How to hot blue, for those that want to know

[Greg G]

Hello Gentlemen, this is my first post here.

Thank you for this thread. I have a question about it.

I have a revolver I want to re-blue, a Blackhawk in .45 Colt. It is parkerized now (I bought it that way). I plan on doing a really nice polish job on it, and wondered if this formula and process would dull a mirror like finish, or leave it intact?

Many thanks,

Greg

 

[Denny Crane]

Bluing will not change the level of polish at all. It also will not improve or hide any imperfections in anyway.

After bluing it will look exactly as it did before except it will be blue/black.

 

[Greg G]

Thank you.

 

[Greg G]

Another newb question about bluing.

How does this formula compare to commercial formulas, like those from Brownells or Du-Lite? The same finish, or would it be better to invest in a *brand name* product?

Thanks again.

 

[Denny Crane]

In general there is very little difference. Should you invest in brand name products? Everyone's situation and goals are different.

I can tell you that I spent many hours and enough money experimenting with this that the lesson will never be forgotten. Do I regret it? No, I enjoyed every minute of it.

There is a lot of information available and I can't think of any of it that was wrong. It's all in the prep work, one shortcut equals failure.

Now that I have everything I need to do it right, know how to do it right, and have done it right, I think I will take the first advice I was given, let someone else do it.

Or maybe I should just quit buying guns that need refinished??

 

[tateb24]

Are there any pictures of the completed bluing process

 

[gyrhed]

I LOVE THIS POST.

WOW, someone that is not afraid to post a potentially dangerous process and give otherwise difficult to find information to people that may not have been trained to deal with this stuff a chance to make up their own mind.

I am a degreed Chemical Engineer, Registered Mechanical. As chemical processes (even common home chemicals) go this one is actually pretty docile. Slightly worse than developing photographs at home. These chemicals alone or combined are relitively easy to deal with and present no long lasting problems like the spray you put on your peach trees, the gasoline evaporating in you garage, painting a car, or many other things. They spray sodium hydroxide on tomatoes to remove the skin. So yes you might get burned from a spill but rubbing on a baking soda slurry and flushing with lots of water will fix it right up. Ammonia vapors do not knock you dead on contact nor does it imediately scar your lungs. Your really have to ignore the pain and burning in your lungs and watery eyes for quite a while before any real damage is done. I AM NOT SAYING ANY IDIOT CAN GO OUT AND DO THIS IN HIS GARAGE WITH THE DOOR OPEN. Wear goggles, long chemical resistant gloves, and long well fitting clothes so that if a really oddball accident occurs like the dog knocking your buleing tank off the turkey fryer you can strip out of the clothes in a hurry and jump in the shower. Do I do ALL that? I have to admit, NO. But sometimes familiarity breeds a lacadasical additude, do as I say not as I do. Thats why so many experienced carpenters are missing the tip of a finger, a nail , or worse. I ALWAYS PROTECT MY EYES AND I HAVE AN EYEWASH ON THE UTILITY SINK IN MY GARAGE. If your face is splashed DO NOT take any chances. At the very least always have a water hose and baking soda handy. If I deal with really bad stuff I take my large turkey fryer and mix baking soda with warm water so I can throw a hand or arm down in it of even my head.

The potential for getting hurt here is probably less than starting your chain saw, as long as you follow g17's directions.

 

[martyj]

placing a barreled action into the hot tanks is a very awkward and dangerous proposition...must angle it and do this facing "away" from you, as it can and will shoot 'solution' ( bath) out the open, upper end....seen it happen MANY times..........\

I have the scars to vouch for rugerguy on this subject from my old job.
Wear a face shield and keep vinegar on hand to neutralize the acid the clothes you forget all about when it eats through them in seconds.
It was a great place to work. They told me "if you cant catch your breath you are allowed to go outside".(Hydrochloric acid fumes) Good thing OSHA inspected them and said it was perfectly safe.
The guys that worked there long period of years usually died around 60sof heart or lung failure.

 

[I_Like_Pie]

Yeah...the ammonia that it puts out is pretty strong, but the whole process is just about as dangerous as frying a turkey.


The only problem that I have now is getting the chemicals. The sodium hydroxide is easy and cheap. got 10 pounds at a soapmaking supplier for about $12

The saltpeter/potassium nitrate is about impossible for me to get locally and you can forget about ammonium nitrate. Good grief it is one of the most abundant chemicals made and it is stupid the regulations they put on it's purchase. I resorted one time to buying instant cold packs. Refuse to go through the rather unsavory process of making it myself (the chemistry folks know how they used to make it...).

You can buy saltpeter on ebay pretty cheap. Go figure. Works perfectly....pitch black parts if 295

 

[meshugunner]

I LOVE THIS POST.

WOW, someone that is not afraid to post a potentially dangerous process and give otherwise difficult to find information to people that may not have been trained to deal with this stuff a chance to make up their own mind.

I am a degreed Chemical Engineer, Registered Mechanical. As chemical processes (even common home chemicals) go this one is actually pretty docile. .

Sober and rational advice. Thank you. People too often get hysterical about such things. After all, it's a gun! When the process is done you are probably going to shoot the darn thing which, if you are careless, is far more dangerous than a few splatters of caustic chemicals on your skin.

BTW I use ammonia regularly for household cleaning. It's very cheap and very effective. If you get a burned residue on the bottom of a cooking pot, ammonia will soften it up in an hour or so.

PS, I am totally mystified about using baking soda as a neutralizing agent. I would have thought that vinegar would be a better choice.

 

[I_Like_Pie]

I use vinegar and have a bottle beside my bluing setup at all times.

I haven't had to do it yet, but I imagine I could do a full Chippendale strip and bath in vinegar in a matter of seconds if I had 300 degree bluing salts soaking though my clothing.

 

[g17]

Years later, a note to the safety police or others that feel like this is above their head, Don't try this! Also, I'm not suggesting anyone try this. For me, several decades ago, I worked for a well known individual that "builds" 1911 race guns, in other words, customizes them along with just about every other hand and long gun you can imagine. One of the things I always wanted to know was how to hot blue guns and thus, I learned well and is why I posted this because I knew others in the gun world might want to know also. This is not a difficult process. It requires patience particularly in the prep/polishing area and more importantly, Common Sense.

A few notes,

* again, ALWAYS WEAR FULL EYE PROTECTION, Chemical resistant gloves, and protective clothing! I cannot emphasize the eye protection enough. One small drop of this stuff will result in permanent eye damage and vision loss. Anytime you are around bluing salts, use a full face shield or goggles, not your shooting glasses.

* When you first mix the chemicals, regardless if you use this recipe or the salts from Brownells, etc, there will be a VERY Strong ammonia smell And as I originally stated, mix the chemicals outside. The initial strong ammonia smell will go away and that will be the end of it. As some have stated, ammonia fumes, while not pleasant, are not going to kill you unless you subject yourself to the punishment required to succumb to them.

* Does this work as well as brand X bluing salts? Yes, it works better than any of the brands that I've tried. It's more durable and mimics the same beautiful finish found on pre-war weapons. As a poster pointed out, this recipe was found in older gunsmithing manuals. At one time folks didn't just pick up the phone and order crap, they made it.

* Will this dull high polished steel? No, the more you polish, the higher the shine will be on the completed piece. If you correctly polish the metal out to 1000 grit, your finish will trump what used to be found on Colt Pythons.

* What about parts that come out brown? Make sure you use distilled water. Expect the parts to come out with some brown tint to them, you just oxidized them. After removing from the bluing salts, rinse and then scrub them with dawn and XXXX steel wool to remove the brown and you will have a black/blue finish.

* My part didn't come out dark enough. Scrub the piece with dawn and xxxx, rinse completely, wipe dry and place back in heated bluing salts for an additional 20 minutes. Repeat as necessary.

* So and so who happens to be a nuclear scientist and studies moon rocks says blah, blah, blah. Proof is in the pudding. Using this recipe or any other bluing salts can and will result in burns and loss of eyesight if proper care is not taken. ALWAYS USE PROPER EYE PROTECTION! As one poster stated, the danger equivalent is that of deep frying a turkey. If this is over your head, DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS!

 

[TINCANBANDIT]

I have been using this process for a few years, I learned much the same way. I use Sodium Nitrate rather than Ammonium Nitrate, Sodium Nitrate is easier to come by.

I did a write up on my blog here: http://tincanbandit.blogspot.com/2013/05/a-lesson-in-refinishing.html

I have dozens of pictures of guns that I have restored. It helps to grow my collection when you can buy two or three rusty guns for the price of one nice one and then restore them yourself

 

[thomaskling]

Good to know this process but it sounds like obtaining the chemicals could be difficult after West Texas was blown up by ammonium nitrate. I have had good results with Hoppe's #9 Cold Blue Kit after I learned to not follow their directions. The gun in question is a Remington Model 34 Bolt Action 22 cal. Rifle (Circa 1932-35). My first attempt I followed their instructions but disregarded their statement about small areas only. I mean if it works on a small area, why not a full length barrel ? I sanded the metal and used the cleaner that came with the kit. I then applied the blue liquid with the applicator and after three minutes I rinsed it in water and wiped dry. The results were not satisfactory as the finish was not blue but more of a bronze color. Better than before but not blue. A year or so after the first attempt I took the ammo tube off the gun and sanded back to bare metal with progressive grit down to 800 grit. Used their cleaner several times and applied the liquid blue to the tube and continued putting it on for about 15 minutes. When a spot dried I would re-wet it with the liquid. Instead of washing off with water, I wiped it down with RemOil. The results were good, I had a dark blue finish and then did the rest of the gun. With the stock also refinished the gun looks like new.

 

[thomaskling]

Reply to Meshugunner : I did not read all the posts before making my post so I missed your comments about Ammonia. It appears that you are confused about the chemicals used in this process. It is not household Ammonia used in this process, but ammonia nitrate. Yes there are Ammonia fumes that come from the chemical reaction, but liquid Ammonia is not used. While your intention might well be to throw in a unrelated comment about using household Ammonia for cleaning, it could cause confusion to some.

 

[TINCANBANDIT]

Reply to Meshugunner : I did not read all the posts before making my post so I missed your comments about Ammonia. It appears that you are confused about the chemicals used in this process. It is not household Ammonia used in this process, but ammonia nitrate. Yes there are Ammonia fumes that come from the chemical reaction, but liquid Ammonia is not used. While your intention might well be to throw in a unrelated comment about using household Ammonia for cleaning, it could cause confusion to some.

You need a nitrate for this and Ammonium Nitrate is the hardest to get as it is a great oxidizer for AMFO bombs. You can also use Potassium or Sodium Nitrate

Potassium Nitrate (also known as Saltpeter) is a main ingredient in black powder as well as a stump remover and other food & industrial uses

Sodium Nitrate is a fertilizer that is also used in food production (hot dogs and sausages) and other industrial processes, it is by far the easiest to get. I get mine from a Pottery Supply house.

For those overly concerned about safety, this is no different that pumping your own gas, grilling a steak or boiling water....all of these things CAN be dangerous, buy if you use common sense, wear your PPE and are vigilant about safety...all will be fine