I think I just bought a decoration instead of a shooter :[

[Poomwah]

I used to have a .357 blackhawk and had to sell it one year so the kids could have christmas.
I finally got a chance to replace it. Found a 1979 online and just picked it up from the FFL last night.
I bought some winchester white box 38 spl fmj. Went out to have some fun. 21 feet shooting at a 2 liter bottle, the first three shots I missed :[
So, I went and set up a paper target. Next shot was about a foot left and about 8 inches low. Next shot was about a foot and a half left and about 6 inches low, next one was about 6 inches left and about 6 inches low. The rear sight was cranked all the way down already, so no elevation adjustment left. I adjusted the rear sight, fired a few more, etc. By the time I got the "group" centered I was covering up the entire bullseye with the front sight and had the rear sight adjusted so far right that the blade was flush with the sight base. And even then, at 25 feet, the group was about the size of a pie pan.
To put things in perspective, my last .357 used to group half that size at further a further distance, at that distance I can put a box of 50 in a fist size group from a 1911, smaller than a fist size with my single six, I can consistently hit 2 liter bottles from twice that distance with my m&p45.
I know that there might be other ammo that works better in this gun, but this is the ammo that is available locally, and what I shoot in everything else. Even if another brand of ammo will tighten the groups up, I'm still out of adjustment on my sights :[
Anybody have any insight or ideas?

 

[Bob Wright]

I'd have my gunsmith mill off the blade of the front sight and mill the remaining ramp for a taller front sight.

A litttle tuning and she'll be fine.

Bob Wright

 

[GunnyGene]

I'd have my gunsmith mill off the blade of the front sight and mill the remaining ramp for a taller front sight.

A litttle tuning and she'll be fine.

Bob Wright

Ditto. As for possibly being a ammo issue, here is the only on-line ammo supplier I use. I've talked with the owner personally. Quality ammo, good prices and excellent service.

http://www.underwoodammo.com/pistolammunition.aspx

 

[Poomwah]

thanks guys, wouldn't I want a shorter front sight? since it's hitting low , wouldn't a shorter front bring the point of impact up?

 

[princeout]

"The rear sight was cranked all the way down already, so no elevation adjustment left"

Here's my take - but double check because I'm sitting here waving my arms around, using fingers to fill in for sights and I may be backwards again! Anyway,

Raise the rear sight to raise the point of impact. Shorten front sight to raise point of impact.

Lower rear sight to lower point of impact. Add height to front sight to lower point of impact.

Check your barrel for level - might be "clocked" a bit, making it hit way left. I've had a couple of Rugers that had that issue.

Tim

 

[Poomwah]

oh my god Tim, that's right! The rear sight is reversed, no wonder its hitting low. I feel like a moron, lol.
Now, as far as the barrel being clocked, if it is, that would have to me a manufacturing defect , right? I mean, if the ejector rod housing still fits, the barrel couldn't have turned after it was made right? Wouldn't the erh screw hole have to be drilled in the wrong location for it to be clocked and still be able to attach the erh?
So I guess that leads to the next question. How would that be fixed? If I had a smith clock the barrel to compensate, then the screw wouldn't line up when they go to put the erh back on , right?

 

[Bob Wright]

thanks guys, wouldn't I want a shorter front sight? since it's hitting low , wouldn't a shorter front bring the point of impact up?

You are absolutely correct! Cut down the front blade.

And the barrel can be cranked around a fair amount without disturbing the ejector housing fit.



Bob Wright

 

[Poomwah]

thanks Bob,
I shouldn't need to shorten the front sight. Like Tim pointed out, the previous owner had the rear sight adjusted the wrong direction so I should be able to compensate for the elevation issue that way.
As far as the barrel being clocked, if it is , I can't tell :\

 

[Poomwah]

oh yeah, how far should a bullet be able to fit into the muzzle before it stops? I don't have another blackhawk to compare to. On my .45, if I press a round firmly into the muzzle, it will stop with copper still visible. If I do that with the .357, the bullet will stop with the case JUST barely touching the barrel. Does that mean the bore is too large for the bullets?

 

[Chuck 100 yd]

Jamming the bullet of a loaded round into the muzzle is a very poor way to try to measure the bore. The bore would have to be slugged,press a slightly oversize soft lead slug through the bore and mic it with an accurate micrometer. Clocking the barrel means that the front sight (should) stand straight up and not be canted at all. just a couple degrees of cant on the front sight can cause the bullet to impact to the side several inches. Clocking issues should be addressed by Ruger and they will take care of it as a factory defect.
Also remember single actions don`t handle or shoot the same as a 1911. I would let someone else who is a good SA shooter fire a few rounds with it to see how it hits for them.

 

[Eliminator]

My first inclination would be to raise the rear sight; that will get the point of impact up (as Tim stated and you realized :idea: ). Next I would check to see if the front sight is vertical and not leaning to the right (since it is hitting left). If it's tilted it may be due to a bent sight blade or the barrel needs to be clocked slightly. Then I would check the condition of the muzzle, making sure there is no obvious damage or marring. I would also check the bore for damage and excessive lead or copper fouling; especially the first inch or so inside the breech. Then, if at all possible, try different ammo, to include .357.
After that, if the accuracy is still not great and no apparent damage or sight alignment issues exist, I would have a reputable gunsmith look it over or consider sending it to Ruger for repair. They probably would not fix it under "warranty," but I hear their repair fees are very very reasonable.

ETA: What Chuck stated above...

Also remember single actions don`t handle or shoot the same as a 1911. I would let someone else who is a good SA shooter fire a few rounds with it to see how it hits for them.

 

[Poomwah]

thanks for the advice everyone.
I know a 1911 shoots differently, but I even said that with my last .357 blackhawk I could shoot smaller groups at longer distances, also mentioned my single six, which while I know its a rimfire, its still a single action.

The front sights looks to be vertical and not canted. The muzzle looks good.

 

[Eliminator]

thanks for the advice everyone.
I know a 1911 shoots differently, but I even said that with my last .357 blackhawk I could shoot smaller groups at longer distances, also mentioned my single six, which while I know its a rimfire, its still a single action.
The front sights looks to be vertical and not canted. The muzzle looks good.

I would try to scare up some different ammo.

 

[Poomwah]

thanks for the advice everyone.
I know a 1911 shoots differently, but I even said that with my last .357 blackhawk I could shoot smaller groups at longer distances, also mentioned my single six, which while I know its a rimfire, its still a single action.
The front sights looks to be vertical and not canted. The muzzle looks good.

I would try to scare up some different ammo.

I'll buy the next brand I can find :]

 

[Onty]

I used to have a .357 blackhawk and had to sell it one year so the kids could have christmas.
I finally got a chance to replace it. Found a 1979 online and just picked it up from the FFL last night.
I bought some winchester white box 38 spl fmj. Went out to have some fun. 21 feet shooting at a 2 liter bottle, the first three shots I missed :[
So, I went and set up a paper target. Next shot was about a foot left and about 8 inches low. Next shot was about a foot and a half left and about 6 inches low, next one was about 6 inches left and about 6 inches low. The rear sight was cranked all the way down already, so no elevation adjustment left. I adjusted the rear sight, fired a few more, etc. By the time I got the "group" centered I was covering up the entire bullseye with the front sight and had the rear sight adjusted so far right that the blade was flush with the sight base. And even then, at 25 feet, the group was about the size of a pie pan.
To put things in perspective, my last .357 used to group half that size at further a further distance, at that distance I can put a box of 50 in a fist size group from a 1911, smaller than a fist size with my single six, I can consistently hit 2 liter bottles from twice that distance with my m&p45.
I know that there might be other ammo that works better in this gun, but this is the ammo that is available locally, and what I shoot in everything else. Even if another brand of ammo will tighten the groups up, I'm still out of adjustment on my sights :[
Anybody have any insight or ideas?

You should definitely try another ammo, I would suggest get a 2-3 boxes (different brands) of jacketed 357 Magnum ammo (not 38 Special). I would try first 158 gr bullet. However, before start shooting, make sure that barrel is lead free. If there is some, most likely it's deposited in the area where barrel is screwed into the frame, see http://www.gun-tests.com/special_reports/accessories/Removing-Lead-Fouling189-1.html#.VHAA72czB8U .

If ammo is correct, barrel is clean and group is still lousy, revolver might have a problem

1. Cylinder has undersize bore. Check bores using plug gauges, look for a machine shop, almost every better shop has a set. Gauge .357 dia must go through every cylinder bore, .358-.359 dia is ideal. The truth is I am not aware that undersize bores was issue on 357 Rugers (45 Colt Ruger were notorious for undersize cylinder bores). However, odd things could happen; I know about one pricey 357 FA Model 83 that had this problem.

2. Barrel constriction in the threaded area where the barrel is screwed into the frame. This is very common problem on revolvers; on some, this could be just minor restriction so accuracy is not affected much, but if restriction is severe, revolver would not group.

For more information how to check this, and how to fix it, see http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/59 . Warning: if you find that cylinder has undersize bores, look for gunsmith who can open them properly. Do not try to fix them using the same method as Marshall did. He is very skilled, and few folks could do the same.

 

[DGW1949]

I've encountered factory 38Spl-130 FMJ ammo which used a .355 bullet, so I wouldn't be surprized if that's a part of your "group size" problem.
SA revolvers are very easy to push off target while firing, with the most common result being that the hits on the target strike "low-left".

Just saying that you may not have a gun problem. It might just be that you need a bit better ammo, and a little more time to get reaquainted with using a SA revolver.

DGW

 

[Onty]

I've encountered factory 38Spl-130 FMJ ammo which used a .355 bullet, so I wouldn't be surprized if that's a part of your "group size" problem.
SA revolvers are very easy to push off target while firing, with the most common result being that the hits on the target strike "low-left".

Just saying that you may not have a gun problem. It might just be that you need a bit better ammo, and a little more time to get reaquainted with using a SA revolver.

DGW

Looks like that somebody cut corners; .355 is 9mm bullet. Some greedy manager just do not know where to stop. I ques, you will not buy same ammo in foreseeable future...

 

[DGW1949]

I've encountered factory 38Spl-130 FMJ ammo which used a .355 bullet, so I wouldn't be surprized if that's a part of your "group size" problem.
SA revolvers are very easy to push off target while firing, with the most common result being that the hits on the target strike "low-left".

Just saying that you may not have a gun problem. It might just be that you need a bit better ammo, and a little more time to get reaquainted with using a SA revolver.

DGW

Looks like that somebody cut corners; .355 is 9mm bullet. Some greedy manager just do not know where to stop. I ques, you will not buy same ammo in foreseeable future...

More specificaly, a .355-130 FMJ was/is the "standard" bullet for the .38 ACP and.38 Super cartridges.....and yep, beings how both of those rounds are a "semi-rimmed" design, it has a crimp groove.

DGW

 

[ADP3]

You may want to run some copper solvent soaked patches through your bore to improve accuracy. Depending on how many jacketed bullets the previous owner shot you could have copper deposits in the bore which degrades accuracy. The deposits don't let the rifling get a proper grip on the bullet and accuracy suffers. If the wet patches come out a greenie-blue that's copper they are removing. Follow the manufacturers directions. If you leave the solvent in for a prolonged time it can etch your bore. I use the copper solvent, then dry patches, then oil-soaked patches and then finish off with dry patches again.

Best Regards,
ADP3

 

[Poomwah]

thanks ADP , I'll go grab some copper solvent and give it a try :]