Improper Barrel Installation at Ruger

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Carry_Up

Single-Sixer
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I just slogged my way through a tedious thread on another forum which can be read here:
http://www.rugerforum.net/showthread.php?t=13337
I've never seen so much fussing over what seems obvious to me. Even seasoned professionals weigh in on this topic and seem to draw the wrong conclusions. A small divet appears between the barrel and the frame, just underneath the forward cylinder lock - photos show it clearly. Most people believe this mark is some sort of chip caused by metal stress. Metal does not act like this under stress, but that is beside the point.

All of my Ruger revolvers (GP100's and SP101's) have this divet. It is clearly made by a tapered rotary grinder or rasp attached to a hand-held dremel tool.

The purpose is obvious to me. When the barrel is installed at Ruger, a large majority of them are not screwed in all the way. If they are not, a ridge or step will remain right underneath the forward lock, and it will interfere with the closing and locking of the cylinder. A quick blast with a tapered grinder removes the inconvenient ridge. What bothers me is that this procedure is apparently the norm at Ruger - in other words installing the barrel a few degrees shy of square. Looking carefully through the sights reveals that the front sight leans slightly to the right, which it would not do if the barrel were square to the frame. And, if the barrel were square, there would be no nasty ridge to dremel out.

Sure enough, all my revolvers are a few degrees shy of square. At least Ruger has the ability to be consistent on something. The question is not what the divet is, or if the metal has "fractured" (not!) but will Ruger make it right with a smile, or will they keep the gun at their facility for months evaluating and discussing the situation? The dremel tweak allows the cylinder to close and lock, but what's wrong with screwing on the barrel correctly in the first place?

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Carry_Up

Single-Sixer
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As an addition to the previous, I'd like to reference an article that many of you may be familiar with:
http://www.thesixgunjournal.net/repatriatedrugergp.html
Here, the author's GP100 also demonstrates Ruger's long time affliction of inadequate barrel alignment. Not mentioned in the article, the barrel can be seen to be shy of square with the frame, which caused the windage error. The method used to correct the problem may make gunsmiths wince, but if it works I'd rather give it a try than sending my firearms to the Bermuda Triangle, hoping that everything gets fixed and that all my careful polishing and fitting will not be tossed in the waste basket. Just a thought, anyway.

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GP100man

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i had to go open the safe & see , none of my GPs have the "adjustment "
but i agree just align the barrel to solve both problems just seems "too easy"!!!

& barrels look straight& sites & rear sites are adjusted ded center.
 

Carry_Up

Single-Sixer
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Yes, if you have the endurance to read through the entire thread on the SP101, a number of folks claim that they own examples of properly aligned barrels. Interesting that even the ones with correct alignment still have the dremel mark. Note that the alignment is not usually easy to spot. I was looking for problems when I purchased my last GP100 and did not catch the problem until I noticed a very slight cant of the front sight.

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Joined
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nature of the beast when they do the "crush fit"...or they can go too far or too hard and crack the frames like S&W often does??????
this is why they will NOT work on or refinish the early guns, with the alloy cylinder frames and a steel barrel...no telling what will happen nor what they will find when they "try" to "unscrew" the barrel.....yessir I too agree they should have come up with a "no mar, nick or cut.." in their process to finish the job.............
 

Carry_Up

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Thanks for your comments, Rugerguy. There are many aspects of factory construction that are unknown to the average person. I'm sure that barrel fitting, especially the crush fit style, is not an easy task. Too bad that there isn't an easier solution like using normal thread clearance and locking them with a high tech locktite product.

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Carry_Up

Single-Sixer
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Thanks for the links to earlier threads. All these complaints stem from the same basic problem: the barrel is not screwed in all the way. The earlier threads deal with single actions which have an alignment problem that arises if the barrel is adjusted. Fortunately, the GP100/SP101 barrels can be moved without upsetting any other adjustments on the gun. While it is great to know that there is a "nice lady" answering the phone, I'm not thrilled about how the factory handles repairs. Gulp!

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Bucks Owin

Hunter
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My "new to me" (Gunbroker) mint condition pre warning NM .45 Blackhawk suffers from this barrel alignment malady. The front sight is visible leaning to starboard and the rear must be screwed right almost as far as possible to center a 25 yd target. In addition, it's chambers and throats are oversize (.456") with a generous cyl gap to boot. Trouble is, it somehow groups quite well (near an inch with 225 gr Silvertips!) and I'm having so much fun developing loads and shooting it to turn loose of it long enough to send home to Ruger! Guess I need a new toy..... :roll:
 

Carry_Up

Single-Sixer
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Again, it is indeed strange that some of these examples do not show up with the barrel installed just a bit past square. All of them are apparently just shy of square. I wonder why that would be? Maybe it would be a good idea to purchase a frame wrench and barrel vise and pass it around to interested forum members.

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A

Anonymous

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: good work!

GP100man said:
i had to go open the safe & see , none of my GPs have the "adjustment "
but i agree just align the barrel to solve both problems just seems "too easy"!!!

EDITED by Mod- Links
 

flatgate

Hawkeye
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I have zero knowledge about Ruger's D.A. revolvers. I do know it's customary for Single Actions to have the barrel installed THEN the front sight is installed. Any "leaning" of the front sight can only be attributed to the lack of precision utilized by the sight's installer. Of course, Hunter models are another story.

JMHO,

flatgate
 

J Miller

Blackhawk
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Not in IL anymore ... :)
Bucks Owin":1arexxvz said:
My "new to me" (Gunbroker) mint condition pre warning NM .45 Blackhawk suffers from this barrel alignment malady. The front sight is visible leaning to starboard and the rear must be screwed right almost as far as possible to center a 25 yd target. In addition, it's chambers and throats are oversize (.456") with a generous cyl gap to boot. Trouble is, it somehow groups quite well (near an inch with 225 gr Silvertips!) and I'm having so much fun developing loads and shooting it to turn loose of it long enough to send home to Ruger! Guess I need a new toy..... :roll:

Winchester STHP bullets run between .454" and .455".
Winchester 255gr lead and Remington 250gr lead bullets are 456" and .455" respectively. This is why these larger throats shoot so well with them.
.................................................................

My 7.5" .45 Colt OM BH also the barrel improperly indexed. The sight tilted to the right.
My 4 5/8" OM .357's front sight is tilted to the left and twisted on the barrel. It's not even soldered properly.
MY 6.5" OM .22's front sight tilts slightly to the left.

No matter what the attachment method Ruger just does not care about getting the sights straight.

If we as consumers would just thoroughly examine each and every new Ruger we buy and refuse to buy those that are not right, Ruger would get the message quick.
But as it stands now, we just numbly hang our heads and buy them then pay money to a gunsmith or ship them back to be made right.

I've been somewhat guilty of this but not any more. If new guns I look at are not right, I just don't buy them.


Joe
 

texaswheelgunner

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Schertz, Texas USA
I have an OM .45 Cal Blackhawk at Ten Ring Precision right now to screw the barrel in farther to get it to the "12 o'clock" position. The front sight is leaning way over to the right due to the barrel not screwed in enough.

The rear sight leaf is way over to the right in order to compensate.

Hence, the windage screw is sticking way out to the right, so far to the right that it will almost fall out while shooting the gun.
 

Yosemite Sam

Hunter
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Cape Cod, MA, USA
The 4" RH I own came from the factory way over indexed. The original owner sent it back for correction, and now it's "only" over indexed by a degree or so. I still have to compensate for it with the rear sight. I'm going to attempt my own "correction" at some point in the near future.

It really is sad that Ruger can't get something so basic right. Of course, the barrel/muzzle on my last new S&W was enough to make that my "last" new S&W... (If they care about their products that little, I'll care about them even less.)

-- Sam

P.S. Speaking of slogging through topics: http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=59383
 

DGW1949

Hunter
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Texas
It aint just Rugers. A lot of Colts and S&W's will exhibit an out of time barrel also....and some 45 Autos get through that has the slide machined wrong, which makes the barrel and bushing off-center.
And FWIW....I agree with Joe Miller on this sort of thing. I personaly aint buying any gun that has obvious fitting/assembly problems.

But getting on to the problem at hand....
It aint hard to see these types of things before plunking down your money. Just cradle the (empty) gun in both hands while the muzzel is pointing towards you....hold it out at arms length and look across the top, towards the hammer. That will show-up a leaning front sight real fast....and depending on where you're looking, an off center barrel bushing on a 45-Auto....and/or a canted ejector-rod shroud on a DA revolver.

Hope this helps someone down the line.

DGW
 

Carry_Up

Single-Sixer
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DGW1949":1phqkxk0 said:
It aint just Rugers. A lot of Colts and S&W's will exhibit an out of time barrel also....and some 45 Autos get through that has the slide machined wrong, which makes the barrel and bushing off-center.

We're not talking about the occasional screw-up here. This problem is consistent and avoidable and it is not easily detectable unless you know what you are looking for. That is the reason I made the comments that appear above.

It aint hard to see these types of things before plunking down your money.
Yes, unfortunately it is difficult. That was my point. The barrels are routinely screwed on just short of square. Some folks say they have examples of barrels screwed on too far. Very few actually own examples with correctly fitted barrels. This condition is NOT the rule with other makers, as it seems to be with Ruger.

Carry_Up
 

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