I'm surprised you have a round chambered

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Mobuck

Hawkeye
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Dec 25, 2007
Messages
6,694
I worked at a farm consignment auction yesterday helping my auctioneer Cousin. After the sale, I was loading my purchases and talking with one of the main consigners and another man I didn't know. This man was eyeballing my G2S and asked to see it. I didn't know the guy but man I did know gave a an "OK" nod so I drew the pistol and cleared it before handing it over.
He gave it the typical once over and commented that he was "surprised that I carried it with a round chambered" as he handed it back. I replied that it wasn't big enough to use for a club and if I needed it, I didn't intend to waste time loading it. Then he says "Well at least you can keep the safety on". Nope, don't use the safety either, there's no way it can fire unless the trigger is pulled.
I don't think he believed me nor felt I was a very safe pistol packer as I walked away while re-chambering a round.
 

Mike J

Hunter
Joined
Aug 5, 2007
Messages
3,474
A lot of folks have different attitudes about guns. Personally I carry a pistol that doesn't have an external safety with a round chambered. I was talking with a guy at work one day & he was asking me questions. I explained to him that as long as the pistol is in a holster that covers the trigger guard the trigger can not be pulled & the pistol will not go off. He thought about it for a second, shrugged his shoulders & said the holster is the safety. If I am out shooting & decide to do drills from the holster I am very careful when putting the pistol back into the holster.
 

blume357

Hawkeye
Joined
Nov 15, 2005
Messages
8,573
It has to do with training and feeling comfortable with a gun.... on the extreme keep in ming those that are totally afraid of guns are that way because they aren't comfortable with themselves and a gun... kind of like the fear of heights... you can walk right to the edge of a tall building and look down and nothing is going to happen unless you make it happen... but there is an underlying fear in some / many people that they will lose control and jump.

I'm probably an extreme in that I've spent a lot of my own money (not the government's) on training and a good bit of that training has been when NOT to use a gun in a stressful situation.

I also carry with one in the chamber and the gun doesn't have a safety. Personally, I think a safety on a semi-auto pistol is for those folks not totally comfortable with a gun.
 

Mike J

Hunter
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Aug 5, 2007
Messages
3,474
blume357 said:
It has to do with training and feeling comfortable with a gun.... on the extreme keep in ming those that are totally afraid of guns are that way because they aren't comfortable with themselves and a gun... kind of like the fear of heights... you can walk right to the edge of a tall building and look down and nothing is going to happen unless you make it happen... but there is an underlying fear in some / many people that they will lose control and jump.

I'm probably an extreme in that I've spent a lot of my own money (not the government's) on training and a good bit of that training has been when NOT to use a gun in a stressful situation.

I also carry with one in the chamber and the gun doesn't have a safety. Personally, I think a safety on a semi-auto pistol is for those folks not totally comfortable with a gun.

Funny thing about heights. If there is a 6" I beam 20' above the floor & there is other stuff near it (within 4 or 5 feet) I can walk it & it doesn't bother me. If you put the same I beam with nothing within 10 feet of either side of it & I need to get out there I will still do it but I will crawl it. The crazy part is intellectually I know one way is just as dangerous as the other but having other stuff nearby (pipes, conduit or whatever) gives me an illusion of safety. It doesn't make sense.
 

kmoore

Blackhawk
Joined
Mar 29, 2017
Messages
991
How many manual safeties are on say the standard double action revolver? That many people carried for decades and used in the military, police, hunting, self defense, target shooting. Those handguns worked pretty damn well with out the need to flip/ push/ pull on and off a manual safety before pulling the trigger.
And my gosh, they had a round ready to go with that pull of the trigger.
It's all about training and proper safe gun handling.
 

Mobuck

Hawkeye
Joined
Dec 25, 2007
Messages
6,694
"It's all about training and proper safe gun handling."

Correct!!
Up to this point, I've had ONE AD/ND in my life. That one occurred while hunting from an elevated stand as I was scooting around trying to line up on a moving deer. The 357 Blackhawk was cocked as I was twisting around to get a shot and I lost my balance. As I was grabbing for the safety rail with my support hand, I unintentionally triggered a shot. Bullet hit the ground at the base of the tree and deer ran away. No harm/no foul but lesson learned.
Over the decades that I've carried a firearm for various reasons, I've been privileged to avoid "accidents" while basically having a gun in my hand nearly every day for one reason or another. I'm "comfortable" with handling guns as opposed to some folks who handle a gun like it's a deadly viper intent on causing them harm. An experienced, confident "gun person" should handle a gun like a carpenter handles his hammer or a logger handles his saw.
I was watching an "info-mercial" utoob video a couple days ago. One of the guys was togged out in the usual "tacti-cool" vest, gloves, and mag pouches but handled the rifle like he'd never seen one before. That cost him and the advertisement a lot of credibility.
 

BDM1

Single-Sixer
Joined
Oct 11, 2016
Messages
498
I own a P64, and the trigger-pull in double action is heavy, probably too heavy. My holster completely covers the trigger guard. This gun has an external hammer, but someone or something would have to hit it very smartly to cause it to fire, and in that event, i would already know that "something bad is going down"! I don't use the safety, i feel very comfortable with it in that mode. All of you have posted some very good points.
 

toysoldier

Hunter
Joined
Aug 23, 2006
Messages
3,220
kmoore said:
How many manual safeties are on say the standard double action revolver? That many people carried for decades and used in the military, police, hunting, self defense, target shooting. Those handguns worked pretty damn well with out the need to flip/ push/ pull on and off a manual safety before pulling the trigger.
And my gosh, they had a round ready to go with that pull of the trigger.
It's all about training and proper safe gun handling.

My P-90DC works just like my S&W 1917. No safety. And the trigger pull, DA and SA, is about the same.
 

Jeepnik

Hawkeye
Joined
Dec 16, 2005
Messages
5,067
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Israelis yet. They have a penchant for condition three carry.

A long time ago there was an officer that insisted folks carry 1911's condition three. Now he was new and anyone with more that a day out and about understood why and how to carry a 1911. No one paid attention to him. He railed and threatened. Then he learned and shutup.
 

Mobuck

Hawkeye
Joined
Dec 25, 2007
Messages
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"I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Israelis yet. They have a penchant for condition three carry."
I've seen videos of the "Israeli draw/chamber/fire" technique and even tried to use it back when I was packing a Browning HiPower. There's a LOT going on during that sequence and the slightest bobble puts the user in a difficult situation. I decided it just wasn't for me and continued with cocked and locked (some call the condition 1{?}) until switching to the KP95DC which I carried for many years.
For one thing, in all but one of the very few times I've drawn my carry piece the person giving me cause to do so didn't even know my weapon was drawn.
 

Valmet

Single-Sixer
Joined
Oct 9, 2016
Messages
410
It’s hard for me to imagine ccw’ing without a round chambered. For the record I’ve ccw’d a Glock 19 or a 32 for a long time.
 

InjunBro

Bearcat
Joined
Jun 13, 2010
Messages
95
If you've ever needed gun for defense you know there's no time to chamber a round, it's just point & mash the bang switch. Having a 2nd hand free to work a slide presumes you're not wrestling an attacker w/ the other hand, knocked down, opening a door, holding a flashlight, etc..
 

blume357

Hawkeye
Joined
Nov 15, 2005
Messages
8,573
I think what some folks who think they know about guns are thinking is in a deadly force situation if you draw and chamber a round that might deescalate it. I suppose there is such a situation... but my understanding and research tells me that in most situations of this type... you are in the position my father (who has seen the tiger) explained to me.

You only point a gun at a dead man. His point being, if you draw your weapon to stop the threat you've decided the threat is already dead. I know this goes a bit further than our current 'lawyering' says.... but in reality if one is ever in such a position.... it is more than likely true.
 

Pps1980

Bearcat
Joined
Jan 2, 2017
Messages
98
Safeties on semi-autos come from the Condition 1 days of SA pistols like the 1911 and BHP. Oh, and as I recall from several decades ago the SAS carried their BHPs condition 3 and racked as they drew.
 

Mobuck

Hawkeye
Joined
Dec 25, 2007
Messages
6,694
"If you've ever needed gun for defense you know there's no time to chamber a round, it's just point & mash the bang switch."
That pretty much nails it as far as I'm concerned .
I understand that accuracy plays a role but getting the first hit on target is often all that matters.
The "Israeli draw" in many cases, puts the pistol further out in front of the user than may be prudent or even possible and could be considered "provocative" in the sense that it telegraphs the intent to use the firearm rather than just to clear the holster.
I carried a SA pistol for years(either/both a BHP and/or a Star BM) and C&L (condition 1) was the only choice as far as I'm concerned.
The reason I never carry a DA pistol with "safety on" is in the heat of the moment it's just too easy to fail to disengage that safety and there's no real advantage to having a safety on a DA pistol. If the mechanism isn't safe w/o a manual safety, you'd best be looking for a different gun.
 

Slyk Willy

Single-Sixer
Joined
Apr 14, 2012
Messages
318
I have a fairly well trained thumb. When I remove my LC9 from the holster, my thumb is in auto-mode and flicks that lever every time, even when I'm just putting it on the table. Always have one in the tube.
 

blume357

Hawkeye
Joined
Nov 15, 2005
Messages
8,573
I often make the comment on this forum as well as others that I don't understand or wish to own a pistol with the extra little metal tab on the back that has to be flipped to show the red dot in order to fire... really don't understand the function of it. I do own three pistols with a safety... two are "safely" stored away and the third is a Ruger Mark III and I don't believe I've ever flipped the safety on on it... don't know if it even works....
 

vito

Hunter
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
Messages
2,676
Mike J said:
blume357 said:
Funny thing about heights. If there is a 6" I beam 20' above the floor & there is other stuff near it (within 4 or 5 feet) I can walk it & it doesn't bother me. If you put the same I beam with nothing within 10 feet of either side of it & I need to get out there I will still do it but I will crawl it. The crazy part is intellectually I know one way is just as dangerous as the other but having other stuff nearby (pipes, conduit or whatever) gives me an illusion of safety. It doesn't make sense.

Sigmund Freud say that we do not necessarily have a fear of falling, but we have a fear of jumping. Maybe this holds for some about guns, that inwardly they fear that if they held a gun in their hand they would shoot it at someone or themselves, and a mechanical safety or having no round chambered makes them feel less likely to give in to that urge to shoot someone.

Personally I have no real concerns with this. I carry my concealed firearm with a chambered round, but in a holster, and if a revolver, with all the chambers filled, and again, in a holster with the trigger guard covered.
 

volshooter

Buckeye
Joined
Apr 12, 2002
Messages
1,522
If you need your firearm in a defensive situation, it to me is stupid for someone to have a unchambered round.
Things happen quick, ask a cop.
I can find no reason for someone to carry any defensive firearm unchambered, as long as they are familiar with that defensive device.
 

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