Military Brass

[StanD]

A friend has recently ordered 500 rounds of 9mm Remington military/law enforcement training ammunition form Sportsman Guide. This is to be a trial order that we will split to see how it performs in our pistols. I didn't think of it at the time but I assume this is military brass so what kind of an issue will it cause for reloading? Or is it even reloadable? Have any of you used this ammunition?
Stan

 

[NikA]

Might have crimped primers. I haven't run into any other issues with domestically marketed military/police/surplus pistol ammo/brass.

 

[StanD]

Thanks
I've never used any military brass before so I'm not familiar with the issues.
Stan

 

[wwb]

If it is, in fact, headstamped "Remington", or "R-P", or anything similar, it is NOT military ammunition. As such, it's unlikely to have crimped primer pockets..... but unless you intend to reload it, the primer pocket is a non-issue. Shoot it.

 

[Mobuck]

A lot of the current "military"(ish) type ammo isn't. You can easily determine if the primers are crimped. Truthfully, I dealt with crimped 9mm brass in the past and with the current glut of empty cases, it's not worth the trouble.

 

[mikld]

Since you already ordered it, just look at the primer pockets. (And what exactly is "training ammo"? A 115 gr. FMJ bullet at over 1,100 fps. Are they using junk bullets?). I would think if it were truly military it would also have a NATO stamp on the case head. I've seen primer crimps on "non-military" brass and just yesterday ran into some Hornady NT cases that had crimped primer pockets. Removing a primer pocket crimp is a non-issue, at least foe me. It takes just 1/2 second with a countersink chucked in a drill to remove the crimp and it only has to be done once...

 

[StanD]

I have just ordered a Ruger SR9c and it will be my first 9mm. I have only used revolvers in the past and because of all the crap going on and the fact that I'm too old to fight, decided to start carrying something to help out if the need should arise. I figured I better have something small enough that I will carry it and not leave it home so I bought an LCP which has been in my pocket for the last two years. Anyway back to the 9, I've never loaded for a 9mm, have no brass, and am unfamiliar with military ammo. I'm glad to hear that the Remington may not be military brass after all, thank you very much for the information, I'll check them out when I get them. The SR9c will be for fun and at this time I'm not sure I can load any cheaper than I can buy commercial ammo. I will anyway, just because I enjoy it and it gives me something to do. Thank you for the information.
Stan

 

[Tom W]

9mm loads are pretty cheap, but I wouldn't buy loaded rounds just because I enjoy casting and handloading. The last ones I bought were Federal aluminum cased rounds at Wal-Mart for a price I couldn't pass up, especially since I was going to shoot at an outside range and would lose most of my cases anyway... and that was a few years ago....

 

[DGW1949]

A friend has recently ordered 500 rounds of 9mm Remington military/law enforcement training ammunition form Sportsman Guide. This is to be a trial order that we will split to see how it performs in our pistols. I didn't think of it at the time but I assume this is military brass so what kind of an issue will it cause for reloading? Or is it even reloadable? Have any of you used this ammunition?
Stan

To start with, this is not military ammo, nor is it 'mil-spec'.
It is simply run of the mill, brass cased, 115-FMJ 'ball' which is put up in special packaging and being marketed to LE agencies as 'training ammo' instead of being in green boxes and offered to the shooting public as 'target' or 'range' ammo.
As to the 'crimped primer' question...not owning any myself, I can't say with absolute certainty...but...I have seen high resolution pictures of the bases, and CAN say that the primers in the examples I saw did not look crimped to me. Either way though, you may be assured that it is indeed 'reloadable'.

Hope this helped.

DGW

 

[Rick Courtright]

Hi,

My limited experience with military brass says the "crimp" should be fairly easy to see, even before removing the primer. Once the primer's out, the stamped in "ledge" or sometimes three divots that hold the primer in tightly are usually quite prominent. If not, carefully reprime one of the cases: if it's crimped and the crimp's not removed, it will be difficult to seat another primer, maybe almost impossible depending on the repriming tools one uses.

As for removing the crimps, there are numerous tools and techniques to do that job. I used to try to cut them out with a chamfering tool, which worked ok but took forever. I now use a C-H tool on the press and it's both fast and works quite nicely. Dillon markets a depriming tool which works pretty much the same way, except it's a standalone machine so you don't have to change dies on your press (here's someone's cue to remind us why having an extra single stage press or two is a good idea!) Both these tools swage the primer pocket so no metal is lost. http://www.ch4d.com and http://www.dillonprecision.com

RCBS makes an on press tool, as well. It's also a swager. Some folks like it, but the amount of monkey motion involved compared to the two I mentioned seems excessive in my eyes. That notwithstanding, most reports I've seen on it praise the job it does. www.rcbs.com

Regardless of how one does the job, it only has to be done once. So a little experimentation may be in order to find "the right way" for a particular individual, then it's not much work from there.

Rick C

 

[StanD]

Thank you for all the input. It's not like 9mm brass is scarce anyway. The last time I was at the range trying to reclaim my 380 brass, which the LCP throws all over the place, there was a hoard of 9mm brass on the ground. We have a covered pistol bay and out front the brass is probably a couple inches deep for 5 or 6 feet. I usually go up early when there is no one there and sweep out the bay before I start shooting. That way at least I can find my empties that are thrown behind me. Anyway, my friend only ordered 500 rounds which we will split.
One other question, do you find much difference in case length between brands? Is case length much of an issue with 9mm? Thanks again
Stan

 

[wwb]

.......
One other question, do you find much difference in case length between brands? Is case length much of an issue with 9mm? Thanks again
Stan

No experience with 9mm, but I've been shooting and reloading .45 ACP since Moses came down from the mountain. Like the .45, the 9mm headspaces on the case mouth. Unless the case is so long that the pistol can't fully get into battery, or so short that the firing pin can't reach the primer, you have no problems. New brass, regardless of brand, is, in my experience, dead on SAAMI spec, give or take .001". Straight-wall brass length doesn't change much with repeated firing and resizing, so I always run it in batches that have all been reloaded the same number of times; after depriming and resizing, check the length of a few random cases, and trim if necessary.

 

[kmoore]

For me it is a unknown about the 9mms your asking about. I found LE labeled .223 CCI does have crimped and sealed primer pockets. I was silly enough to bring 1,000s home after we shot it. Then looked at it and noted the crimp then gave it away. I have to many cases from federal without crimps to mess with.

 

[StanD]

Well I picked up my half of the 9mm order and am pleased to say it is not military ammo. When we looked it over I commented to my friend that it looked small. I have been measuring the over all length of each brand and recording it so I will have a reference later. I have picked up a bunch of cheap stuff for initial practice when my SR9c arrives and they measure as follows: Blazer 124 gr., 1.15 in., Blazer 115 gr., 1.155 in.,Magtec 115gr., 1.155 in., Winchester white box, 115 gr., 1.161 in., This order of Remington 9mm, 115gr., 1.113 in. That seems a bit short but I can't find any info on minimum length in any of my books so I suppose it will be fine. Maybe it's time to buy some new manuals.
Stan

 

[NikA]

The min OAL will depend strongly on the shape of the bullet; most will end up with approximately the same amount of cartridge capacity behind the bullet for a given bullet weight regardless of shape. Lee lists min OALs for 115gr in 9mm from 1.077" to 1.169", but it's a collection from various sources and as such doesn't give a whole lot of specifics on bullet shape. I wouldn't worry about it with factory ammo given the amount of liability these companies are carrying in distributing to the general public. When you get ready to actually load, see if the powder manufacturer can give you more specific data (their free packets are often quite helpful and specific).