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Selena

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Yes, i did read into the light hearted viewpoint. But the thread does raise some real questions about how the younger generation goes about getting an education these days.

One view on the high cost of universities and student loans. Universities do cost a lot, but those with higher tuition should have a higher caliber teaching staff. AND nicer facilities. Those are two big components of a university and they do cost money.
Unfortunately the universities act too much like government bureaucracies rather than a business. Accepting majors in things like women’s studies or popular culture when the bursers know students aren’t being taught marketable skills.
 
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Unfortunately the universities act too much like government bureaucracies rather than a business. Accepting majors in things like women’s studies or popular culture when the bursers know students aren’t being taught marketable skills.
I can’t agree with this. I went to a liberal arts university. The world needs people to study such things as women’s studies to make this a better place to live.

Should our society just forget about arts and humanities and focus on welding and brick laying?

Unfortunately only people who have gone to a liberal arts university would agree.
 

Selena

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I can’t agree with this. I went to a liberal arts university. The world needs people to study such things as women’s studies to make this a better place to live.

Should our society just forget about arts and humanities and focus on welding and brick laying?

Unfortunately only people who have gone to a liberal arts university would agree.

Very good, the old false dilemma logical fallacy raises it’s panicked head. One of the rules of debt is true return. Can you honestly tell me a degree in woman’s studies is a skill that will generate enough income to pay off the debt? Remember Maslow? Safety needs are three levels more important than self-actualization. Of course in my experience liberal arts grads are unable or unwilling to think that far ahead. Which explains why the majority of them support Biden.
 
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Jeepnik

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There are a lot of good things to be certified in as you will always be employed. Stationary engineer (boiler operator) is one. Out here if you have a Los Angeles City license (it's accepted in many other places) and aren't a complete a%%, you'll never be out of work.
 
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Very good, the old false dilemma logical fallacy raises it’s panicked head. One of the rules of debt is true return. Can you honestly tell me a degree in woman’s studies is a skill that will generate enough income to pay off the debt? Remember Maslow? Safety needs are three levels more important than self-actualization. Of course in my experience liberal arts grads are unable or unwilling to think that far ahead. Which explains why the majority of them support Biden.
Not false, or panicky. Honestly I don’t know enough about women’s study to comment. At least I didn’t think so at first.

Then I realized many, big companies have a “diversity and inclusion” officer. They are making sure, among other things there are enough women and minorities in the different levels of the company.

Google is going a step further, they make sure the external third party companies they hire to write software are both diversified and inclusive. The leader in that job gets a seven figure salary. Maslow would be satisfied.

Any company is going to have an HR team, they would hire a women’s studies grad. Those jobs at a large company would dwarf Jim’s posted salary.

I can see a museum curator having an undergraduate in women’s studies.

I’m sure there’s more, and I’m not saying welding isn’t important. Again for the record, I wish I knew how to weld. I wish I had the space to have a welding workshop.

The world needs more big giant heavy metal art sculptures.
 

Selena

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Not false, or panicky. Honestly I don’t know enough about women’s study to comment. At least I didn’t think so at first.

Then I realized many, big companies have a “diversity and inclusion” officer. They are making sure, among other things there are enough women and minorities in the different levels of the company.

Google is going a step further, they make sure the external third party companies they hire to write software are both diversified and inclusive. The leader in that job gets a seven figure salary. Maslow would be satisfied.

Any company is going to have an HR team, they would hire a women’s studies grad. Those jobs at a large company would dwarf Jim’s posted salary.

I can see a museum curator having an undergraduate in women’s studies.

I’m sure there’s more, and I’m not saying welding isn’t important. Again for the record, I wish I knew how to weld. I wish I had the space to have a welding workshop.

The world needs more big giant heavy metal art sculptures.

The world also needs more nurses, doctors, civil engineers, electrical engineers, mechanical engineers, draftsmen, metallurgists... and I hesitate to say it because I don't believe it... psychologists and social workers. Each one is a far better return on investment than the "woke" disorders. As for HR... I would far prefer someone with a degree in either business law or labor law. If some one has enough interest in women's studies to pursue a degree in it more power to them. If they decide on a loan to get them through, again, that's their privilege. However, under no circumstance should they be allowed a government guaranteed loan that the taxpayer will have to pay for when they fall on their rump.
 

Jeepnik

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Very good, the old false dilemma logical fallacy raises it’s panicked head. One of the rules of debt is true return. Can you honestly tell me a degree in woman’s studies is a skill that will generate enough income to pay off the debt? Remember Maslow? Safety needs are three levels more important than self-actualization. Of course in my experience liberal arts grads are unable or unwilling to think that far ahead. Which explains why the majority of them support Biden.
Good heavens. I thought everyone pretty much had learned, by now, that Maslow was a crank. I put him right there with the Maharishi Yogi.
 

RRM

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I can’t agree with this. I went to a liberal arts university. The world needs people to study such things as women’s studies to make this a better place to live.

Should our society just forget about arts and humanities and focus on welding and brick laying?

Unfortunately only people who have gone to a liberal arts university would agree.

Your question will be answered when we liberal ourselves right into the ground and somebody is needed to weld or lay bricks for the next library or art museum. I think the focus on "arts and humanities" (liberally defined) has contributed to the ultimate downfall of many a civilization. Adopting fiat currency helps too. Hey....we're almost there!
 

Jeepnik

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The world also needs more nurses, doctors, civil engineers, electrical engineers, mechanical engineers, draftsmen, metallurgists... and I hesitate to say it because I don't believe it... psychologists and social workers. Each one is a far better return on investment than the "woke" disorders. As for HR... I would far prefer someone with a degree in either business law or labor law. If some one has enough interest in women's studies to pursue a degree in it more power to them. If they decide on a loan to get them through, again, that's their privilege. However, under no circumstance should they be allowed a government guaranteed loan that the taxpayer will have to pay for when they fall on their rump.
Well now, I think there is a potential law suit here. I bet no one offers a degree in "Men's Studies". Or for that matter if a company hires someone with a degree in women's studies they should have to hire someone with a degree in men's studies.
 

RRM

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I bet no one offers a degree in "Men's Studies"

Men's Studies is handling the hard stuff nobody wants to do or know how it got did. Examples: Walking out a landing craft ramp into a hail of enemy fire in the hopes you could stay alive long enough to maybe grab some cover and return fire then liberate some folks in other countries from a Nazi regime. Or, burning people to a crisp with a flamethrower on a God forsaken Pacific Island to stop an enemy from the east hell bent on destroying your country.

Thank you to all who served and engaged in those "Men's Studies".
 
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What you are saying is they hire not for skills or knowledge, but for a racial/sex quota.
The company I'm retired from tried that around 1970. It took them YEARS to be rid of
the quota people that were unwilling to learn or perform their duties.
Yep I went through that in the late 70-80. What a pain when you have a 0 working for you and you can't do anything about it.
Son also went through it with Navy pilot training. Remember the Female F-14 pilot that couldn't fly?

Kevin I don't think you have ever said what your profession is other than teaching some.

This is what I know how to do.
Here is a Production Platform that I had overall design responsibilities for while at McDermott.
1656894118561


I have also designed a few onshore Gas Plants and Refineries, but not this one.
Not bad for a NON College Degree:) This looks like an LNG Facility.
1656893988901

This was my last project "BP Atlantis" which included Design of Equipment Location/size of modules, Constructability Engineer, Final Mechanical Inspection while in Construction and Commissioning of Mechanical Equipment before Sail Away.
It was a 3 year project that paid very well :)

1656894880898
 

Mike J

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Not false, or panicky. Honestly I don’t know enough about women’s study to comment. At least I didn’t think so at first.

Then I realized many, big companies have a “diversity and inclusion” officer. They are making sure, among other things there are enough women and minorities in the different levels of the company.

Google is going a step further, they make sure the external third party companies they hire to write software are both diversified and inclusive. The leader in that job gets a seven figure salary. Maslow would be satisfied.

Any company is going to have an HR team, they would hire a women’s studies grad. Those jobs at a large company would dwarf Jim’s posted salary.

I can see a museum curator having an undergraduate in women’s studies.

I’m sure there’s more, and I’m not saying welding isn’t important. Again for the record, I wish I knew how to weld. I wish I had the space to have a welding workshop.

The world needs more big giant heavy metal art sculptures.
In all honesty I view diversity & inclusion for the sake of diversity & inclusion as being just another form of people being discriminated against because of their skin color or race. It even effects who is taken into colleges. Such things should be decided by ability alone with no consideration given to race or sex. It should be equal opportunity not equality of outcome.
It is somewhat sad. I see people with college degrees in positions that were once filled by people that had worked their way up out of the trades. Most of these people wreak havoc on jobs making them less efficient & profitable because while they understand theory they don't have the practical experience to go with it.

As for welding. It is nearing completion now but not too long ago a lot of our members were working on a nuclear power plant. They were desperate for welders. A fellow I know that is a top notch welder told me, "If you think you know how to weld go try to certify to work on a nuke." Welding has many other purposes than making sculpture.
As far as education goes I have 2 older sisters. One completed one quarter of college before dropping out. She started working for a well known university as an administrative assistant. When she retired she was a project manager involved with computer programming. My other sister that dropped out of college shortly after she began. She took a job as a rate clerk working nights for a small air freight company. Every time her supervisor quit she was promoted to their position. At the age of 28 when they were acquired by a larger company she was Terminal Manager. The company that acquired them created a position for her. Later that company was acquired. Once again they created a position for her.
Me I'm pretty much the under achiever. I make a decent living & provide for my family. I don't want to be a boss.
Sorry for the rambling but I believe a person's ability & work ethic should be more important than a piece of paper, sex or skin color. Producing a useful product should be more important than women's studies & diversity. It is a sad, bizarre, absurd world we live in today where the lunatics run the asylum.
 

Colonialgirl

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Well, I got four courses in Paint and Coatings; Pigments/ Varnishes & Resins/ Latex; and TWO semesters in Formulating all taught by experienced people from the National Paint and Coatings Assoc. When the company I worked for wanted to promote me to a production management position, they REQUIRED that I get a 4 year degree (subject not specified)
After 5 years , 3 night a week, 3 hours a night; I had a BS Degree in Process Engineering* that not only taught many business subjects (Accounting, personnel, purchasing, scheduling etc) but also about many manufacturing processes (welding , machining, etc etc.). I was also accepted for Graduate School, but after all those nights and hours I was burned out.
Should I point out I was also working a 10 hour day all that time ?
* CSULB
 

Bear Paw Jack

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Ramsey Solutions has a good book out for young people, It's called "Debt Free Degree" by Anthony O'neal. The truth is that most young people want what they want and they don't really use good judgement. That's where the parents come into play. Parents need to parent. I haven't read this whole post so might be repeating somethings, but the student loan program is designed totally to keep lefty professors teaching at these colleges and making big money while indoctrinating your kids. If there was no student loans, colleges would be much cheaper. Frankly they wouldn't be able to keep the doors open without student loans. People are paying for a pig in a poke at most colleges. First schools aren't teaching your kids to read, write, history, how do do math, anything that's worth while. When kids get to college they are already behind in their education.
Millions of dollars in grants and scholarships aren't used because (some) kids are too lazy to apply for them. You don't have to go to a prestigious college to get a job. I worked all my life and no one ever asked me where I got my degree's from. I strongly suggest reading the book.

Next look this over and watch the borrowed future documentary.
 

Biggfoot44

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I can’t agree with this. I went to a liberal arts university. The world needs people to study such things as women’s studies to make this a better place to live.

Should our society just forget about arts and humanities and focus on welding and brick laying?

Unfortunately only people who have gone to a liberal arts university would agree.

Ok , at some level a society can't exist on solely nuts & bolts vocational education . Some degree of pure research . arts , and obscure cultural studies are necessary .

But the necessary amount is far smaller than currently being turned out .
 

Biggfoot44

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What you are saying is they hire not for skills or knowledge, but for a racial/sex quota.
The company I'm retired from tried that around 1970. It took them YEARS to be rid of
the quota people that were unwilling to learn or perform their duties.


That was then , this is now .

NOW , if you seek to do business with any level of state , nation, or local government contracts , subcontract thereof . or even do non gov't related business with about half of the huge corps , you have to do the diversity thing .
 
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That was then , this is now .

NOW , if you seek to do business with any level of state , nation, or local government contracts , subcontract thereof . or even do non gov't related business with about half of the huge corps , you have to do the diversity thing .
When the company I worked for was doing a construction project in the SPRs/ Strategic Petroleum Reserve we were required to buy 25% of our material from minority companies. All of our pipe valves and fittings came from Red Man Supply. They have done rather well:)


The company qualifies as a Minority Business Enterprise, and in 1987 the founder was honored with a White House presentation by President Ronald Reagan as Minority Entrepreneur of the Year. MBE status has provided opportunities and support over the years, but the founder believed in seeking (and offering) a hand up, not a hand-out.
The company has gone from nothing to a $1 billion+ PVF distributor in less than 30 years.

1657039452329
 

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