issue with 45ACP in my convertable blackhawk?

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demo_slug

Single-Sixer
Joined
Dec 15, 2009
Messages
123
bullets with shoulders won't chamber. a pure round nose bullet head spaces correctly, and factory FMJ 230 fits perfect. but anything that has a shoulder just wont go all the way in.

basically the cylinder will get stuck and wont rotate because the cartridge is sticking out a hare. and I have to pull the base pin and remove the cylinder to un jam the gun.

Projectiles that wont chamber
hornaday SWC 200
laser cast 200 SWC
laser cast 230 LRN

Projectiles that Do fit
Zero 230 LRN


if I seat the bullets bellow the shoulder they seat fine. Is this normal and I just have to use bullets without a bullet shoulder or is my cylinder a dud?

although I'm having so much fun with 45 colt, I'm kinda wondering if i'll ever really shoot ACP much.
 

actionflies

Bearcat
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Jan 25, 2008
Messages
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Location
Oregon
Not sure what the term "shoulder" mean on a bullet, but I load 200gr. swc berry's and 230gr. fmj win. and sometimes the primers are not fully seated, it prevent the cylinder to rotate. My most accurate 45acp gun is my ruger and I haven't even use the 45lc cylinder yet.
 

demo_slug

Single-Sixer
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Dec 15, 2009
Messages
123
actionflies":288qr9nx said:
Not sure what the term "shoulder" mean on a bullet, but I load 200gr. swc berry's and 230gr. fmj win. and sometimes the primers are not fully seated, it prevent the cylinder to rotate. My most accurate 45acp gun is my ruger and I haven't even use the 45lc cylinder yet.

Yeah I keep an eye out for the primers, I've had that happen. But not my issue this time. Wolf primers?
 

actionflies

Bearcat
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Jan 25, 2008
Messages
86
Location
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I load with mixed brass and I find win. brass or S&B have tight primer pocket. I always go over my load when done.
 

REP1954

Blackhawk
Joined
Jul 21, 2008
Messages
959
I have had to cut the chambers .005" deeper before on a Colt SAA cylinder to keep it running smooth with different ammo. The Colt and Ruger have two different firing pin systems but I'm sure that doing so will work just as well in a Ruger.
 

ADP3

Single-Sixer
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Dec 23, 2001
Messages
481
Location
SC
I think that your issue is one of tight chamber throats. The .45 ACP headspaces on the case mouth. The driving bands and front shoulders of some of the bullets that you are using are hitting the tight throat and not allowing the cartridge to completely seat. If you open up the throat accuracy may suffer for the ACP cylinder. Go with the 230 RN's that chamber ok or seat your other bullets a bit deeper. Watch seating them too deep or you will compress the air space between the powder and the bullet and run up your pressure.

Best Regards,
ADP3
 

Cherokee

Single-Sixer
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May 21, 2003
Messages
472
Location
Medina, Ohio, USA
Every time I tried to use the 45 ACP cylinders in any of my several Rugers I encounter the same problem. Any exposed lead will bind, RN works OK but not accurate. I don't bother any more, 45 Colt does just fine.
 

B.Roberts

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May 19, 2007
Messages
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Location
Gig Harbor, WA
ADP3":73ycxejp said:
I think that your issue is one of tight chamber throats. The .45 ACP headspaces on the case mouth. The driving bands and front shoulders of some of the bullets that you are using are hitting the tight throat and not allowing the cartridge to completely seat. If you open up the throat accuracy may suffer for the ACP cylinder. Go with the 230 RN's that chamber ok or seat your other bullets a bit deeper. Watch seating them too deep or you will compress the air space between the powder and the bullet and run up your pressure.

Best Regards,
ADP3

+1, but I don't think your accuracy would suffer if you opened up the throats in your .45acp cylinder. I opened up the throats of both cylinders on my accusport bisley. Worked great.
 

REP1954

Blackhawk
Joined
Jul 21, 2008
Messages
959
I always use a factory crimp die when handloading 45 ACP for revolvers it makes a big difference on seating. It's another step in the reloading process but it goes quickley and a Lee factory crimp die is cheap.
 

TomC321

Bearcat
Joined
Mar 24, 2003
Messages
73
Location
Port Republic, MD, USA
B.Roberts":3ez0q18p said:
ADP3":3ez0q18p said:
I think that your issue is one of tight chamber throats. The .45 ACP headspaces on the case mouth. The driving bands and front shoulders of some of the bullets that you are using are hitting the tight throat and not allowing the cartridge to completely seat. If you open up the throat accuracy may suffer for the ACP cylinder. Go with the 230 RN's that chamber ok or seat your other bullets a bit deeper. Watch seating them too deep or you will compress the air space between the powder and the bullet and run up your pressure.

Best Regards,
ADP3

+1, but I don't think your accuracy would suffer if you opened up the throats in your .45acp cylinder. I opened up the throats of both cylinders on my accusport bisley. Worked great.

I have had to open the chamber throats on several .45 ACP cylinders. I use the same reamer I use on the .45 Colt cylinders. They work very well for me.
 

edlmann

Blackhawk
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Apr 6, 2009
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lovely downtown Central Florida
REP1954":3lbgjmk3 said:
I always use a factory crimp die when handloading 45 ACP for revolvers it makes a big difference on seating. It's another step in the reloading process but it goes quickley and a Lee factory crimp die is cheap.

A decent taper crimp should work, and prevent premature case splits.

I suspect the OP's problem is tight cylinder throats.

Click here.
 

demo_slug

Single-Sixer
Joined
Dec 15, 2009
Messages
123
edlmann":fv1ul9og said:
REP1954":fv1ul9og said:
I always use a factory crimp die when handloading 45 ACP for revolvers it makes a big difference on seating. It's another step in the reloading process but it goes quickley and a Lee factory crimp die is cheap.

A decent taper crimp should work, and prevent premature case splits.

I suspect the OP's problem is tight cylinder throats.

Click here.

I use a Lee factor crimp. The ammo in question passes thru the factory crimp without issue. The ammo is Fine. I just wanted to know if it’s normal for this gun to have compatibility issues with some types of projectiles.

On further inspection of the throats and the chamber. The walls are very ruff. There are visible machine marks. It wasn’t polished after boring it. In contrast the chambers in my 45Colt cylinder are smooth. Is that normal? Or did Ruger skip a step? Or is the ACP cylinder just not made to the same standards as other cylinders?

thank you for the input thus far.
 

gerryb158

Single-Sixer
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Nov 27, 2005
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173
Location
New Hampshire, USA
As a few folks have said, you can probably solve this problem by seating the bullet just a bit deeper. Experiment a little and I'd bet you find a solution. Another consideration, also mentioned, is the "Lee CARBIDE Factory Crimp Die." Costs about $20 and although it does add a step to the reloading process it makes really fine finished ammo. Provides a taper crimp for the .45 auto and final sizes the case at the same time. After going through this die, your ammo WILL chamber. I've found it also helps remove the "hour glass" that sometimes comes from bullet seating.
Good luck. Gerry
Ooops, just missed your last post. Maybe what I've said doesn't apply.
 

demo_slug

Single-Sixer
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Dec 15, 2009
Messages
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gerryb158":26de9y6a said:
Ooops, just missed your last post. Maybe what I've said doesn't apply.
nope. but that is fine by me.

At first, I was convinced that I could correct with adjusting OAL. but I couldn't get reliability until I seated with the shoulder flush with the case mouth. and at that point I'm doing the opposite of what makes my 1911 happy. My Springer is more reliable with longer ammo, but it will run 99.9% on this short stuff.
 

azleite

Single-Sixer
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Dec 19, 2007
Messages
331
Location
North Texas
Folks here sure are helpful! I was referred to this section when I wrote into the reloading section today about this same exact problem! I have to seat my cartridges to an OAL of 1.199" to get mine to work in my Blackhawk cylinder.Lasercast 200 grn LSWC.
 

btrumanj

Single-Sixer
Joined
Jan 29, 2005
Messages
490
Location
Louisville Ky
demo_slug wrote
At first, I was convinced that I could correct with adjusting OAL. but I couldn't get reliability until I seated with the shoulder flush with the case mouth. and at that point I'm doing the opposite of what makes my 1911 happy. My Springer is more reliable with longer ammo, but it will run 99.9% on this short stuff.

Win 231 powder calls for a shorter OAL with both the 200 gr LSWC and the 230 gr RN bullets than some others which allows me to seat the shoulder flush with the case mouth and I use the Lee FCD to finish. Took me a bit of cussing and experimenting to find this solution(for my gun). These short rds work perfectly in my Blackhawk and P97 auto. Seem to work pretty well in my RIA too. :)
 

Chance

Buckeye
Joined
Nov 9, 2007
Messages
1,378
Location
Sun City, AZ
Lot of good responses here. I finally got fed up dealing with the same problem and just sold the APC cylinder here on the forum. No more problems.
 

demo_slug

Single-Sixer
Joined
Dec 15, 2009
Messages
123
I called ruger. they want the gun back. My ACP chambers are not smooth, and appreantly they should be, I guess they didn't get reamed at the factory. or maybe they just want to get a better look at it.
 

btrumanj

Single-Sixer
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Jan 29, 2005
Messages
490
Location
Louisville Ky
azleite":1ilhivsl said:
btrumanj, do you have any pressure problems? How many grns. of 231 do you use? Thanks-Dave

Dave, I use 5.3 grs with the 230 gr lead and with the 200 gr SWC either the same 5.3 gr and have loaded some with 5.5 grs. No signs of any pressure :)
Baker
 
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