Most accurate 9mms, .40s and .45s?

[Bkat]

There's a spirited discussion on another thread titled "SR9 value..." and the gist seems to be that the market doesn't value used Ruger semi-autos nearly as much as it does those of other manufacturers, primarily because of alleged accuracy issues.

So, in your opinion, what manufacturers turn out the most "factory accurate" semi-autos in 9mm, .40 and .45? Accuracy is only criteria, not value, styling, durability, functioning, etc.

Bkat

 

[gatorhugger]

Two issues, I don't believe for one second that the public
downgrades Rugers for Accuracy issues.
That is Revhighs take, I think he is incorrect. He has held that
opinion for a long time, frankly I believe him wrong.

Not wrong about Ruger's accuracy per se, wrong that Rugers are
looked down upon because of it.
I don't think it's near the issue he has always claimed.

People buy Sigs and higher priced guns for snob factors and because
they feel there is some inheritant increase in quality. Not accuracy.
Most people can't shoot a Ruger accurately, I doubt they are getting
a Sig to increase their target scores.
They want to say they own a Sig.

That said, I have a cheap Sigma that is exceptionally accurate.
Some guns are just made that way.
But the truth is every name brand handgun can shoot better than 90% of the shooters, so it's a moot point.

 

[tkarter]

I am more accurate with my P89 than I am the SIG P226. The sig jams up too. The P89 doesn't. I carry a P95 I shoot good nuff.

It is all relative to who you are and what you perceive is good for you.

Run down Rugers all you like keeps them cheap for folks like me that isn't looking any other direction in handguns.


tk

 

[Pops 1]

Beretta 92fs

 

[Bkat]

Chill out, tkarter. I'm not running down Rugers. If you had read my post on the other thread you would know I'm a fan of P95s.

 

[ILikeRugers2]

So, in your opinion, what manufacturers turn out the most "factory accurate" semi-autos in 9mm, .40 and .45? Accuracy is only criteria, not value, styling, durability, functioning, etc.

Bkat

I have the best luck with .45's...
Not sure about the most accurate manufacturer... a lot of it has to do with the shooter...more than the gun in most cases. My KP90 is the most accurate handgun I have ever handled, with my Browning Hi-Power a close 2nd. Some of my friends cant hit anything with these guns. I borrow thiers that they are having problems with and tear out the bullseye... :lol:

I would think that every brand has a problem child or design that is not the flagship model, or may have issues. I dont think it's fair to put down an entire brand...now if you want to knock a model or two...that would make sense...

 

[revhigh]

People buy Sigs and higher priced guns for snob factors and because they feel there is some inheritant increase in quality. Not accuracy.

Oh Puh-leeeese Gator. And how exactly did Sig con all these people with lots of money to pay their ridiculous prices for the last few decades ? Sig has had a reputation for outstanding accuracy and reliability in their pistols for 20+ years, and every single test result proves those beliefs.

If YOU or some other members here can't appreciate that one handgun is inherently more accurate than another ... that's fine ... but to claim/pretend that differences in accuracy don't exist, and that the only reason people buy higher priced guns is 'snob factor' is simply ludicrous.

I've seen this many times with a LOT of products ... Colts are overpriced and not worth it ... Rolex watches don't keep good time ... Mercedes and BMW don't make good cars .... Snap-on tools aren't worth it ... the only reason that people buy Sigs is snob appeal.

Almost every single time I've heard a statement like that it came down to ONE thing, and that ONE thing was that the speaker couldn't AFFORD the item in question. Tell me something ... if you could have a Sig or a Sigma for the same price ... which one would you choose ??? Uh huh ... that's what I thought .... why ??

Stupidly overpriced items don't last long if they don't perform in the real world ... show me ONE product that's survived for 20+ years on 'snob factor' that didn't have the performance to back it up.

REV

 

[BuckJM53]

I'm not trying to rain an anyone's parade here, but with all due respect, the big problem when it comes to accuracy discussions of this type is that the only way to truely test the inherent accuracy of any pistol (whether Ruger, Sig, CZ or any other manufacturer), is to set it up on a Ransom machine rest (or equivellent) under controlled conditions (including ammo). Once you place it in the hand of any shooter (no matter how good), you are only able to test the accuracy of the shooter and his or her perceived accuracy of the pistol (no shooter has the ability to be as stable as a machine rest). With that said I think that my P series pistols are far more accurate (at least in my hands) then many pistol snobs would give them credit for. One of these days I guess I'll have to spend the $400 to buy a Ransom rest and give them a proper test :lol:.

 

[FrankSchaeffer]

People buy Sigs and higher priced guns for snob factors and because they feel there is some inheritant increase in quality. Not accuracy.

Oh Puh-leeeese Gator. And how exactly did Sig con all these people with lots of money to pay their ridiculous prices for the last few decades ? Sig has had a reputation for outstanding accuracy and reliability in their pistols for 20+ years, and every single test result proves those beliefs.

If YOU or some other members here can't appreciate that one handgun is inherently more accurate than another ... that's fine ... but to claim/pretend that differences in accuracy don't exist, and that the only reason people buy higher priced guns is 'snob factor' is simply ludicrous.

I've seen this many times with a LOT of products ... Colts are overpriced and not worth it ... Rolex watches don't keep good time ... Mercedes and BMW don't make good cars .... Snap-on tools aren't worth it ... the only reason that people buy Sigs is snob appeal.

Almost every single time I've heard a statement like that it came down to ONE thing, and that ONE thing was that the speaker couldn't AFFORD the item in question. Tell me something ... if you could have a Sig or a Sigma for the same price ... which one would you choose ??? Uh huh ... that's what I thought .... why ??

Stupidly overpriced items don't last long if they don't perform in the real world ... show me ONE product that's survived for 20+ years on 'snob factor' that didn't have the performance to back it up.

REV

I am a tfng to pistols but I agree 100 % with the products. I have a pair of 150.00 Ray Ban sunglasses Yes I paid that much because they are worth it. I also have a 180.00 $ Benchmade pocket knife. it to is far better than any other pocket knife I ever owned. I am a motorcycle tech and own snap on tools and they are worth the money and a much better product than many others. Harley Davidson on the other hand I feel is not as great as it is made out to be. Still a great bike but not as advanced as many others for way more money. So I can see one brand of pistol being of a higher price being a better performer than a lesser priced one.
I could be wrong

 

[revhigh]

Sigs and CZ's (except the CZ40B) are the most accurate high cap production semiautos in 9MM and 40. When it comes to 45's ... the KP90 and the Sig P220 are very fine and accurate weapons for non-1911 platforms.

When it comes to 1911's ... it is a total crapshoot. You can have one Springfield GI at $500 that will outshoot a Kimber Match, and a Kimber match that will outshoot a Colt Gold Cup, and a Colt Gold Cup that will outshoot a Les Baer. THe great thing about 1911's is that ANY quality 1911 CAN BE MADE TO SHOOT great fairly inexpensively.

I would say that as a platform, the Sig P226 family, and the CZ 75 family are the most accurate out of the box high cap production autos. Then Glocks, M&P's, and XD's, including the newly released XD/M's (for Match ... LOL) are about the same. Then Ruger, Taurus, Beretta, Sigma, are about the same. Keep in mind I'm talking accuracy ... not reliability.

With the exception of the recently released Ruger semi's, Rugers have typically been known for extreme durability and reliability. That's good enough for many shooters, and that's fine.

REV

 

[Cheesewhiz]

Buck, I agree to a point, a rest can be the best way to check the inherent accuracy of a pistol.
I'm a good enough shot to grade a pistol on it's accuracy at 50', yes, the trigger may come into play a bit but after some shooting, I normally do settle in.
Most on this forum know I'm a big CZ 9mm fan (no snob factor, I think) and for almost any price, they make a very accurate gun.
I agrre with Rev's assesment in previous posts about the .40. Maybe the round would do better with a barrel around a full 5" or some different twist ratio.
I've shot different .45's but mostly 1911's and that round is very accurate with almost any well made gun, I've heard great things about Ruger's P90 and I believe it. I got a chance again to shoot a CZ97 and it was very accurate, insanely so. It is a big gun but the grip isn't too large for me but again it is a really big gun and heavy when loaded.
I am picking up a 1911 when I get back from Europe but there is still another CZ 9mm that I want.

 

[revhigh]

Harley Davidson on the other hand I feel is not as great as it is made out to be. Still a great bike but not as advanced as many others for way more money. So I can see one brand of pistol being of a higher price being a better performer than a lesser priced one.
I could be wrong

Good point Frank, although, as Harleys go, they've improved DRAMATICALLY over the years, and are a very reliable and quality bike these days. The thing is with Harleys ... many, if not most buyers are buying a way into the perceived 'Harley lifestyle' than buying a motorcycle. Harleys are more of a nostalgic bike, kind of like 1911's are a nostalgic gun. They are not the most technologically advanced product in the category, but people love them all the same. I've owned probably 15 bikes in my life and have never owned a Harley. I currently own a Honda ST1100 and a Kawasaki Vulcan. I've ridden countless Harleys, and never felt the need for one. I think my Vulcan performs better.

REV

 

[revhigh]

I got a chance again to shoot a CZ97 and it was very accurate, insanely so.

I forgot about that one Cheese !! It truly belongs in the P220/P90 grouping that I mentioned above for super-accurate non-1911 45ACP's. It's just so darn BIG. LOL.

REV

 

[BuckJM53]

Buck, I agree to a point, a rest can be the best way to check the inherent accuracy of a pistol.
I'm a good enough shot to grade a pistol on it's accuracy at 50', yes, the trigger may come into play a bit but after some shooting, I normally do settle in.

Cheezewhiz ... I agree with you that a skilled shooter can make a reasonable assessment regarding the inherent accuracy of any pistol. My only point is that if I were making a decision to purchase a pistol solely on accuracy, I would be alot more comfortable with the results of a pistol test off of a machine rest in a controlled setting vs what someone (who's skills may be suspect) might have to say about the accuracy. BTW, I recently aquired a CZ 2075 Rami (NIB 9mm) ... I am very pleased with the performance and accuracy so far (though I can still shoot tighter groups with my P95 :wink.

 

[Cheesewhiz]

Buck, I agree to a point, a rest can be the best way to check the inherent accuracy of a pistol.
I'm a good enough shot to grade a pistol on it's accuracy at 50', yes, the trigger may come into play a bit but after some shooting, I normally do settle in.

Cheezewhiz ... I agree with you that a skilled shooter can make a reasonable assessment regarding the inherent accuracy of any pistol. My only point is that if I were making a decision to purchase a pistol solely on accuracy, I would be alot more comfortable with the results of a pistol test off of a machine rest in a controlled setting vs what someone (who's skills may be suspect) might have to say about the accuracy. BTW, I recently aquired a CZ 2075 Rami (NIB 9mm) ... I am very pleased with the performance and accuracy so far (though I can still shoot tighter groups with my P95 :wink.

Buck, my pinky finger is longer than the barrel on a RAMI :lol: :lol: :lol:, the P95 better be more accurate.

 

[revhigh]

I am very pleased with the performance and accuracy so far (though I can still shoot tighter groups with my P95 :wink.

In my experience, the CZ compacts don't have the same inherent level of accuracy that the full size 75 platform has (expected). Also, part of what you're no doubt experiencing in terms of accuracy is the increased barrel length of the P95, as well as the increased sight radius that the extra length affords.

Either way, both the guns you mention are excellent firearms. The RAMI's are nice, small CCW guns. I looked at them when I bought my G26, but I liked the G26's trigger a little better. Other than the trigger, it was a toss-up. WIth the CZ being far more handsome, that's for sure.

REV

 

[revhigh]

Buck, my pinky finger is longer than the barrel on a RAMI :lol: :lol: :lol:, the P95 better be more accurate.

HAHAHA Cheese ... we posted virtually the same thing at exactly the same time !!!

REV

 

[Cheesewhiz]

In my experience, the CZ compacts don't have the same inherent level of accuracy that the full size 75 platform has (expected).
REV

The P-01's that I own are very accurate, almost CZ75B accurate. They have a sub 4" barrel and would be considered a compact gun, they are light also (forged aluminum frame). I highly recommend that gun. The RAMI's on the other hand chopped the barrel another inch.

 

[810wmb]

8)

all i know FOR A FACT, is my cz75b is more accurate than my sr9 was...by a long shot (is that a pun?)

 

[BuckJM53]

Buck, my pinky finger is longer than the barrel on a RAMI :lol: :lol: :lol:, the P95 better be more accurate.

Cheese .... Certainly the longer barrel and sight radius of the P95 makes a difference (especially at extended distances), however my Springfield 1911 Micro-compact (.45 with 3" barrel) will shoot significantly tighter groups than my P95 up to about 30'. I've also got an extended (14 round) magazine on order for the Rami that should help tighten up the groups (harder to shoot IMHO when the pinkie has nowhere to roost :lol

In my experience, the CZ compacts don't have the same inherent level of accuracy that the full size 75 platform has. REV

Rev ... Based on my experience with the Rami so far, I'm already looking around for a CZ75 platform. In your experience, would you recommend a B, B SA, pre-B, or SP-01 (don't want to fork out the bucks for a Champion)?