so it will be interesting to see how i improve.
All this aside, my cousin is and has always been a horrible shot, and its a wonder how he survives. That being said, he bought a sig 229 and uses it as his daily carry, and while i believe he only bought it for the name, (he is a rich snob) his accuracy has improved quite a bit over the last year. I dont think that's a coincidence, and the sig has a great smooth trigger to boot. Also, just wanted to add, i know the 45 acp round is extremely accurate. my friend bought a high-point (POS) 45 and took it to the range. The crappiest weapon iv ever seen, but believe it or not, it was very accurate. he calles them and asked how to clean it, and they replied, "you dont. after 10,000 rounds just throw it away and buy another. " i conclude the round is inherently accurate.. i was impressed when he said he paid 150 for it new. still ugly but hey, it shoots the 45, thats what matters

 

[revhigh]

i conclude the round is inherently accurate..

The 45ACP is simply spectacular for accuracy ... by far the best semi caliber ... it's why discriminating shooters LOVE 1911's so much. Until you've shot a quality 1911, you haven't shot the best auto and caliber on the planet.

REV

 

[Mike J]

Unless I'm mistaken High Points are blowback pistols. Their barrels are fixed instead of having to lock up. Which should help accuracy some.

 

[2ndamd]

I can only tell you my experience with a ton of guns I have owned through the years.

9mm
CZ 75 and Sig 226. The cz was a tad more accurate.

.40 cal
I have always treated this caliber as a fighting caliber. Menaing, I use it for CCW and fight training. Training to fight is different than training to shoot. Using a Glock 23/27 I can point shoot very well with the .40. But, seated bench rest for 5 shot groups? The HK p2000 was very accurate with this round.

.45 acp
Without a doubt the Les Bear seems to be the most accurate of the high end guns. But, the difference between group size of the Ed Browns, and Wilsons will be hair splitting. They all make very accurate guns.
But, for a budget gun? The Ruger P90 is awesome. You can pick one up NIB for about $400-$450. The one I had was more accurate than (just a tad) than my dad's $2500 Ed Brown. He made me sell it to him The Ruger P90 is just an excellent gun for accuracy.

 

[S&W Fan]

i would take a good long look at DAN WESSON 1911's if anyone wants a quality 1911 for the money. In my experience, theyre a notch above kimbers in quality, for the same price, and man, i like kimbers. Im currently saving for a new dan wesson cbob. My friend says his commander size cbob shoots a tad more accurate than his kimber sis. ruger is a great buy for the money, but trust me, LOOK at the dan wesson line up of 1911's, read theyre reviews, then look at the price. you will be impressed. it was very smart of cz to buy them out. theyre blowin up

 

[S&W Fan]

woops , sorry, i didnt meant to post that last one twice. just wanted to add, the new dan wesson cbob, is basically the same gun as the new ed brown bobtail commander, at 1/3 the price. Many of the parts on the DW ARE ed brown parts. i read on a 1911 forum a guy bought the ed brown commander for $2900, then discovered the DW cbob for 1100, compared the two, and almost began to cry in the middle of the store. I bleive it too