Lipsey 44 special

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Revolver-Time

Single-Sixer
Joined
Apr 10, 2009
Messages
216
I was fortunate enough to find a 4 5/8 " example of this revolver several months ago. I really enjoy shooting it. I probably only have about 500 rounds thru it but have already noticed some flame cutting going on. I have used reasonably soft loads in it with 240 gr. lead bullets at about 750 fps. I am somewhat surprised to see the flame cutting.
 

Jeff Hoover

Blackhawk
Joined
Feb 25, 2009
Messages
919
R-T, are you sure it's flame cutting ? I'd really be surprised, especially, with such mild loads, and only 500 rounds. Sometimes I get a small ridge of lead build-up at the barrel/cylinder gap. When you look to either side of this ridge, it may appear to be a furrow. See if you can scrape anything off the underside of your frame, where you see the flame cutting. Use a small screw driver, or dental pick. I'm pretty sure that ridge will come right off.
 

Revolver-Time

Single-Sixer
Joined
Apr 10, 2009
Messages
216
No, it is flame cutting alright. I put a dental pick down in the groove. I know what you mean though. I am very surprised too. I have a couple of other blackhawks (different chambering) with many, many more rounds without flame cutting.
 

c.r.

Single-Sixer
Joined
Apr 23, 2008
Messages
436
i have a new model ruger that has what kind of appears to be flame cutting. However the gun was never fired.

Upon closer inspection it looks more likely to be partial threads. Kind of like when Ruger was threading the frame, the tap left a mark or two on the underside of the top strap. you can't see it from the side.

your's could in fact be flame cutting, however i've convinced myself mine is from the tap.........right or wrong :lol:

And then there is a ruger single six that I have with a rather large casting mark in the same location. I suppose my mark could also be from a little over zealous grinding to remove the casting mark on my particular example.

jmo,
c.r.

edit.............. and honestly off the top of my head, i do believe it is one of my NM flattop 50th anniv. 357's
 

BowenBuilt

Bearcat
Joined
Dec 20, 2008
Messages
52
With lead bullets at 750 FPS I can guarantee you it's not flame cutting unless the frame material is as soft as butter. I would send it back and let Ruger replace it and I am sure they will take care of the problem without any protest. Sorry you had the bad experience as it seems to be more the normal anymore.
 

JimMarch1

Blackhawk
Joined
Feb 19, 2007
Messages
525
Um....is it possible the gun IS being flame-cut, and it's from a bad heat-treat of some sort? In which case, the gun might actually be unsafe?

Because 240s doing under 800fps is a load I would absolutely not link to flame-cutting, normally.

I think that gun might need to go visit Ruger, after a phone call to same...
 

BowenBuilt

Bearcat
Joined
Dec 20, 2008
Messages
52
If the frame was that soft the gun would have come apart on the first shot. Have you ever seen the little tab of metal S&W is using on the frame of the titainium guns? If you can't cut that little thin strip of metal into with a .44 or .41 mag. full house jacketed load I seriously doubt that what he is seeing is flame cutting.
 

JimMarch1

Blackhawk
Joined
Feb 19, 2007
Messages
525
If the frame was that soft the gun would have come apart on the first shot.

Not necessarily!

He's shooting a pretty mild load. The cylinder is taking most of the pressure. Original Colt SAAs were made out of cast iron for cryin' out loud. I suspect that for this particular gun/cartridge combination, this frame when in good condition is capable of handling a LOT more power than the 44Spl can dish out, likely by over 200% if everything is good.

Or put another way: in terms of stress on the FRAME, I'd be willing to bet the 357 version of that gun is under more stress with top-end loads than the 44Spl version.

Therefore, a bad heat-treat on a frame that's only running at half strength might still easily digest 500 rounds of mild 44Spl without drama of any sort.

IF this is what's going on, it could turn around and bite him at any time, either from a slightly over-pressure round or if he attempts to shoot anything serious in it, 250gr hardcast out past 1,100ish or so. OR, it'll suffer from slow "stretching" sort of like happened with the earliest S&W stainless guns.

If it's flame-cutting, and yeah that's a big "if", it needs to go back to Ruger to get the cylinder frame Rockwell tested in an unobtrusive place, like say under where the grip frame meets.

Remember, we have reports of what appears to be a "tray load" (however many that is!) of LCRs that seem to have skipped a heat-treat step and yet again are suffering rapid erosion. Two people have reported this issue that I know of and yet the guns still held shooting 38Spl.

It seems quite possible to me that the 44Spl could have had the same thing happen.

---

On the flipside, it's possible that what the owner of this gun is seeing is a pattern of lead or crud deposits that have a channel in the middle that looks like flame cutting but isn't. Shooting plain lead bullets, this is perfectly plausible. If it hasn't been done already I'd try cleaning the area in question with standard methods compatible with blue guns, do a thorough job and then re-evaluate.
 

Revolver-Time

Single-Sixer
Joined
Apr 10, 2009
Messages
216
I will try to get a good picture tonight. I have cleaned it and I am telling you all it sure looks like flame cutting to me. :shock:
 

Revolver-Time

Single-Sixer
Joined
Apr 10, 2009
Messages
216
I am sorry but my sad digital just will not photo that area well enough. But I pulled the cylinders from my 50th 357, my old model flattop 357 and my 50th 44 mag. All of these pistols have been fired with more and hotter loads. No flame cutting on these. I scrubbed that area on the lipsey 44 with #9 and a brass brush and I am positive what I have is flame cutting. I will call Ruger tomorrow and ask for a shipping label. Man I am dissapointed. I really like this revolver. I will post what Ruger says.
 

Revolver-Time

Single-Sixer
Joined
Apr 10, 2009
Messages
216
So, I tried to call Ruger today and got a message "Due to unforseen circumstances the office is closed today. Please leave a message." So I left a message and phone number but I will try to call again tomorrow. :?
 

Revolver-Time

Single-Sixer
Joined
Apr 10, 2009
Messages
216
Ruger called me back today and said to ship it in and they will look at it. The also said they have had no reports of hardening issues. I explained that I have several other Blackhawks and have not seen this type of damage. So off it goes tomorrow.
 

Revolver-Time

Single-Sixer
Joined
Apr 10, 2009
Messages
216
Last week Ruger called to tell me they removed the barrel and determined that the marks were from cutting the threads on the frame and not gas cutting. They said they were going to put the barrel back on, refinish the gun and send it back. Today my FFL called me and said Ruger just informed him that they were not going to fix my gun and they were going to ship a new gun when it becomes available. Something is wrong somewhere! Now I am out $35.00 shipment and Iguess another transfer fee for the new pistol. Plus, I thought the Lipsey 44spl was sold out. where will a new one come from and when?
 

c.r.

Single-Sixer
Joined
Apr 23, 2008
Messages
436
Revolver-Time":2vw7irxk said:
where will a new one come from and when?

Ruger has made the new model flattop 44 specials cataloged/production items for 2010. both lengths, the 4 5/8" and the 5 1/2".

~c.r.
 

BowenBuilt

Bearcat
Joined
Dec 20, 2008
Messages
52
It was not flame cutting, Ruger is going to fix it and Jim March is still a tool. I guess the world is back to normal.
But seriously, I'm glad to hear they are fixing you up and it was really nothing serious.
Cheers,
BB
 

Revolver-Time

Single-Sixer
Joined
Apr 10, 2009
Messages
216
BowenBuilt":289wl4qj said:
It was not flame cutting, Ruger is going to fix it and Jim March is still a tool. I guess the world is back to normal.
But seriously, I'm glad to hear they are fixing you up and it was really nothing serious.
Cheers,
BB

If it was nothing serious why do you suppose they are not going to fix it? I would think the fix would be less costly than sending a new one.
 

c.r.

Single-Sixer
Joined
Apr 23, 2008
Messages
436
Revolver-Time":1sl2046u said:
why do you suppose they are not going to fix it? I would think the fix would be less costly than sending a new one.

there really is no way to "repair" the frame where the thread was cut into the underside of the top strap. Maybe weld it then clean it up. they could maybe run into the risk of it warping from the heat. Possible make the frame more brittle.......maybe a liability issue. All of that might be a higher cost/liability to ruger than simply replacing the gun. There aren't even that many smiths that like to weld on frames

I'm just guessing here......... but Ruger might be thinking that since you weren't satisfied w/ the revolver when you sent it in, then you wouldn't be satisfied with receiving it back in ths same shape..............so they're giving you a new one w/o the line cut in
 

JimMarch1

Blackhawk
Joined
Feb 19, 2007
Messages
525
>>It was not flame cutting, Ruger is going to fix it and Jim March is still a tool.<<

Say what? Read my post again. Look at the number of times I said "IF this was flame-cutting"...
 

edlmann

Blackhawk
Joined
Apr 6, 2009
Messages
785
c.r.":gwsk0m12 said:
Revolver-Time":gwsk0m12 said:
where will a new one come from and when?
Ruger has made the new model flattop 44 specials cataloged/production items for 2010. both lengths, the 4 5/8" and the 5 1/2".

Based on the catalog numbers posted in the new catalog, it appears these pistols will be built on the medium frame. (I noted earlier that the catalog numbers show 4 5/8 and 5 1/2 barrels but the chart in the catalog shows 4 5/8 and 6 1/2.) Many are assuming that these will be flat tops but I've seen nothing from Ruger confirming this. I don't think we'll know what these actually are until regular production pistols start shipping.
 

Dale53

Blackhawk
Joined
Aug 29, 2007
Messages
925
I'll bet you a dollar against a donut that the new Ruger built on the medium frame will be a flat top next year.

I'm on record - will you bet, huh, will you?? :lol: LOL, just funning...

Dale53
 
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