IMR 4227 and H4227 differences?

[WyoGunner]

I was looking on the Hodgen/Winchester/IMR reloading center site and I noticed that they had information on H4227 for .357 mag but not IMR 4227. IMR 4227 is very abundant at my Walmart and I am curious to know what it is used for. Rifle or pistol powder? Is there a difference between IMR 4227 and H4227?

 

[SBH4628]

Your Wal-mart sells powder :shock: :shock: Are's quit selling guns and ammo is very slim

 

[Chief 101]

You could interchange the data 30 years ago so I am sure that would still be true today. Use commonsense and work up loads if you are using max loads. I don't have the number but Hodgdon has always had good tech support and a 1-800 number.
Chief aka Maxx Load

 

[pvtschultz]

From what I understand, Hodgdon dropped H4227 in favor of IMR-4227 when they took over the IMR brand. From what I remember in Hodgdon #26, the IMR load was slightly less than the H equivalent, but they are both listed in there.

 

[contender]

There is a little difference in the burning rates. So,,, use data info for the correct powder. I use a lot of H4227 myself, and I have found it to be close to IMR 4227.

 

[45Colt_Man]

Hodgdon never made it's own powder. H4227 and IMR 4227 are actually ADI Sporting Powder AR2205 from Thales Australia. This information is from the MDS sheets for both powders. I know they dropped one of the two powders and I thought is was H4227 but apparently it was IMR 4227 based on the current website and Hodgdons Annual Manuals.

Dana

 

[WyoGunner]

Hodgdon never made it's own powder. H4227 and IMR 4227 are actually ADI Sporting Powder AR2205 from Thales Australia. This information is from the MDS sheets for both powders. I know they dropped one of the two powders and I thought is was H4227 but apparently it was IMR 4227 based on the current website and Hodgdons Annual Manuals.

Dana

See thats what I thought too. The winchester/hodgdon/IMR site shows loads for H227 and not IMR 4227. Yet, my Walmart gets in IMR 4227 every week. Strange

 

[pbslinger]

Hodgdon dropped H4227 as a label. IMR4227 is the label, the powder is H4227.

Older pre Hodgdon IMR4227 was black and made in Canada.

H4227, and current IMR4227 is green and made in Australia.

Taffin said that when there were actually two 4227's, they could be used similarly.

Treat any of it as a different lot, and work up.

 

[WyoGunner]

THanks for the info everyone.

 

[rusty77]

Does the same apply to H4198 and IMR 4198. Are they the same.

 

[Rick Courtright]

Does the same apply to H4198 and IMR 4198. Are they the same.

Hi,

They were slightly different when I was loading the IMR flavor. Similar, but... DuPont was still making the IMR powders then!

Dunno about the situation today since Hodgdon's handles both brands now and there ARE some items they say ARE identical that WEREN'T when the brands were separate entities (we can toss a couple of Winchester's present or past offerings in there, too.)

Personally, I prefer to keep the label on the jug matching the listing on the recipe despite claims it's ok to interchange data. It may be an overly conservative approach, but, then, I'm kinda fond of my fingers, eyes and guns...

Naturally, YMMV!

Rick C

 

[Divernhunter]

Then there are some powders that are suppose to be the same. Such as H-110 and Win296. However when I load them exactly the same(amount/bullet/primer/brass/OAL) I do not get the same speeds over my chronograph. The H-110 is higher by a fair amount.

 

[WyoGunner]

I definitely agree with matching the powder to the book. I guess the real problem lies within the Winchester site. If they have indeed phased out the h4227, then they need to update the loading info.

 

[rusty77]

Thanks for the info. The Winchester, Hodgdon and Sierra data books still list loads for both the H4198 and IMR 4198. Just about out of the H4198.

Guess I have to find some more or try the IMR 4198 that I have on hand.

Henry

 

[contender]

Thats why we use more than one book or source for loading data.

 

[pbslinger]

If they have indeed phased out the h4227, then they need to update the loading info.
_________________

H4227 is still for sale, but in an IMR4227 bottle. Older, black IMR4227 is gone.

 

[WyoGunner]

That sounds dangerously confusing. I am going to call IMR and see what they say. I will post their response.

 

[paul105]

Hodgdon's online load data shows IMR 4227 for all 4227 loads in the .44 Magnum. I went back to an older Hodgdon Annual Manual that showed the .44 Magnum loaded with H4227. With but one exception (max load for 330gr BTB was reduced slightly) the data is idendtical (load weight, velicity, cup all match up exactly). Looks like the new IMR4227 is the Old H4227. All of the other hand gun cartridges still show H4227 in the online data. Maybe all the data has not yet been updated?.

Be interesting to see what Hodgdon tells WyoGunner.

http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

 

[WyoGunner]

I just got off the phone with Dave at IMR and this is what he had to say: H4227 and IMR 4227 are different powders and they were made in different labs. IMR/Hodg/Win has decided to discontinue H4227, but hasn't updated their reloading data center (http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp) information because they are waiting until the majority of the H4227 has been used up by re-loaders and they feel like it is safe to do so. (He presented the reasoning about the reloading center data more like an educated guess than a fact) He estimated that they will probably fully phase out the information on H4227 in the next 4 years. He also said that IMR 4227 and H4227 are very similar and loaders can substitute them for each other, but should follow the standard safety precaution of starting low and working up.

On a slightly different note, IMR 4227 is an extruded powder. I couldn't find this information anywhere on their site.

I hope this clears up a little bit of the uncertainties about the two powders.

 

[Yosemite Sam]

Thanks for getting the info straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak!

-- Sam