I hesitate to post this,, but I hope it helps someone

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contender

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Thanks all.
Miss Penny was actually in a mindset of NOT understanding what was happening. She was about to get out of her car,, saw the guy as he got beside her car,, in her mirror, but I had already seen him. When it happened,, it scared her,, and sadly,, she did NOT immediately go for her gun.
I plan on gently working on her reactions etc very soon.

What's worse,, is later last night,, after we got home,, the local news had a story about a guy trying to kidnap 2 women not too far away from where we were. He was still on the loose last night.

And many of you see the holes in his story as I did,, after the fact. But,, if he had been intent on doing anything wrong,, I'll bet he'll think twice in the future.

I do hope everybody who reads this,, truly studies it deeply. We see so many stories in the news about cops having to make split second decisions,, based upon immediate events. And sometimes they are justified in their use of force,, and other times,, not.
And the folks who say; "If I pull my gun,, it'll go bang",, PLEASE look at things a bit differently. You need to think like a Boy Scout. "Be Prepared." If I had waited to see what would happen next,, and he'd had a weapon,, I would have been playing catch up.
Remember,, action is quicker than reaction.
I'd rather have it & NOT need it,, than need it & not have it.
But again,, you HAVE to truly evaluate everything closely,, and do so quickly.
He went for her door,, and I acted quickly,, perceiving a threat. I was already "aware."
He failed to obey commands,, making me more fearful,, yet he did NOT show a weapon. I was watching his hands and his body language. I was just about to use the door to force him away,, when he saw the gun,, and then backed away. He retreated,, so I backed down myself.
I didn't allow him an opportunity to move in on us,, as I kept myself facing his direction as we moved away.

All in all,, it may have been a harmless mistake on his part,, but in todays society,, we never know. So,, you have to be prepared,, both physically & mentally.
I said my prayers of thanks that it didn't get worse.
 

jimd441

Blackhawk
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Sorry you and Ms Penny had go through that Ty, but I must say you handled it totally professionally and your story serves as a model for me should I ever encounter a similar situation. Thanks for sharing.

Jim
 

eveled

Hunter
Joined
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It could have gone horribly wrong. If his story was true and he thought you were the aggressor and believed he was defending his wife against you.

If she had been more aware she could have driven off. Then you could have driven off and you both would have been able to read asess.
 

contender

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Good points eveled. However,, due to a few things,, that wasn't an option.

First, realize,, that we were both parked,, and engines off.
Penny's car was pulled in,,, and she would have had to back out,, and she has a few issues backing up.
Penny was about to open her door & get out. We were at our destination. As was I. I was also on the phone.
Things like this happen QUICKLY,,, where you HAVE to react,, and I was SUDDENLY faced with a stranger attempting to get into her car. I also had NO CLUE as to his intentions. Nor,, did he appear to have any disabilities, of any kind.
If he had been harmless,, which I was willing to allow for,, he could have just walked by.
If he was mistaken or confused,, his story of being partially blind,, or whatever,,, was totally unknown to us.

And one thing I haven't mentioned,, apparently the car HE told police he "thought" was his wife's car was a dark green Toyota Camry. Penny's car is a black Cadillac. The Toyota he mentioned was,, according to the police, on the totally opposite side of the building.

We have to act upon the actions of others.
If he had been confused, or whatever,, my yelling at him to get away, would normally scare away a person.

From the moment I saw him, until we were diffused & able to extract ourselves from his presence,, happened in 1, maybe 1-1/2 minutes,, total. That's his approach, his attempt, my actions, his failure to comply, to him seeing the gun then backing away, to me recovering my phone & getting out & getting Penny away. Maybe even less time. It happened quickly.
And if you study any video's of encounters,, you will see that such things do happen very quickly.
In thinking of the time factor,, I recall when I was in Martial Arts,, sparring with an opponent. Sometimes that 2 minute sparring was a VERY long 2 minutes.

And trying to drive away,, if he had been mistaken or whatever & called the cops,, me leaving the scene could be viewed as suspicious.

So, while your points may seem valid,, his actions do not add up to his explanations.

But again,, we ALL have to act according to what circumstances we are presented with. And when we took CCW,, your thought of him thinking we were the aggressors was covered. And,, I've also had a bit of other discussions with other CCW instructors, LEO's, & we have discussed this thought process. If that had been the case,, and I had actually had to use my firearm,, so far,, ALL of the knowledge I've learned points to it still being justified. He approached. He made the attempt. He failed to comply.

And to update y'all a bit.
As I mentioned,, I spoke with the Lieutenant over these officers. And he has allowed how I handled it TOTALLY properly,, (even though I should have called 911 myself.) And in a few discussions with a few other LEO's yesterday,, ALL feel I acted quite well, considering how much I restrained myself,, and was willing to wait until the threat elevated before taking any violent action. One even said; "Heck,, if it had been my wife,, we'd usually have our kids in the car,, and I probably would have shot him if just the door had opened."
I quickly told him; "Yeah,, but you KNOW better than to do that." He sheepishly agreed,, but I think he may have still acted with violence a bit quicker than I did. I will be talking with him a bit more when we can get one-on-one soon. He's a pretty good cop,, but he does have a tendency to anger quickly.

So, eveled,, while your points have merit,, in our case,, it really wasn't an option to drive off,,, and we acted as best we could.
 
Joined
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yes, if there is even a hint that the law has been called I think you stay in place. I've gone into unoccupied homes and either did not realize there was an alarm system or messed up and did not disengage it ... you go out side and wait for the police to arrive.

It is not common, but I've actually gone to homes where the person their did not remember I coming or was not informed and been greeted with them holding a gun.. never pointed at me but visible. I just keep my distance and slowly explain who I am.

I was once at a young woman's home and we were going through the house looking at the various fireplace's for about 5-10 minutes and I decided I needed to go up in the attic... she went through the access hole first and that is when I realized she was wearing a Glock on her side.
 

bogus bill

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I was a guard on graveyard. Our uniforms were the same as the sheriffs where I worked. I pulled up to a stop sign and made a left. As I did I noticed a car ahead turn it`s head lights on and start drifting slowly towards me and I got boxed in to a high curb with his front bumper almost touching mine. I instantly knew I was being car jacked.
I got out of my car before they could and stood up so they could see my uniform. I had my leather on with a empty holster as we would take the guard`s revolver that we relieved at work. I quartered my body so they (two black`s) couldnt see the empty holster. I said " you two ---- erds make a mistake? One laughed and said, awww we thought yo was a friend of ours. They scratched out. When I got home the next day I found out my neighbors son was home on his first furlough early that morning and was out jogging and the same two robbed and stabbed him! The guy recovered.
 

contender

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bobski,, I PURPOSELY did NOT tell the officers of my relationships with LEO's immediately,, BECAUSE I wanted them to accept me at my word & see if my explanation was good enough. I was honest,, through, and stressed the point of fear of what he was doing & might do to Miss Penny.

SW,, that night,, I was carrying a Kimber Ultra Compact II in .45 acp.
 
Joined
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Richmond Texas USA
Hey Tyrone,
Good job! I'm glad everything worked out the way it should.

I'm sure you remember this old post and incident that I had.
Anyway maybe some others have not read it.
I did point the my gun at someone :wink:

Well Guys,
This is a first.
I had just gotten out of the shower and into my skivvy shorts when I hear Spanish being spoken in my upstairs. Yea where the unloaded guns are. All except for my 1918-1911 which was in my hand. Doesn't take long for this old one eyed fat man to get to the nightstand and get the 1911. Oh yea you can bet your sweet arsh it's loaded.
No one in my family speaks Spanish except me. Like in Dosh Cervasisaioes Perdever, OR 2 beers and be damn quick about it. So probably not family members.
Well I can hear footsteps and Spanish upstairs so I take a few minuets to get my wits together. I clear all the downstairs rooms very quietly. I then go to the bottom of the stairs and use the door next to the stairs as cover for left barricade.
As I slowly peek around the door I see a female at the top of the stairs with her back to me. I'm now in firing position when I say "Alto" very loud and clear. Well she turns around and her eyes get very large. Probably because she has never seen and old fat white guy in his skivvies. Well maybe the 1911 aimed at her chest might have had a little to do with it. I did not have the hammer back but thumb was on it. No problem since I have the fastest thumb this side of the Missisip. I might add that I was in the proper stance with a beautiful two hand left barricade hold.. Well about this time female # 2 comes out with a phone in hand and talking to someone. Well I didn't see much of a threat in being phoned to death so I relaxed a little, but gun was still pointed to #1 female. Very good thing a guy didn't come out with her. Things could have gotten realllllllll ugly.
# 2 comes down stairs and hands me phone. I ask just who the hell might I be speaking to. Well it was my neighbor who was at work and he told me these were his new maids that came to clean his house.
I wasn't to polite in the the way I told him to tell the dumb arsh maids what a house #15 which is mine and a#13 which is his look like. He thinks it is funny and I told him so he could understand how this could have gone wrong. I will be talking to him like a Stepson when I see him FTF.
So the maids came into the garage by way of patio door then into house from the garage. Wifeie had left through garage so door is unlocked. Doors are unlocked most of the time anyway.
Well that was a fun way to start the day. All bad things have good. Gave me another story to write for you guys. The story well was just about empty.
Jim
 

bogus bill

Hunter
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utah
About 45 years ago I could have bought it. I was sitting in my living room cleaning a replica colt navy. There was a loud police style knock on my front door. Fortunately for me I laid the gun on the coffee table and answered the door. A plain cloths detective and a gray headed uniform sergeant was on each side. One said there had just been a holdup at a shop downtown and the guy had a truck just like mine. I said well it wasn't this one. He asked me to pop the hood and feel the engine. First he asked if I had driven it today. It must have been 106 degrees. He felt the engine, said sorry, but at the same time a kid officer stepped from behind the truck with a shotgun. The young officers face was beet red! That was a lucky day for me! Had I answered the door with my gun I would have made the obits! I later met him a few times.
 

M. HALL

Bearcat
Joined
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83
Location
Massachusetts
Glad you and Ms Penny are still around, unhurt and a little more aware of some of life's crappy lessons. "you did good".

Be well. Matt
 

Hawk-in-Wi

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contender said:
bobski,, I PURPOSELY did NOT tell the officers of my relationships with LEO's immediately,, BECAUSE I wanted them to accept me at my word & see if my explanation was good enough. I was honest,, through, and stressed the point of fear of what he was doing & might do to Miss Penny.

SW,, that night,, I was carrying a Kimber Ultra Compact II in .45 acp.

you don't think he recognized the last name and put 2 and 2 together ?
 

Hawk-in-Wi

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contender said:
Good points eveled. However,, due to a few things,, that wasn't an option.







And to update y'all a bit.
As I mentioned,, I spoke with the Lieutenant over these officers. And he has allowed how I handled it TOTALLY properly,, (even though I should have called 911 myself.) And in a few discussions with a few other LEO's yesterday,, ALL feel I acted quite well, considering how much I restrained myself,, and was willing to wait until the threat elevated before taking any violent action. One even said; "Heck,, if it had been my wife,, we'd usually have our kids in the car,, and I probably would have shot him if just the door had opened."
I quickly told him; "Yeah,, but you KNOW better than to do that." He sheepishly agreed,, but I think he may have still acted with violence a bit quicker than I did. I will be talking with him a bit more when we can get one-on-one soon. He's a pretty good cop,, but he does have a tendency to anger quickly.


So, eveled,, while your points have merit,, in our case,, it really wasn't an option to drive off,,, and we acted as best we could.

sounds about what a Cop would do , because they know they CAN do it and get away with doing so, been proven many times , they're special , all they have too do is say they feared for their lives and it's all good , as a private citizen we don't get that luxury
 

contender

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"you don't think he recognized the last name and put 2 and 2 together ?"

I don't know.
Since the LEO's didn't ask for my ID,, and I introduced myself, maybe,, or maybe not. I suspect that they had run my tag on my truck to see who I was. But the (2) LEO's who came in did not know me.
It was never discussed.


Jim,
I do recall your story. It shows how quickly mistakes can be made by innocent people. Enter the wrong house,, and things can go wrong quickly.
 

Swampbilly_2

Bearcat
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Jan 27, 2015
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I hesitate to post this thread,, but maybe my experience tonight may help others.

I had to pull my gun,, as a precaution,, tonight,, due to the actions of another person.

I NEVER pointed it at them,, and had it close to my chest, in "low ready".

Now, the story.
We had a FoNRA meeting tonight at a local cafe. Miss Penny works nearby,, so I drove to meet her there. She was already there when I arrived. Where she parked,, there were no other cars nearby,, and she had pulled nose in. I pulled just past her,, turning away, and backing into the spot next to her. We were side by side.
As I was parking,, there was nobody around, nor any vehicles nearby.
Just after I got my truck in park, my cell phone rang, and as I answered it,, I saw a guy, a stranger,, a bit unkempt, come from across the parking area,, and the bushes there, heading directly at us. My first thought was; Beggar wanting money.
Well, as he entered the area between the vehicles,, he came to Penny's door, and grabbed the door handle, trying to open it.
I IMMEDIATELY dropped my phone, grabbed my gun into the ready position, one handed, and with the other hand, opened my door about 1/3rd of the way,, (and hanging onto it,) while VERY loudly,, saying; "Get away from her car!"
I fairly shouted the commands 4 times, w/o him complying. He did try & say something and had backed about 1-1/2 steps back from Penny's door handle.
I was about to hit him with my door to get him away from her, and me,, when he looked across the door panel, and saw my gun. He said; "You got a gun!"
He THEN,, moved towards the front of my truck,, saying; "I'm calling the police!"
I said; "Go ahead, please do!"
I got out, got Penny out & we moved inside the cafe. All the while, I never took my eyes off him. Removing ourselves from the situation.

In about 5-10 minutes,, 2 officers came into the cafe,, and when I saw them, I motioned to them I was "the guy!"
Well, 2 very polite officers came over & talked to both of us, briefly. As they approached, I spoke up saying I was armed & had CCW. The first officer said; "I figured so!"
I first (calmly) introduced myself & Penny. And why we were there. Another lady committee member was also there.
Then, I explained the following;
(1) An unkempt stranger had suddenly appeared, coming straight towards us.
(2) Said stranger attempted to get into my wife's car,, with her inside, frightening her a lot.
(3) Said stranger failed to obey 4 LOUD commands to back away.
(4) I never pointed my gun at him, even though I was quite ready if HE escalated the threat.
(4) That once he saw I was armed,, he finally moved away to a distance I felt I could use to get away from him.
(5) That I had kept my door between us to use as a shield, or as a method to hit him, INSTEAD of having to shoot him unless absolutely necessary.
(6) That my phone had been on, and that the caller was actually a member of our committee, and on his way over & could explain what he heard.

I then added the following;
That my son is a Detective of that County.
That a Lieutenant in his Dept knows both of us quite well, and would vouch for our character.

Both officers were quite polite, and to be honest,, felt as if all was quite understandable. That I was not in any trouble,, that they just wanted to verify our side of things.
Then, they allowed how the guy was "partially blind" and "thought" he was getting into his wife's car. I asked; "Does blindness keep you from hearing shouted commands?"
That got a smile. And a response of "No."
They didn't "grill me" or anything. In fact it went very quickly. Very professional,, and I think they handled things quite well.
Kudos to them both. I plan on stopping by their PD at some point to make sure their supervisors know how much I appreciated their professionalism.

As they were leaving,, I politely asked them to give my regards to their Lieutenant,, and to always go home safely.

Folks,, you never know who, what, when , where a potential threat may occur. But you also MUST be able to NOT overreact & do anything you'd regret.
I did not want to engage into any physical or potentially deadly altercation with him,, but I was prepared if necessary.
My plan had been to use my door first,, IF,, IF,, he'd tried anything w/o a weapon visible.

And I should have called 911 myself,,, but I didn't figuring that the guy already had. But, my son says I should have done so,, so that there is a recorded message of MY side of things. My mistake there.

Was this guy a problem or not? I didn't know. All I knew was what I was presented with.
He wasn't wearing glasses or anything indicating he had a vision problem. So,,, IF,, IF,, he does,, how was I to know that? And,, he went DIRECTLY to us,, and to Penny's drivers door, and was able to get his hand on the door handle. If he has any blindness, I'd surely question all of his moves that NEVER gave any indication of it.
This kind of stuff is exactly what officers are presented with when calls go out. They are unaware of anything,, and can only act upon the knowledge they have been given, as well as what they evaluate upon arrival at the scene.
When I hear about officer involved shootings,, (think about the Wisconsin shooting recently,) where the thug resisted, went around a vehicle, got a knife,, ALL BEFORE an officer fired his weapon. That officer acted properly,, and yet,, he's been vilified in the media,, while the thug was on Good Morning America (I think.)

But,, we ALL,, as responsible gun owners MUST,, MUST be extremely careful at all times,, to NOT over-react.
I was complimented by the other lady committee member for my restraint & levelheadedness in handling this.

Maybe this experience can help others.

He obviously was not too "blind" to see that you had a Firearm at the ready !
"Mistook" an entire car....SAW the much smaller sidearm - Uh, hugh!
 

Mobuck

Hawkeye
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missouri
"Had I answered the door with my gun I would have made the obits! I later met him a few times."
This comment is a big concern for me. I'm ALWAYS armed and MO is an open carry state so any interaction with a LEO is going to be 'Barney vs armed citizen'. This is NOT the way it should be. A cop is no more justified in shooting a legally armed citizen than the citizen would be in outright shooting the LEO.
 

mistermills357

Blackhawk
Joined
Nov 9, 2012
Messages
779
I‘ve drawn a gun on people a few times, but I have yet to shoot anyone.
But in the current milieu in America, who can tell if I will need to shoot.

With abjects and criminals being prevalent, it might still happen, and I shoot them. And if it is some guy that appears from nowhere, and seems intent upon crime, then I can live with that.
 

Rook

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Hampton, GA
My wife had a guy try to get her car door open one time. She was blocked in where she couldn't get away so she stuck her .38 snubby in his face and he ran like a scared rabbit. Good choice on his part.

I was changing a flat tire on an off ramp on the Interstate in Atlanta one evening on the way home from work when 2 nasty looking guys stopped in an old Ford Bronco just up in front of me and got out. I told them I didn't need any help but thank you anyway. They kept walking toward me so I motioned them back with my hands a few times incase they didn't know English and they still didn't leave. I reached into the car and pulled my gun out of the console. I guess that's a universal language they seemed understand immediately.
You don't always have to come out with guns blazing. I gave them a choice to stay and get shot or leave. They made a good choice.
 

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