RC44Mag
Buckeye
I have a bunch of guides and strippers around here somewhere but threw them in a bag when I took that damn guide off when I mounted a Sadlack scope mount on.
M14/AR10 and the military
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5.56 exists so they could let Women and Sissies into the Military!!!
The SATU (Small Arms Training Unit) building had a ton of "relics" in it. The building, even in the 80's was in very poor condition. We only used one classroom. The rest was filled with all sorts of old equipment that had collected there over the years. Our Gunner (Weaps Dept OIC) made one of his surprise visits to us. He would do that when there wasn't a lot on the schedule. The ranges were not main side. We were out in the training areas, and to ourselves. So Gunner would make a trip to the range office when he knew we were not there. He was a very "tidy" Gunner. Our cammies needed to be perfect, 8 point covers needed to be sharp, boots clean, and hair "high and tight". If he saw us main side at the armory, he would instantly head to us and inspect us and anything around us. He was a fun guy.....anyhoo one day we came back to the range office and there was a note on Chiefs (at the time) desk. It read "Make SATU ready for use". We laughed, but Chief was deadly afraid of Gunner....and spiders/snakes/mice but that's another story lol. So myself and AO1 (at the time) headed over to SATU and rummaged through it. Among the tons of other cool stuff we found can after can of stripper clips and guides. Have no idea why they were saved. They were disposable. There were some cans of empty bandoliers and mag pouches also.....I wish I had grabbed a couple of them.
In the 80's/early 90's the bandoliers were not issued (not at any of my commands anyway). However, M80 and also M855 (5.56) often came in the cardboard boxes on stripper clips. Each can came with stripper clip guides....so they accumulated. For whatever reason.
Oh, and SATU was never really made "ready for use". Desert Shield started and there wasn't much time to field day the range office let alone clean up SATU. Not to mention Gunner transferred....the new Gunner was a blast. The new Chief was also a blast.....once the initial rush of Shield calmed down the range office turned into what can only be described as a sort of "Animal House" atmosphere....when the new Gunner showed up there was a good chance we were wearing green tees, dive shorts, boonie hats, Oakley shades and catching a tan on the top of the range office or hood of the range truck......he would always ask "any snake on the grill?"....and eat chow with us....Life was good then.... He swore me in on my second reenlistment ceremony held on Charlie range. RIP Gunner Borden.
Killer Bee
Single-Sixer
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2011
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strippers are good for more than one use 
got a lifetime supply of once used strippers and spoons
preloaded on strippers is nice too!
got a lifetime supply of once used strippers and spoons
preloaded on strippers is nice too!
My gawd that brings the memories back to light of day......suddenly the web of my right hand is thinking it's cut open.......after so many you got a little complacent....
Enigma
Hunter
One huge consideration that effected the development and adoption of the M14 was money. As in, Big Army was broke, and Congress wasn't throwing money at the DOD. After all, the next war would be nuclear, and you don't need a new rifle to sling nukes with. What money the Army was getting went towards nuclear war with things like the Little David (atomic mortar), and the Atomic Cannon. The Army had been working on improving the M1 since the middle of WWII, and they pretty much had it where they wanted it by then - perfect to fight the last war wtih. Congress required that any new rifle that was adopted had to be manufactured with the machinery and tooling used for the M1, with the maximum possible number of interchangeable parts carried over. Big Army lied, and told Congress 'sure, we can do that!' As it turned out, the machinery and tooling part didn't happen, as most of the machinery and tooling for the M1 wasn't able to be used for the M14 for various reasons. There were also only a relatively few parts that were interchangeable with the M1. So yes, the Army tested the FAL, AR-10, and doubtless other rifles against what became the M14. I don't think that any of them ever stood a real chance of being adopted over the M14, both because of funding, and the 'NIH' syndrome - Not Invented Here. It wasn't invented here, so it can't possibly be any good.
el caminero
Buckeye
ARVN seemed to prefer the m1 carbine to the m16, but there exist pics of arvn with m14, and not looking uncomfortable in the least.
el caminero
Buckeye
Theres a yootoober has a garand in .458 win mag. Could do with a bit of development.
I want one.
The answer to the question why the change from M14 to M16 has been in print for many years. Several touched on it. Without me going back and looking all that up, as I recall as was mentioned weight: the weapon and ammo. Cost: the weapon and ammo. Those where the why.
Where the people who made that decision correct? Likely from looking at it from seated behind a desk in Washington, yes.
Looking at that decision from a soldier needing a rifle to save his life and work in battle, it was wrong at the time.
Where the people who made that decision correct? Likely from looking at it from seated behind a desk in Washington, yes.
Looking at that decision from a soldier needing a rifle to save his life and work in battle, it was wrong at the time.
RC44Mag
Buckeye
Good story
The only time I saw stripper clips in uniform was at the range qualifying with the 14, we loaded our own magazines. Other times the GM's had that duty. I rarely drag out the Springfield any more. With winter coming I'll wait for spring to drag it out and stretch its legs, it's been too long.
RC44Mag
Buckeye
They're tough little fellas. The VC had tons of carbines also, got the stash from the ones we gave the French from whooping them at Dien bien Phu
I have shot the M-1, M-14, and M-16 in competition. Many years ago I shot an 'M-14 match' at 1000 yards at Quantico. I doubt that the M-16 will reach that far. Weight and cost were the demise of the 14.
freakindawgen
Blackhawk
I had an AR, sold it and got this.
GMs? They are just Ordies w/out wings!Good story
The only time I saw stripper clips in uniform was at the range qualifying with the 14, we loaded our own magazines. Other times the GM's had that duty. I rarely drag out the Springfield any more. With winter coming I'll wait for spring to drag it out and stretch its legs, it's been too long.
When we had "ribbon shoots" and Watch Stander quals the SAMIs had to load all the mags.....and so that usually fell on the junior SAMI which was me for awhile until a couple more rotated in. Junior SAMI was also stuck with collecting all weapons after the shoot and transporting back main side to armory. But the worst, was junior SAMI had to stay back with remedial shooters who could not pass the required basic watch stander qual....that was some very early mornings and late secures......
Take a look at what the AR platform/223 can do at 1000yds in F Class matches.....you may be surprised.
I distinctly remember shooting 800 yards with my A2.
Killer Bee
Single-Sixer
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2011
- Messages
- 249
can't recall how far I've stretched my A2 Colt HBAR on the left, maybe 600 yds measured distance at Angeles, who knows out in the Mojave
but I do know this, my M&P10 next to it will out distance that HBAR every day of the week and twice on Sunday
but I do know this, my M&P10 next to it will out distance that HBAR every day of the week and twice on Sunday
Hey Bee.....nice woodpile...
The issued A2s held their own at 800yds....flipping the 0-2 aperture was a must
The issued A2s held their own at 800yds....flipping the 0-2 aperture was a must
Just looked at a firing line of "F Class" rifles and didn't see any stock M-16s. I never said the 223 wouldn't get out that far, I just questioned if the M-16 would be able to.
| M16 rifle | |
|---|---|
| Muzzle velocity | 3,150 ft/s (960 m/s) |
| Effective firing range | 550 m (601 yd) for point targets, 800 m (875 yd) for area targets |
| Maximum firing range | 3,600 m (3,937 yd) |
You're going to need a fair bit of luck to hit what you are shooting at when reaching out 1000 yards, but I would say it is possible.
