Help w MkII era 22/45 problems for bulls eye competition

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Retread

Bearcat
Joined
Jan 10, 2006
Messages
50
Location
USA
After 30 years of combat shooting with Smith L-Frames, I'm switching to bulleye work with two Mark II era 22/45s.

My trigger work is really bad and shooters here say to dry fire. I can definitely see the benefits but am concerned how, maybe, 40 or 50 dry fires a week, will affect these gun(s). I've got pain in both hands that would make putting empty cases or snap caps into the chamber difficult. Local shooters say their investigations on the internet about dry firing these Rugers are inconclusive. Does anyone here know for sure, or know who I can ask to find out.


Other steps I'm going to have to take:

To provide some bulk to the thin grip on the 22/45's, I'm wrapping surgical tape over a sloppy, hand made leather grip sleeve and covering these with black electrical tape. I see that some here have gone to a guy in Ohio who instals grommets (?) in older Rugers. But, I'm not looking to fit the gun with grip panels. I'll need to use a larger bullseye grip system. Are there more choices I might look into to find the right grip system for bulls eye shooting?

My long bbl 22/45 is one of those guns whose bolt face near the extractor is dessicated. It wasn't that way when I bought it new in 2005. Two questions about this: I'm not sure, but I think this might be why the slide rarely locks after the last shot (I have 8 mags). Is it likely that I'm damaging the good VQ trigger job when the slide goes forward with no cartridge in the chamber after the last shot? Important stuff. It's a good trigger and I don't want to lose it. In practice, I manage to keep the gun loaded, but in matches I can only load and shoot 5 rounds at a time.

The second part of this is whether Ruger would be willing to do anything about this defect in the gun. It's probably a hundred dollar part - the whole bolt - so I doubt they'd stand by something that expensive. Does anyone have experience with this kind of damage to the front edge of the bolt near the extractor on their Mark .22s?

I really like bullseye shooting, but now that I have the time I don't have much money. A club range is less than 4 miles away and there's no daily fee, so I can go almost anytime and shoot a careful 30 rounds using the remainder of Fed Champion ammo I bought before Oh' came on the scene. I've got a little less than a case, but it should get me through about a year and a half of bulls eye work without worrying about ammo costs.

But I've got to solve some of these problems just to get to the mid level of shooters here. Any ideas based on your experiences are very welcome.
 
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
9,745
Location
Dallas, TX
For dry firing: it is safe to do so, it states this in the manual and has been debated here endlessly. If there is anyone to ask. Call Ruger and ask them.

For your grips. Surgical tape and black electricians tape doesn't seem like a solid grip for bullseye. I understand your budget. Believe me. Otherwise i would have a set of those nice German Rink grips on my Mark ii.

Ultimately, I think a 22/45 won't compete at the same level of Bullseye shooting as the people you shoot with. Could you trade your gun and some cash for something nicer?
 

Bullseye57

Single-Sixer
Joined
Mar 27, 2003
Messages
372
I just posted an explanation about performing this over at Guntalk-online. http://www.guntalk-online.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=38397#38397

<<[I didn't read the whole post earlier, so I'm editing my original response]>>

Sounds as if you have a bolt that looks like this one?

rugerwornbolt.jpg


You may also want to inspect the bolt stop lever for this condition too.

rugerwornboltstop.jpg


It should look more like this one.

m3_boltstop_edge2.JPG


If the bolt stop lever is worn you can dress it up square again with a file. This may solve the problem, depending on how rounded off the bolt corner appears. The cause is likely from using the bolt stop lever as a release mechanism. These pistols do not like that and will wear these surfaces pretty quickly when the bolt is regularly closed via the release tab. The preferred method for closing the bolt is by retracting the bolt by firmly grasping the bolt ears with one hand, and then letting the bolt go home by releasing your grip on the bolt ears. This procedure is also known as "Slingshotting" the bolt.

If you send you pistol back to the factory for repairs, they will restore it back to the original specifications, which means they will replace any aftermarket parts with OEM ones. This practice could effect your trigger work.

There are not many options to increase the girth of the grip frame without modifying the frame for 1911 style grip panels. In the past, some folks have used slip on grips to help, but that can be a pain when it is time for dis-assembly for maintenance and cleaning.

Hope this helps.

R,
Bullseye
 

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Bearcat
Joined
Jan 10, 2006
Messages
50
Location
USA
Both pistols are disassembled at the moment and I'm seeing variations of your photos in each. In the long slabbed bbl'd gun I've been using, the bolt stop lever is considerably worse than the photo. The stainless 5 1/2 inch bolt stop lever is just a bit rounded and maybe isn't a problem. I'll have to test it.

Both bolts have divots in the spot where your arrow points. Won't go further into complicated details here. Dropping to bolts using the bolt stop lever is undoubtedly the cause. I'm switching to the 5 1/2" stainless gun for bulls eye after I have it drilled and tapped for a red dot scope mount. If this gun functions normally after the last shot I won't have to do anything except close the bolt by "sling shotting", at least for awhile. The long bbl'd gun may be switched over to an iron sighted combat practice gun. I'll be able to stop shooting before the last shot, as I do when practicing bulls eye with it now.

If I use the slab side for bulls eye and the bolt slams home after the fifth shot, is this damaging to the action work that's been done?.

I've got more, but I think You need a rest. I'm very, very appreciative. Will post in a few days without expecting the quick attention as you've been able to provide here. Thanks, again
 
Joined
Dec 25, 2007
Messages
10,045
Location
missouri
Wrap the grip area with "Vet wrap". This stuff is great BUT gets dirty quickly unless you keep your hands clean.
Even my arthritic hands can get a firm grip on the pistol. Only sticks to itself so doesn't leave residue on the grip.
 

Retread

Bearcat
Joined
Jan 10, 2006
Messages
50
Location
USA
Bullseye57 said:
I just posted an explanation about performing this over at Guntalk-online. http://www.guntalk-online.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=38397#38397

<<[I didn't read the whole post earlier, so I'm editing my original response]>>

Sounds as if you have a bolt that looks like this one?

rugerwornbolt.jpg


You may also want to inspect the bolt stop lever for this condition too.

rugerwornboltstop.jpg


It should look more like this one.

m3_boltstop_edge2.JPG


If the bolt stop lever is worn you can dress it up square again with a file. This may solve the problem, depending on how rounded off the bolt corner appears. The cause is likely from using the bolt stop lever as a release mechanism. These pistols do not like that and will wear these surfaces pretty quickly when the bolt is regularly closed via the release tab. The preferred method for closing the bolt is by retracting the bolt by firmly grasping the bolt ears with one hand, and then letting the bolt go home by releasing your grip on the bolt ears. This procedure is also known as "Slingshotting" the bolt.

If you send you pistol back to the factory for repairs, they will restore it back to the original specifications, which means they will replace any aftermarket parts with OEM ones. This practice could effect your trigger work.

There are not many options to increase the girth of the grip frame without modifying the frame for 1911 style grip panels. In the past, some folks have used slip on grips to help, but that can be a pain when it is time for dis-assembly for maintenance and cleaning.

Hope this helps.

R,
Bullseye


It helps a lot.

I've ordered a new bolt stop assembly which will solve the problem of the bolt staying open after the last shot in a magazine. And I'll "slingshot" to close the bolt from now on.

Your 1st photograph of the bolt face might help in understanding another problem with my long bbl'd slab sided gun. The photo clearly shows that there is a rim along the bolt face under the extractor. It's meant to help stabilize .22 cartridge rim. On my gun, this rim has broken away along the full width of the extractor and for a short distance above the extractor. What effect does this have on safety or accuracy?

I'm asking about safety - though I don't think it's necessarily an issue, because while talking with Ruger Customer Service today, they suggested I send the bolt to them and they'd evaluate it - considering either to replace it, repair it, or do nothing. The customer service rep said that Ruger will only look at it from a safety point of view.

Has anyone faced this same issue with Mark series bolt faces. How was it resolved? Is this a flaw in the bolt or does this occur from shooting in a number of the Mark .22s?

And, importantly to me, does this effect the accuracy of the gun?


(If I send the bolt in, I'll be sure to strip it of the Exact Edge Extractor, and other parts. If I have to send it with these parts, I'll send it in with the original extractor and parts. Thanks for that head's up).
 

Bullseye57

Single-Sixer
Joined
Mar 27, 2003
Messages
372
Retread said:
Your 1st photograph of the bolt face might help in understanding another problem with my long bbl'd slab sided gun. The photo clearly shows that there is a rim along the bolt face under the extractor. It's meant to help stabilize .22 cartridge rim. On my gun, this rim has broken away along the full width of the extractor and for a short distance above the extractor. What effect does this have on safety or accuracy?

I'm asking about safety - though I don't think it's necessarily an issue, because while talking with Ruger Customer Service today, they suggested I send the bolt to them and they'd evaluate it - considering either to replace it, repair it, or do nothing. The customer service rep said that Ruger will only look at it from a safety point of view.

Has anyone faced this same issue with Mark series bolt faces. How was it resolved? Is this a flaw in the bolt or does this occur from shooting in a number of the Mark .22s?

And, importantly to me, does this effect the accuracy of the gun?

(If I send the bolt in, I'll be sure to strip it of the Exact Edge Extractor, and other parts. If I have to send it with these parts, I'll send it in with the original extractor and parts. Thanks for that head's up).

The chipped out piece shouldn't effect safety. If you notice the pictured bolt is a Mark III version, which has a section cut out of it, on the opposite side of the bolt from the extractor claw, for the LCI. That part of the bolt also has the edge missing. I would inspect a few fired cases to see if there's any signs of bulging in the rim where the extractor claw sits. No bulging means "No problem". As far as accuracy concerns, your cartridge is fully seated when fired and unless the chipped area is causing bullet deformation upon seating in the chamber, it shouldn't have any impact on accuracy. Your choice if you wish to send it in to Ruger for evaluation. If you do, replacing any aftermarket parts with factory ones is a good idea, as they will replace them upon inspection with new factory originals.

R,
Bullseye
 

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