Hot barrel?

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Rclark

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First I find I have good days and bad days. That said, even on good days my shooting seems to be on a curve. I get a bit better as I go, peaks for a while (in the zone, so to speak), but then ... it starts to fall off. I think fatigue may be setting in as the mind starts to 'wonder'. The concentration isn't there. Time to pack up and go or just shoot for the fun of it and not worry about groups :) ... I stay away from H-110/W296 loads as they are absolutely no fun to shoot at the range. Like to have 'fun' not wrist/elbow-itis.... :)
 
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J. Yuma

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First I find I have good days and bad days. That said, even on good days my shooting seems to be on a curve. I get a bit better as I go, peaks for a while (in the zone, so to speak), but then ... it starts to fall off. I think fatigue may be setting in as the mind starts to 'wonder'. The concentration isn't there. Time to pack up and go or just shoot for the fun of it and not worry about groups :) ... I stay away from H-110/W296 loads as they are absolutely no fun to shoot at the range. Like to have 'fun' not wrist/elbow-itis.... :)
The more people that reply to this thread, the more I realize that:
1. slow down
2. shoot fewer rounds
3. maybe bring two revolvers and alternate them, shoot 6 through one, and switch.
At first I was thinking two .44's.
Now I'm thinking one .44 and something else.
 

J. Yuma

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I'm wondering if I could sneak a Single 6 past the inspector, or just stick with the Heritage.
I gotta use my ebay account for "clandestine" purchases.
 

contender

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Cash is king. Forget sleezebay,, and other such places. That way,, you can get what you seek,, and don't have to explain to anyone what you spent money on.
 

J. Yuma

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sold a lotta stuff on ebay.
I had to have a bank account.
That bank account is my cash piggybank.
But I still gotta get what I buy past inspection.
What started as a single Heritage .22 has morphed into 4 revolvers. She's gonna catch on sometime.
 

contender

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Well,, I guess I'm lucky. Miss Penny is a "gun girl" and doesn't mind any of my purchases associated with my affliction known as "Rugeritis." I don't tell her what she can & can't buy,, and she treats me the same way.
Besides,, it's a hobby that keeps me at home & never doing stupid stuff like bar hopping, drinking excessively, smoking or whatever. :D
 

J. Yuma

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Ms J is a Home Depot girl, I never tell her what to buy, she tells me what I must remodel.
Our marriage is built on trust, she doesn't trust me...
She thinks the SBH and the Roughrider are the same gun, (it's like Clark Kent and Superman, I never display at the same time)
 

J. Yuma

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H110 is a hotter powder meant for top end loads. That translates into more felt recoil in general. Slow down a bit.
Shot 60 rounds with the SBH, all at 75 feet.
My intent today was to slow down and try to let the gun cool. I purposely put the gun down after every two shots. I had a pair of binoculars so I could track every pair of shots.
I felt the barrel before each two shot salvo.
Nice, soft loads of HP38, 7.8 grains, Missouri Bullet 240 grain hi-tek SWC
I felt like I improved.
Next session, I'm going to wait in between every shot to see if that helps.
also:
Today I reasoned that windage is pretty much on the shooter, but elevation includes both the shooter and the load.
So I sighted in the windage, but changed the point of aim to adjust the elevation.
 

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Pál_K

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I'm a relaxed shooter, I will shoot maybe 40 rounds in two hours and then go home.

For competition I've not worried about hot and cold barrels, or clean vs fouled barrels.

I do know that military snipers have to know where their first shot is going to hit out of a clean cold barrel and where subsequent shots may deviate from that - although the idea is one shot, one kill.

I have a Sako 75 Varmint in .222 with a 16x Leupold Mk IV that will shoot 0.5 MOA at 100 yards in the hands of an average shooter as myself. I have made a special target for it which has six 0.5 MOA dots, but also has "sighter dots" in a separate area for when the rifle is cold, or I change ammo, or when a new shooter just wants to see where he is hitting with it first.

In IHMSA, you get five sighters, if you want, prior to starting your shots for score. When shooting for score, you get 30 seconds to load, then two minutes to shoot five shots at a bank of five targets. Then there's a ceasefire and a delay while targets are reset. The load and fire sequence is repeated until you've shot at all 40 targets.

I will shoot sighters, so my barrel is fouled and somewhat warm when starting to shoot for score.

But the reason hot vs cold doesn't matter for me is because of what I shoot: In Revolver class, I shoot standing, open sights, with my S&W M29, 8-3/8". My ability to hold steady has more of an effect than anything else. To my knowledge, nobody has ever shot a perfect 40 standing with open sights, regardless of firearm. In Production class I shoot a T/C Contender, .30-30, open sights 10" and in Unlimited class an XP-100, 7mmBR, open sights, 14". I shoot both in the Creedmore position and they're accurate enough that as the barrel goes from cold to hot, hits on the 50 meter chickens are easy. The barrel temperature doesn't seem to be a factor for the pigs, turkeys, and 200 meter rams - all the hits seem to be roughly in the same place. Point of impact may change due to temperature, but the Contender and XP-100 are accurate enough that if your sights are set for a center hit given a leg-body-junction hold, a shot should still be well on the target.

When target shooting with bolt action rifles, I do keep the bolt open after firing a shot, to let cool air circulate through the bore; I may wait a minute between shots. I do this so that a round isn't getting its powder heated in the chamber (which may affect point of impact) and also because I know heat affects barrel life.

With semiautos, handguns and rifles, I usually shoot no faster than a round every five seconds simply because I think it's better for the barrel.

Then there's Chris on Honest Outlaw can empty a 15 round Glock magazine in under five seconds and still get 100 yard hits after thousands of rounds. Fun to watch.
 
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J. Yuma

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whelp, I shoot once a week most times, at most 3x a week. A range officer told me about guys that practice a lot. You sound like what he was talking about.

I think the rest in between shots, and shooting 60 light loads rather than 70+ with H110, was a big difference, but I figured it wasn't hurting the gun either.

I'm really interested in the standing revolver competition. How far from the target?
How much time for how many shots?

I started using a rest when I figured out that holding steady was most of the game.

In any event, I think I'm going to follow your practice of "relaxed shooting."
 

Pál_K

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whelp, I shoot once a week most times, at most 3x a week. A range officer told me about guys that practice a lot. You sound like what he was talking about.

Unfortunately, I go to the range about once, maybe twice, a month. So, not a lot of practice these days. I consider myself an average shooter, though I have rifles that shoot pretty tight groups.

I'm really interested in the standing revolver competition. How far from the target?
How much time for how many shots?

Animal targets are life-size: chickens pigs, turkeys, and rams. There are 10 of each animal. The ram weighs 55 pounds. You have to topple it to get a point, otherwise you get zero.

You get 30 seconds to load, then two minutes for your first five chickens. Cease fire for maybe 10 minutes, and the cycle repeats for the next five chickens, then again for pigs, turkeys, and rams.

Distance is 50 meters (55 yards) to the chickens.

100 meters (110y) to the pigs.

150 meters (160y) to the turkeys (the hardest target)

200 meters (220 y) to the rams.

There are smaller half-size targets and .22 targets for the other classes.

Not many people shoot standing. Fewer use a revolver. The T/C Contender is most common, followed by the XP-100.

Back in the day, 1980's, you had to use open sights only. Now scopes are permitted - they put you in a different class though.

I have used only open sights.

The Creedmore position is what many use; it is a simple and very stable 3-point position: lie on your back, knees drawn up, left wrist behind your head with fingers on the ground like a tripod, right elbow on the ground, right wrist against right thigh, barrel along right shin, projecting past your body so you don't shoot your leg. A very steady position. If you're doing this with a revolver, you need a leather blast shield covering your leg so that the flame from the cylinder gap doesn't burn you.

I shoot revolver standing, T/C and XP in Creedmore.

My use of a S&W M29 is uncommon, the Ruger Blackhawk was the big favorite, followed by Dan Wesson.

Even so, I've put thousands of rounds through my M29 and it's pretty accurate still after 35+ years.

For big bore, the most common calibers have been 7 TCU (essentially .223 necked to 7mm), 7mm BR, .30 Herrett, .30-30, .44 Magnum, and .357 Maximum (not Magnum).


The sport has become more complicated these days; it used to have fewer classes and was easier to understand. I think the aging membership and aging membership's eyesight is what has led to scopes and so many classes. That, and many just want to have an easier time getting a higher score. All the details are here:


In any event, I think I'm going to follow your practice of "relaxed shooting."

For me, shooting is more social now than for doing practice, although I am more serious when testing out new guns that I buy or to test out new loads - that is actually fun.
 

J. Yuma

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As I'm not sure how to use the quote feature, so cut and paste:

Distance is 50 meters (55 yards) to the chickens.

100 meters (110y) to the pigs.

150 meters (160y) to the turkeys (the hardest target)

200 meters (220 y) to the rams.(!!!)

I don't think I could see a target at 220 yards, let alone hit it with a revolver standing up!
Maybe I could hit a chicken 🍗
 

Pál_K

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I don't think I could see a target at 220 yards, let alone hit it with a revolver standing up!

Sure you can. This range has black targets, most common, but here in Worsington state the targets are painted white to stand out better from the foliage.

IMG_5222.jpeg


The very first time I shot Silhouette I got a whopping total of 4 out of 40. However, one of those was a ram and the thrill of seeing a ram slowly topple over about 1/2 second after firing is what gets people hooked.
 
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J. Yuma

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just like wishing and doing, seeing and hitting are two different things.

As far as your range practice, you remind me of the great Paul Anderson. He was an Olympic Weightlifting champ. His prowess was such that towards the end of his career his "workout" consisted of hitting a golf ball across a meadow between two squat rack stations, and doing sets of squats at each end. He didn't need much practice to maintain what he had.

I would be glad to get a 4.
thanks for all the information.
 

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I don't shoot handguns that much. If you want to achieve a perfect zero with a rifle, fire no more than 2 shots per sitting with plenty of time for the barrel to return to air temp.
I'm going to say that blasting string after string with a hard recoiling handgun will cause shooter fatigue, flinching, and anticipating recoil.
 

Pál_K

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  • Bullet expansion: A hot barrel can also cause the bullet to expand, which can lead to a looser fit in the barrel. This can result in a decrease in accuracy.


I don't agree with this. If a bullet "expands" in the barrel it's not going to get "looser". Stupid AI.

My bet is that, somewhere, someone meant to write that the bore expands, but AI is not able to catch that mistake. Because AI really has no intelligence. Perfect example of that.

Taking that further, some ballistic lab surely has conducted experiments where the bore diameter is measured as the barrel heats, right?

... I shot really well that fall. 35-38 at every match and I shot every weekend.
...

Achieved S-INT in BB and SB and shot that way for another 20 years.

So to sum it up, YES heat can really affect your shooting. It also depends on the bore and bullet specs you have when the bbl is cool.

Very impressive.
 

J. Yuma

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Today, with the Super Redhawk; the first six rounds and next fifty-four.

I really tried to slow down. I put the gun down between (almost) every shot.
I was relaxed, talking to the range guys, other shooters, texting, reading emails.

One thing I learned, when I put the gun down, I lost count of the rounds a couple of times.
Well into the session, I squeezed off on a spent round, and FLINCHED. (oh, the shame 😔)
That woke me up (I hate using that word, "woke") and made me concentrate harder on not flinching.

I felt the barrel between shots, once it warmed up, it was never as "cool" as the first six rounds.

all rounds: 9.5 grains of WIN 244, a little bark, not much bite. The SBH and the SRH have 10.5, and 9.5 barrels respectively
75 feet, indoors.

Empirical data, but there seems to be a pattern emerging: early shots are best, and flinching becomes part of the problem as fatigue sets in, even with the long barrels helping tame recoil.
 

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J. Yuma

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aw, shucks...😏 thanks.

I must say that the people on this forum are very helpful. There's a wealth of experience that's been freely given.

I happened today to speak with one of the major players (an owner?) at the range I'm a member of, and he said what has become obvious to me.
He said that this is a sport, and a thinking person's game.

My thoughts this moment:
1. Pistol shooting requires physical and mental ability. IMHO, shootin pistols is like baseball pitching, you gotta "lock in" if you wanna throw strikes.
2. Big bore pistol shooting is especially challenging because the guns make you blink.
3. It's way better than golf.
 

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