I Think I Solved My SR1911 Failure To Feed Problem

[IOwnRugers]

Sorry if this is a known issue but doing a search for SR1911 magazine produces endless results.

I've been having FTF's with my "Night Watchman" from day one so I sent it to Ruger and they replaced the slide. I went to the range yesterday and today and I'm still having occasional FTF's. They are stovepiping on the way in.

I believe I know what the problem is. The mags. I have four Ruger mags ((1)7, (2)8 and (1)10 ), one Chip McCormick mag and one Wilson Combat mag.

On all four Ruger mags, the top of the rim of the brass case extends beyond the back of the mag. This causes the rim to hang up on the top area of the frame just before the slide which in turn causes the nose of the round to lift up and bam, stovepipe. It only happens occasionally so I'm guessing that the rim doesn't always extend beyond the back of the mag. It's just a random occurrence based on all sorts of possible scenarios.

Pic 1 is a view from the bottom of the mag looking up. You can see the case sticking out beyond the back of the mag.
Pic 2 is a view of the side of the mag with the back of the mag sitting on a level. Compared to pic 3 of the same view you can see that the right side of the mag is sitting up above the level, not sitting flush and touching the level.
Pic 3 shows the side view after I press down on the mag which pushes the rim of the case flush to the back of the mag.

I've compared to the CM mag and WC mag as well as mags for other guns I own and all the other mags prevent the rim from protruding beyond the back of the mag. I never have stovepipes with the CM and WC mags or the other guns.

I will be calling Ruger tomorrow to tell them it's not fixed and I know why.

 

[Don Lovel]

I never use the stock 7rnd and 8rnd mags that came with my SR1911. Kimber & McCormick mags work better. The 7rnd Ruger mag is ok, but the 8rnd is not as reliable feed with hollowpoints. No stovepipes, just rounds flipping up as they hit the feed ramp, so I just use it for ball ammo

 

[IOwnRugers]

We're probably talking about the same failure. Nose lifts up because top of rim gets hung up on the frame so it doesn't go in straight and jams. Pull back on the slide a touch and the rear of the round lifts and then goes in straight. I just reported this to Ruger with pics. I have a feeling a lot of complaints are due to this. There's no reason why Ruger mags should be less reliable than third party mags. I think the taper and/or roll on the top of the mag is off and if they tighten it up a bit it will eliminate a lot of complaints.

 

[RCP1936]

The 8 rounder that came with my SR1911 had problems
It is a known problem with the 8 rounders
Ruger replaced it
I never used it and gave it away
I don't like the looks with the 8 round mag
No problems at all with my 7 rounders
FMJ 244 rds and various HPs (Federal Hi Shok--Federal HST--Speer Gold Dot ) 212 rds

 

[IOwnRugers]

I don't like the looks with the 8 round mag

I actually like the looks of it more than other 8 round mags because the plastic base forms to the base of the gun, especially in front. It fits into the notch. It's also heavy and well made aside from a dimension issue. But in the end it has to work.

I think if they roll the top just a bit tighter it will prevent the case from protruding out that back just like the other aftermarket mags.

As I was typing this they called and asked me to send them the gun and all of my mags including the aftermarket mags so that's what I'll do. Hopefully one way or another it gets solved as it's been there twice already. My first SR1911 was the standard stainless model and I never had an issue but when I sold it the mags went with it.

 

[dakota1911]

I never used the 8 rounders as I think they put the 7 rounder in the gun and I left the 8 rounder in the box. The CMDs used to come with two 7 round mags. We know that because on some forum a person was worried about it and thought he got cheated. Just got a Night Watchman in CMD size and didn't even see what the second mag was. I have so many mags that I am famous for just leaving a second mag in the box if you get two. Interesting fact to know, however.

 

[Don Lovel]

8 rnd flush fit Kimber & McCormick mags really work well for me. I carry the gun fully loaded with 9 rounds all the time.

 

[IOwnRugers]

After searching around and reading comments I get the impression that this is a well known problem, but this is only my second 1911 and they were both Ruger's so it's new to me and probably new to other people so I figured I'd document what I've found while trying to debug my FTF's. I think most people just toss the Ruger mags and buy aftermarket mags but it would be nice if they solved the problem. The way I see it either the frame needs a recess to accommodate the rim of the brass case or they need to change their mag design and or mag provider. You'll know what I mean if you watch my video.

https://youtu.be/6ueCfQjDGpg

 

[Desperado]

A few months back I took a small round chain saw file to the part of the frame that the rim of the case is hitting, took all of 3 min. to file the square out of the frame and make it round like my Remington frame came with, now it will run any mag that I have.

 

[Gunner4640]

I have both 1911's and use 4 of the 7rd's 1 CM 8 and 1 ruger 8 only had a few ftf's with the 8 rd ruger mag and that was yesterday at the rage happened 2 times. I took a pair of pliers and bent out the top of the mag on both sides and that took care of the problem

 

[IOwnRugers]

A few months back I took a small round chain saw file to the part of the frame that the rim of the case is hitting, took all of 3 min. to file the square out of the frame and make it round like my Remington frame came with, now it will run any mag that I have.

I was thinking of doing that with my dremel tool but this is a limited edition gun so I don't want to alter it. I'm going to see what kind of solution Ruger will offer. I might just have to use mags like Wilson where the case doesn't stick out so much and the follower is more flexible. Ruger asked me to send in my gun and all my mags including my aftermarket mags so it looks like they are being open minded and want to solve it.

 

[19ontheslide]

I watched your video and I'm still trying to understand how this magazine issue is causing your FTF problem. Are you only experiencing the jams when the slide comes forward on the first round of the magazine? If not I highly doubt the two issues are related. The cartridge rim catching on the rear of the frame would only be an issue as the mag is on its way into the gun and only for the top round. Once the magazine is locked into place (as it is during firing) subsequent rounds in the magazine are never going to touch that area of the frame where it's catching the top round's rim because the mag tube will be much higher in the receiver. Can you expound a bit on exactly what kind of malfunctions you're experiencing and when they're occurring?

 

[IOwnRugers]

No it's the opposite. I usually insert a full mag with slide open then release the slide so that's fine. But I do notice that the mag sometimes hits resistance on the way in not related to the mag release latch and figured out that the rim is catching the frame, exactly like in the video. But I've never jammed on the first round. My first call to Ruger was in fact that my mags don't insert properly. The mag release latch was changed but made no difference. Then they changed the slide and I still have the problem so it got me looking at the mags and the fact that the rims are hanging up on the frame.

I get random FTF's after the first round. It's not only the fact that the rim is protruding beyond the rear of the mag. Comparing Ruger mags with my Wilson and McCormick mags, rounds sitting on the Ruger followers sit with the rounds pointed slightly higher than the others to begin with (26 degrees vs 22 and 20 degrees). Ruger mags also have rolls on top that taper front to back, wide to narrow which can allow the nose to rise. The other two have parallel rolls which prevents the nose from rissing.

To add to this, the follower does not move as freely as the aftermarket mags. If I pull up on the front of my Ruger mags follower it will remain in that position. If I do the same with the other mags they spring back to normal position easily so even if the rim hits it will pass by the frame's ridge and go back to normal position before feeding (I think they have this figured out). Since the Ruger mag doesn't move freely, if the rim catches the frame the nose can remain stuck in the up position when it comes time to feed causing a jam. Since this all happens very quickly it doesn't take much to have the nose of a round in the upward position when time to feed.

The fact that you mentioned the Remington 1911 has a notch in the frame was very interesting to me and seems that they acknowledged the problem and moved to solve it.

I've spent a lot of time looking at this and it all makes sense to me. I think most people just toss the mags like was mentioned here so maybe Ruger doesn't even know how big of a problem it is. Maybe that's why they asked me to send them my Wilson and McCormack mags.

And, yes I do have too much time on my hands :wink: . I'm retired (disabled) so I have time to screw with this type of thing. I also came from a engineering background in high tech (25 years) specializing in debugging new computer designs including motherboards, cases and other metal designs so I'm conditioned to want to tinker with this stuff. It keeps me sane...

 

[19ontheslide]

"To add to this, the follower does not move as freely as the aftermarket mags. If I pull up on the front of my Ruger mags follower it will remain in that position. If I do the same with the other mags they spring back to normal position easily so even if the rim hits it will pass by the frame's ridge and go back to normal position before feeding (I think they have this figured out). Since the Ruger mag doesn't move freely, if the rim catches the frame the nose can remain stuck in the up position when it comes time to feed causing a jam. Since this all happens very quickly it doesn't take much to have the nose of a round in the upward position when time to feed."

-- The above is what I'm still not understanding. Once the magazine is locked into the receiver, none of the rounds in it (except possibly the top round as the magazine was being inserted) will ever touch that "hangup area" in the rear of the mag well. When the mag is in place, the rear of the magazine body completely covers that area of the receiver. The rims of the cartridges will never have an opportunity to hit that problem area in the course of the gun's function (except as noted, possibly the top round in the mag). How are you making the connection between this top round rim hangup on insertion of the mag and FTFs with subsequent rounds?

 

[IOwnRugers]

Pic 1: Left to right, CM mag, WC mag and the Ruger mag. You can see that the rolls on the Ruger mouth are tapered back to front getting wider at the front which allows the tip to sit higher. The others show the rolls are parallel.

Pic 2: Ruger, Wilson and Chip mags. Notice that the round in the Ruger mag has it's nose tipped up higher than the other two in it's natural position and more of the nose is shown vs the other two.

Pic 3: Two 8 round Ruger mags. I pulled up on the follower on the right mag and it stays put. The other two spring back to their normal position with the Wilson being the best. This prevents the nose from staying in the upward position even if the rim does catch the frame. It springs back and the round goes into the chamber straight vs tilted.

This is all theory based on what I see happening but I think it's the root cause of my FTF's and probably a lot of other FTF's.
I believe Wilson and CM figured this out and that's why their designs use parallel rolls at the mouth and allows the follower to rotate front to back without getting stuck. I also believe it's why bearcat says his Remington has a recess in his frame which allows any mag to work. The recess allows the rim to pass and prevents the nose from lifting.

I'll bet you one dollar I'm right! :lol:

 

[IOwnRugers]

I understand what you're saying and all I can think of is that once the next round up gets to the notch in the rear top of the mag and hits the frame it somehow tilts the nose up just as if it hits the ridge of the frame. Possibly because it's being pushed forward so there's less to keep it in place and the nose down. Those rolls are what keep the round in place so if it's forced forward there's less to keep it from tilting.
I'm not pretending to be a gun expert with all the answers but it's just that everything is pointing to this area as the problem and why the Wilson and CM mags work.

It could be as simple as the rounds moving front to back while firing and now and then one of them is too far forward which causes the nose to lift because of the wide mouth of the Ruger mag. Maybe I could make my own longer rounds that are just a touch shorter than the length of the mag so they can't move front to back.

Either way I'm done tinkering. I'm sending my gun and mags back for a third time and it's either going to be fixed or I'm asking for a new gun. My first SR1911 had zero issues over many hundreds of rounds so clearly something changed.

 

[redflstfi]

I have a few 1911's and have found the magazines delivered with most to be sub-standard. I've noticed sporadic problems that seem to be magazine related (with the exception to the horrible feed ramps on aluminum frame Kimbers) and therefore I now replace and utilize quality magazines from dedicated manufacturers/suppliers. I have found consistent performance in Chip McCormick. Kimber and Wilson magazines.

 

[jl1288]

Hi folks, I also have been having issues with a new night watchman cmd. Right out of the box it has had ftf same as described the nose of the bullet jammed up into the barrel hood. My gun jammed on the first round trying to chamber from a locked back slide to intermittent ftf after firing a round. Now the mags I've tried have been a mix of 2 colt 7rd, 2 mecgar 7rd, 2 8rd mecgar,and the 2 brand new Ruger 7rd mags. One thing I found that I haven't seen mentioned in this thread was that on my gun the extractor tension was very high. I removed the extractor and bent it to lighten the tension and it seems to have helped tremendously. The pistol will now chamber the first round from a locked back slide and now it is feeding rounds much better, although the Ruger mags still have an occasional ftf. The non Ruger mags have, and do feed reliably in both of my Springfield Armory 1911's. At any rate I have ordered a couple of Wilson combat mags to see if they will run 100% before I call Ruger to see what they suggest.

 

[IOwnRugers]

It seems to me that people often just toss bad mags and never let Ruger know about it. The cost of the gun includes cost of the mags so we may as well be getting what we are paying for. It's no secret that Ruger has one of the best if not THE best support of all the gun makers but they can't fix a problem if they don't know it exists. I urge anyone who has failures due to bad mags to contact Ruger and let them know. I'm confident that if they know they have a problem with mags they will fix it.

I don't know who makes mags for Ruger but the build quality is actually quite good and Ruger goes the extra mike by stamping their logo into the mags. If the FTF's I'm having is due to the mags and not the gun then a simple design change could be all that's required. Personally I think the tapered mouth is a problem and they should move to the parallel mouth like Wilson and Chip McCormick.

My $0.02

 

[Desperado]

From what I understand they are made by Checkmate and look to be of the Hybrid type, here is a link http://www.checkmatemagazines.com/cart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=12&idproduct=34