HELP: Ruger #1 vs standard

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hoser

Bearcat
Joined
Feb 7, 2008
Messages
75
Location
CA
Any advantages or disadvantages of the full stock International #1?

Also, do #1's in general benefit from a medium weight match barrel?
 

Silent Sam

Blackhawk
Joined
Feb 26, 2006
Messages
728
Other than being one of the most elegant versions of one of the most beautiful rifles ever mass produced, I can't think of any. Having said that, #1s are not for everyone. If you are expecting something that the rifle is not you might be disappointed and I am not saying that to deter you in any way. The only reason I say that is your second question which I admit to not understanding. What is your intended use?
 

roofinspector

Single-Sixer
Joined
Jan 20, 2009
Messages
282
I think that the International is basically the No.1A with the speciality stock, a light barrel, short and compact. Some like the full length wood, some don't, kinda an eye of the beholder type of thing. Somewhat chunky in weight for such a short rifle.

I think a poor barrel is a poor barrel, regardless of diameter/weight/length. Likewise, a good barrel is a good barrel, regardless of physical characteristics of weight, diameter, etc. Properly excuted, a barrelled action in a cradle will tend to show how the barrel will shoot on its own. Mann cradles have been used a long time for sorting barrels for match teams.

I do think that today's aftermarket barrels by the big makers are the top of the line, finely machined and destressed; usually very smooth inside and easy to clean properly broken in. Just a joy to own in my own opinion.

I believe that the more weight/size you have in a barrel the less the barrel is effected by outside sources, bedding, scope mount stresses, your hold, rest placements etc. However one has to fit the type of barrel to the style of use intended. The lighter barrel on average will be more sensitive to external pressures than a heavier one; but one still has to be able to carry it one might say. Obiviously a lot of parameters in what makes an accurate barrel and the influences it goes under in a rifle frame.

If a barrel is placed in a lathe, it is surprising how much deflection a barrel can move with just a lightest of touch; perhaps where the harmonics characteristics come into play in actual shooting. Some superlight barrels can be a trial to get to shoot, depends on your expectations of accuracy.
 

hoser

Bearcat
Joined
Feb 7, 2008
Messages
75
Location
CA
This would be for general hunting and wondered about accuracy of these, that's all.
 
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Messages
5,084
Location
Southwest Washington
I have a VERY modest collection of #1's and 3's. All of them shoot at least MOA+ 1/2". Most are sub MOA, including my RSI 7x57. While bolt guns are inherently more accurate, mine are accurate enough for me. My 2cents.

Dave
 

hoser

Bearcat
Joined
Feb 7, 2008
Messages
75
Location
CA
Cool, I'm eyeballing a 30-06 or 300wm or 7mm. Not sure yet but probably 30-06 for general all-around, one rifle shootin'!
 

model1

Bearcat
Joined
Mar 16, 2010
Messages
6
Heliman":144ler1p said:
I have a VERY modest collection of #1's and 3's. All of them shoot at least MOA+ 1/2". Most are sub MOA, including my RSI 7x57. While bolt guns are inherently more accurate, mine are accurate enough for me. My 2cents.

Dave

Hey Heliman,
I'm new here but I'll jump right in. What makes a bolt inherently more accurate than a single shot? I know autos and pumps don't lock up as tightly as a bolt but I don't see where a falling block single wouldn't be at least as good as a bolt, if not better.
 
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Messages
5,084
Location
Southwest Washington
model1":2f9yxsf3 said:
Heliman":2f9yxsf3 said:
I have a VERY modest collection of #1's and 3's. All of them shoot at least MOA+ 1/2". Most are sub MOA, including my RSI 7x57. While bolt guns are inherently more accurate, mine are accurate enough for me. My 2cents.

Dave

Hey Heliman,
I'm new here but I'll jump right in. What makes a bolt inherently more accurate than a single shot? I know autos and pumps don't lock up as tightly as a bolt but I don't see where a falling block single wouldn't be at least as good as a bolt, if not better.

My comments are based on what I have learned here from much more knowledgeable folks than me and personal experience.

I am sure others here will chime in with their opinions and logical explanantions. I have had numerous bolt action rifles that will clover leaf groups at 100 yds., but only one #1 that will do the same. This is my experience.
 

picketpin

Buckeye
Joined
Jun 29, 2006
Messages
1,544
Location
Owyhee County, ID, USA
It's easiest to think of it in these terms. When you cam the bolt closed on a bolt action rifle, you are engaging the bolt lugs in the recesses in the barrel and as you do so you are drawing the action-barrel together tighter. So it is more like one piece/more rigid.

In a falling block rifle you are actually shoving the breach block up between the reciever and the barrel. So in effect you are forcing them apart. It's a matter of the mechanics and it simply can not be as riigid as a bolt action. It's the nature of the beast.

Add to that the two piece stock and the forearm hanger and.................

If #1s or any other single shot other than single shot bolt guns were more accurate, the big boys in bench rest would be using them to set world records. They aren't.

That being said I own a few #1s and have hunted with them primarily for the last 30 years or so. NOTHING has ever gotten away that could be blamed on the rifle.

A general adage. The very best #1 will shoot as well as most bolt guns. The very best bolt guns will always outshoot even the best #1s.

Back to your question regarding Manlicher stocked or International #1s.
I don't own any. I just don't shoot them well, too light and too short and they don't "hang" well for me. There are also some other issues with ALL full stocked rifles that has to do with the slim full length forearm and warping and touching the barrel. Agian, that being said nearly all shoot minute of deer with no problem.

You mentoned the the 300 WM. It is not nor has it ever been available in the RSI. The 30-06 has a lot going for it but in #1 circles the RSI in 7x57 is a definite customer favorite. ;-)

Ross
 
A

Anonymous

Don't have a #1 but have owned several over the years in just about all configurations except the international. I do however have a 77rsi and I would pretty much agree with all Picketpin said. I don't care for the #1 rsi as when handling it just feels a little too stubby for me. I know the barrel is the same length as my 77 but the shorter action makes the overall length about 2-3" shorter and my 77 is as short as I would want. I really believe the #1 rsi would have been better served if they had just put a full length forearm on the #1A.. Having said all this the rsi series of rifles make great little carbines. They are very portable and come in a variety of calibers. This is where I really agree with Picketpin : they are carbines and while handy in the deer blind etc. I think they are at best used out to about 200 yds maybe 250 in a pinch. If you plan to shoot longer distances than that then get yourself a more conventional rifle or maybe a beanfield rifle. Just my .02
 

model1

Bearcat
Joined
Mar 16, 2010
Messages
6
picketpin":278wcitl said:
It's easiest to think of it in these terms. When you cam the bolt closed on a bolt action rifle, you are engaging the bolt lugs in the recesses in the barrel and as you do so you are drawing the action-barrel together tighter. So it is more like one piece/more rigid.

In a falling block rifle you are actually shoving the breach block up between the reciever and the barrel. So in effect you are forcing them apart. It's a matter of the mechanics and it simply can not be as riigid as a bolt action. It's the nature of the beast.

Add to that the two piece stock and the forearm hanger and.................

If #1s or any other single shot other than single shot bolt guns were more accurate, the big boys in bench rest would be using them to set world records. They aren't.

That being said I own a few #1s and have hunted with them primarily for the last 30 years or so. NOTHING has ever gotten away that could be blamed on the rifle.

A general adage. The very best #1 will shoot as well as most bolt guns. The very best bolt guns will always outshoot even the best #1s.
Ross

Good explaination and good point about the competition shooting. Thanks.
 

Ruger # 1

Bearcat
Joined
Sep 4, 2004
Messages
16
Location
At the Range
picketpin":3pslb35x said:
It's easiest to think of it in these terms. When you cam the bolt closed on a bolt action rifle, you are engaging the bolt lugs in the recesses in the barrel and as you do so you are drawing the action-barrel together tighter. So it is more like one piece/more rigid.

Interesting,
I did not know that when you close the bolt on a bolt action that the bolt lugs engaged a recess in the barrel and that you were drawing the action and barrel together and the lock up was tighter.

In fact I didn't know that a bolt action barrel had recesses for the bolt, I was under the impression that the bolt lugs locked into the front of the action, and in turn would act not much different than a # 1 falling block, guess we learn something new every day.
Ruger # 1 Guy.
 

picketpin

Buckeye
Joined
Jun 29, 2006
Messages
1,544
Location
Owyhee County, ID, USA
Sorry, I misspoke. The bolt lugs engage the reciever and draw the reciever tight to the bolt/lugs. As the barrel is screwed into the action this tends to draw the entire bolt/action/barrel into a more cohesive/tighter unit.

#1 when you operate the lever you are shoving the bolt block up throught the action , the forward portion of which has the barrel screwed into it. There is simply no way this makes things tighter.

Read Ottsson book on bolt action rifles Vol I and II. It also explains why front locking bolt guns are more rigid than rear locking bolt guns.

Of course you could have simply stated the correction with out being snarky about it it. Must have been too hard to explain or state the correction.

Bottom line, #1s are not as accurate as the very best bolt guns for a variety of reasons. I own some very accurate #1s. None shoot as well, defined as group size, as many of my very best/accurate bolt guns, period. Granted we are talking a few thousandths but it's there

Ross
 

model1

Bearcat
Joined
Mar 16, 2010
Messages
6
picketpin":1g2wkdmd said:
Of course you could have simply stated the correction with out being snarky about it it. Must have been too hard to explain or state the correction.Ross

Picketpin,
I didn't pick up on any saracsm there, if there was, well, whatever. I just appreciate the responses. I truely am learing some stuff here so it's all good for me.
 

tss106

Single-Sixer
Joined
Oct 20, 2006
Messages
135
Location
Texas
Itchy":2792pd05 said:
I don't care for the #1 rsi as when handling it just feels a little too stubby for me. I know the barrel is the same length as my 77 but the shorter action makes the overall length about 2-3" shorter and my 77 is as short as I would want.


Both my #1 RSI's have 20" barrels....., your M77 has the stubby 18.5" barrel. :p
 

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