M77 Original Tang Model .243 Barrel Issues

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RickKr

Bearcat
Joined
Dec 24, 2022
Messages
5
Location
Halfway, OR
Helping a friend who has let the muzzle of his M77 rust badly. We've cleaning and oiled it but it looks like the crown is rusted badly enough it needs to be bobbed. Or, if bad enough, re-barreled. I have it and am taking it back to my gunsmith for evaluation and identifying options. The rest of the rifle is is great shape. From what I have found, it seems likely it is a 1:10 and probably 22" long, although when I measured it, I thought it to be 20".

I won't be surprised if the barrel needs to be shortened 2". One question is how will it perform if it is shortened that much. If rebarreling, should we consider going any longer than 22"? My friend is not an experienced shooter. While I am into handloading, he is not and so I expect he will shoot factory rounds. He's a farmer (cows), not a hunter, that got it as a varmint rifle. However, I do not expect him practice much to be much of a shot. We live 8 hrs apart so it isn't like my insterests/influence will alter his activities.

I'm interested in your thoughts on this situation and barrel options.

Rick

BTW, first post here, but I'm glad I found the forum. I have a 1990s era M77 in .270, a Ruger American 10/20 22LR and a 1971 Blackhawk in .357 Mag.
 
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gunzo

Buckeye
Joined
Sep 8, 2010
Messages
1,988
Location
Kentucky
Welcome Rick!
If cut back, say, 2" the rifle will likely loose 30-50 fps muzzle velocity, not a big deal IMO, less than 2% loss.
It sounds like the rifle is basically just a tool, no way I'd spend the money to have it re-barreled, provided that it can be saved by nubbing it back a bit. It might sound a little louder, but it will be handier around the farm, in & out of the truck/tractor, etc.
But,, the smith might be able to re-crown it or simply lap it a bit & save it without any extensive work or cash.
Hope this helps a bit, JMO. Keep us posted.
 

RickKr

Bearcat
Joined
Dec 24, 2022
Messages
5
Location
Halfway, OR
Thanks. Yes, I agree and Bill is more inclined to just buy another rifle than put much money in this one. I was thinking 25-50 fps as well. He has had a shoulder replacement twice and is concerned about recoil. I know the 243 is known for being light recoil, but I've never shot one to know how it compares (mine are 22-250, Wby 257 Mag, 270, 308, 30-06). My smith suggested installing a muzzle brake which would further lighten the recoil and moderate any louder report due to bobbing.

Rick
 
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RickKr

Bearcat
Joined
Dec 24, 2022
Messages
5
Location
Halfway, OR
Do we know for sure that accuracy is negativeñy affected? I'd shoot it first before cutting it. Ive seen some rough looking barrels shoot ok.
No, we don't know how or whether accuracy has been affected. Shooting it to find out will happen before any modifications are made, as will a careful examination of the entire rifle by my gunsmith. I was mostly inquiring about how shortening might affect it. I'm still a few days away from returning home where my reloading stuff is and weather needs to lighten up a little to make it feasible. Where I have to shoot is pretty exposed.
 

Black Fly

Single-Sixer
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
466
Location
Lake Nice, VA
I have one of the M77 RLS's in 243. The barrel is 18.5 inches. It is handy and shoots pretty much anything I've shot in it into 1 1/4 " or less. Some loads amaze me. It has what I believe one of those awful inaccurate Wilson barrels. I haven't chronographed loads, but the trajectory with it does not seem much different from the other 243's I've had. A couple ounces of weight don't seem to make a difference in felt recoil.
All that to say, try it as is,if it shoots patterns trim the length if it will get rid of the pitting recrown and try again. Some pitted barrels shoot pretty good groups in spite of the pitting.
Good Luck,
Bfly
 
Joined
Dec 24, 2009
Messages
529
Location
Flat Rock, NC
If it is cut back 2 inches the concern is not the loss of 50 fps, but the increased accuracy improvement. The rifle should be a 1 - 1 1/4 minute rifle with a Ruger barrel. I suspect, based your description of the individual, he would not be able to appreciate a rifle that shoots sub-minute.
 
Joined
Mar 29, 2017
Messages
1,743
Location
Idaho
Unless the barrel is obstructed, and it sounds like not. Take it to the range 1st.
Just to mention: When you measure a barrel and start at the front of the receiver you come up short since the barrel goes into the receiver. More accurately if needed is close the bolt on an empty chamber place a rod down the barrel, mark rod at muzzle, remove and measure. But really with this gun and if the barrel needs recrowned or cut shorter and recrowned the method used for measurement is not important. The gunsmith will let you know when it's done.
 

Paul B

Hunter
Joined
Dec 4, 1999
Messages
2,131
Location
Tucson, AZ
Well, the minor velocity loss is well agreed upon so my thoughts are cutting two inches off the barrel may or may not improve accuracy. A proper crown after the cut would result in either no accuracy loss ormaybe a slight improvement. If the barrel cut is properly squared off prior to crowning, there should be no change in accuracy. Probably better groups too as the barrel is now a bit stiffer after being shortened.
Paul B.
 

RickKr

Bearcat
Joined
Dec 24, 2022
Messages
5
Location
Halfway, OR
Unless the barrel is obstructed, and it sounds like not. Take it to the range 1st.
Just to mention: When you measure a barrel and start at the front of the receiver you come up short since the barrel goes into the receiver. More accurately if needed is close the bolt on an empty chamber place a rod down the barrel, mark rod at muzzle, remove and measure. But really with this gun and if the barrel needs recrowned or cut shorter and recrowned the method used for measurement is not important. The gunsmith will let you know when it's done.
I have just arrived home and one of my tasks will be to load some rounds for this rifle and go out and shoot it, as you and others have suggested (and I've always intened to do). I've located a few "pet loats", but if anyone has some good loads, I'd be interested in hear what they are.
I have:
Bullets: 80 gr. Sierra SBT Blitz, 87 gr. Hornady V-MAX, and 108 gr Hornady ELD-Match,
Powders: IMR4064, IMR4350, IMR4895, AA4350, H4831, Varget and RL-25

I have figured out how to properly measure the barrel and it is 22". My sense of the pitting inside the barrel extends about 1". I have substantial machining capability, but I have no interest in performing any on this work myself. My gunsmith will do all work on this rifle.
Another option to consider is having the muzzle counterbored to remove the pitted portion of the barrel.
A different friend suggested this as well. I struggle to understand the advantage over simply shortening it that same length. It seems like it only has the chance of adverse effects. This also will be explored fully with my gunsmith and only he would do it. The owner is likely interested in a muzzle brake, so that needs to be factored in.

Thanks everyone for your comments,

Rick
 
Joined
Dec 1, 2007
Messages
2,698
Location
Texas
Advantage to counterboring: If the rifle has sights on it, you'll still have sights. You also have a good degree of protection to the "crown" of the barrel, since it's down inside the barrel. If your friend carries his rifle muzzle down in the cab of his vehicle that can be a good thing.

And I'm not sure a muzzle brake is going to be less noisy, my experience has been that they don't help any in that regard, and that sometimes they seem to make it more annoying. Does your friend use the rifle on targets of opportunity? Does he always have time to put on ear protection before shooting at a predator? It's not like a .243 is a heavy recoiling rifle.
 

bobbill

Bearcat
Joined
Dec 12, 2022
Messages
45
Location
SE MN - Winona
Accuracy might benefit from an application of fine grind paste at muzzle with fine
Dremel tool.....barrels can be tamed....with TLC crowns....careful, IMO....
 

RickKr

Bearcat
Joined
Dec 24, 2022
Messages
5
Location
Halfway, OR
Advantage to counterboring: If the rifle has sights on it, you'll still have sights. You also have a good degree of protection to the "crown" of the barrel, since it's down inside the barrel. If your friend carries his rifle muzzle down in the cab of his vehicle that can be a good thing.

And I'm not sure a muzzle brake is going to be less noisy, my experience has been that they don't help any in that regard, and that sometimes they seem to make it more annoying. Does your friend use the rifle on targets of opportunity? Does he always have time to put on ear protection before shooting at a predator? It's not like a .243 is a heavy recoiling rifle.
I'll take it up with my gunsmith. How much clearance in the counterbore? This gun has only a scope, no sights. Are there potential disadvantages? How does a counterbore differ/compare with clearance in a muzzle brake (I am completely unfamiliar with muzzle brakes, other than knowing what they are and what they are intended to do)?

This guy doesn't carry it anywhere, really, at least not yet. I've only ever seen him driving his tractors around the farm. I believe he thinks he would use it on targets of opportunity, but by not keeping it handy, it is likely any opportunities will be gone by the time he retrieves the gun. He has had the gun for six years and never shot it. It got rusty by sitting in a cabinet in his barn. He's probably never thought of the need for hearing protection. There's a good bit of education that needs to happen here.

I've not raised the matter of a muzzle brake increasing the sound. Once the muzzle is taken care of, I think he needs to shoot it first, before considering a muzzle brake. He may be fine with the recoil as is and clearly he has no idea what the muzzle blast is like now. Mentioned earlier, his concern about the recoil is that he has had two shoulder replacements and is concerned about what the recoil might do.
 

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