Hand Loads for Ruger 77/357

[Gp100puncher]

After sitting in the safe for over a year, I brought out my 77/357 with the intention of trying to work up a load which would get better accuracy from this carbine. (I have struggled getting much better than 1.0-2.0 inch groups (with a flyer or two in most groups) at 50 yds from the bench. I have done all the usual upgrades--bedding, pillaring, stiffening the fore stock, trigger/springs, shims! Some forum participants claim tack driver accuracy from this gun; others note similar experience to mine suggesting that the handgun round will be less accurate by nature than a true rifle round!

While I have previously had the best luck with 180 gn Hornady XTPs powered by fairly hot loads of H-110, the other day I ran 158 gn XTPs and Speer GDHCs with 16 gn and 15.3 gn H-110 loads respectively (from Hodgdon load data; CCI 550 magnum primers). Accuracy was about the same as above in groups I fired as well as those shot by two other very experienced bench shooters.

I ran a dry patch through the barrel after every five rounds and was a bit surprised to see how dirty black they were. Thinking about it later, even though H-110 isn't the cleanest powder, I wonder if these near-maximum loads were not burning completely. I don't recall the black residue being gritty. Any thoughts from the expert reloaders?

 

[kmoore]

Not really expert advice and you may have through about this. If it were me and I had the same conclusions. I would load about 10-15 rounds at the low/min charge and repeat the cleaning at the same time do the best to be able to compare group size. I am loading IMR 4227, the same 158 gr bullet out of a 1892 Rossi made in the 70s a tang peep rear sight. . No clear bench results, At 50 yds I standing I can hit clay birds most of the time, kneeling almost all the time. The birds are placed in a berm not tossed of course. I wondered if the 180's might be better, but it's not a hunting rifle, just a fun lever plinker. So, likely would not change the bullets for a better or worse group. I keep the 357 125gr JHP, 38 spl and lead bullets for handguns.

 

[contender]

Welcome to the Forum!

There are a lot of variables when it comes to figuring out a handload for any firearm.

Have you contacted Ruger to get the actual rifling twist? SOMETIMES that can be a factor,, as many loads in .357 are for handguns,, while a rifle may be very different.

H110 isn't known for being a powder that allows for much variation in loads. I'd switch powders,, opting for one better suited to a longer (slower) burn rate, that is a proven adjustable powder. I use a lot of 4227 in my handguns,, and it's quite versatile. My Marlin .357 rifle seems to enjoy my handgun loads in it quite well.
Just a few thoughts here.

 

[AJGUNNER]

A friend has been playing with Lil gun and slowly working up the charge. He has gone beyond what it comfortable shooting in a handgun, but is still deemed OK in a rifle. He is loading for a Marlin lever gun and has these loads clearly marked "Rifle Only" on the data card inside the box.

 

[Rockrat75]

Try some MP-300. Works great in my Marlin and gives very good velocities

 

[RustyW]

No experience with the bolt action but I have a sp101, gp100 and marlin 1884. All 3 shoot 125 jhp over 16.5gr of 2400 better than anything I've tried. #9, h110, blue dot... Bullet weight/length will play a part both in accuracy and complete burn. 2400 isn't the cleanest powder but isn't bad when you find it's sweet spot, usually on the upper end pressure wise.
Xtp's are my favorite bullet, price mainly, but Montana gold has given good results too.

 

[Gp100puncher]

Thanks for all your thoughts!
I have some Lil Gun on order already--will do some comparisons with it, then maybe get some 4227 into the the game!

 

[vlavalle]

Do any of you who do your own reloads test the ammo for ballistics? In other words, do you know the fps or the ME of your ammo? I ask this because if you do, I have a very elaborate ballistics file that has over 3,500 entries that covers 35 handgun calibers and 25 rifle ones that you may find interesting. Each entry shows the ammo's ballistics, as well as a link as to where to buy it online (already manufactured ammo). For the .357 Mag there are over 100 different unique loads, with varying projectile weights, speeds, and muzzle energy (ME). If you are interested, just contact me. The file format I release this in is a very large PDF file.

I own a Ruger .357 Mag 6" GP100 and a 6 1/2" Ruger .357 Mag Blackhawk, so .357 Mag and .38 Spec are my main calibers that I shoot. Long ago, when my Blackhawk was new, I use to do my own reloads, but I never tested any of it for its speed. So, I was not able to compare my reloads with already manufactured ammo. So, if you do chronograph your own ammo, you may want to see how it stacks up with other ammo. Just contact me and I will send you this PDF file. This file is too big for smart phones, so you need a large tablet or a computer with a decent size screen.

 

[buckaroo]

Yo vlavalle, I roll 12 gauge and it's hard to get accurate ballistics, I go strictly by feel. Metallic cartridge reloading is whole different ball game and if you have a chronograph easy peasy to get data, of course provided you can afford one. I bet if we tested my loads I would at lease be were I want to be, I only roll because I can tailor the load I want and the recoil.

p.s don't take this the wrong way, the #1 rule in reloading is to never go by anyone else's data especially on the internet.

 

[Arizonagunsmith]

You might be limited to stabilizing that rifle bulled because of the twist in the barrel. Mine shoots 158 grain jacketed soft point bullets within an 1" group. I use the same loading in my Winchester 1873 and Marlin 1894 as I do in my revolvers. Just my humble dogmatic opinion.

 

[contender]

I've owned a chronograph for over 20 years now. I've kept good records,, and I also have tested many of my loads in various mediums. But,, the best showing is an accurate bullet, and when properly placed in an animal, it does the job I've asked of it.
Field ballistics can vary over controlled lab tests.

When loading ammo, I look for a SAFE load first.
Next,, I look for an accurate load.
And my choices of bullets are based upon the job I'm wanting it to do.
Once I find a safe & accurate load,, I then run it across the chrono. After that,, depending upon it's purpose, I may try it in a test medium for penetration, & how it deforms etc.

 

[kean57]

I have owned a 77/357 for about 5 years now. IMHO, 1-2" groups, depending on the load, are what you can expect fron any pistol- caliber carbine/rifle. My best load for my gun uses a 158 gr. SP/HP loaded over 16 gr. of H110; this load averages 1740 fps with an SD of 6 in my rifle. It consistently averages 1" groups at 50 yards. If you need better accuracy than this, you need to look at a true rifle caliber. The stubby, poor ballistic coefficient bullets used in a .357 Magnum will never equal the long-for-caliber, high ballistic coefficient bullets designed for rifle calibers. That said, this is still one of the most fun rifles that I own. If I want to hit the 12" steel plate at 1,000 yards, I use my Masterpiece Arms BA in 6.5 Creedmoor. Once I've doped the wind correctly, it can hit the steel with every trigger pull.

 

[buckaroo]

After that,, depending upon it's purpose, I may try it in a test medium for penetration, & how it deforms etc.

Here's a sample of my test medium. Pizza pan, covered with artist clay with 1/2 inch jute over that. I've got a new one I'll be testing out shortly using cutting board plastic instead of the pizza pan. In this particular example you will note that paver crack before it hits the ground. That's at 30 feet with a nice spread. That load was 12 pellet steel I've since developed a new one using only 10 pellet steel.



One of the key factors when loading steel buckshot over steel bird-shot no shotgun barrel has ever been design to shoot over #3 steel bird-shot. It's taken months of testing to develop a load that won't scar my barrel. (and blow my gun up along with me )

My new test bed is a single shot RIA with a chrome lined barrel, fantastic test platform.

 

[kean57]

After sitting in the safe for over a year, I brought out my 77/357 with the intention of trying to work up a load which would get better accuracy from this carbine. (I have struggled getting much better than 1.0-2.0 inch groups (with a flyer or two in most groups) at 50 yds from the bench. I have done all the usual upgrades--bedding, pillaring, stiffening the fore stock, trigger/springs, shims! Some forum participants claim tack driver accuracy from this gun; others note similar experience to mine suggesting that the handgun round will be less accurate by nature than a true rifle round!

While I have previously had the best luck with 180 gn Hornady XTPs powered by fairly hot loads of H-110, the other day I ran 158 gn XTPs and Speer GDHCs with 16 gn and 15.3 gn H-110 loads respectively (from Hodgdon load data; CCI 550 magnum primers). Accuracy was about the same as above in groups I fired as well as those shot by two other very experienced bench shooters.

I ran a dry patch through the barrel after every five rounds and was a bit surprised to see how dirty black they were. Thinking about it later, even though H-110 isn't the cleanest powder, I wonder if these near-maximum loads were not burning completely. I don't recall the black residue being gritty. Any thoughts from the expert reloaders?

My pet load for my 77/357, using a 158 gr. JSP/JSP over 16 gr. of H110, leaves the muzzle at 1740 fps for a muzzle energy of 1062 fpe.

 

[kean57]

After sitting in the safe for over a year, I brought out my 77/357 with the intention of trying to work up a load which would get better accuracy from this carbine. (I have struggled getting much better than 1.0-2.0 inch groups (with a flyer or two in most groups) at 50 yds from the bench. I have done all the usual upgrades--bedding, pillaring, stiffening the fore stock, trigger/springs, shims! Some forum participants claim tack driver accuracy from this gun; others note similar experience to mine suggesting that the handgun round will be less accurate by nature than a true rifle round!

While I have previously had the best luck with 180 gn Hornady XTPs powered by fairly hot loads of H-110, the other day I ran 158 gn XTPs and Speer GDHCs with 16 gn and 15.3 gn H-110 loads respectively (from Hodgdon load data; CCI 550 magnum primers). Accuracy was about the same as above in groups I fired as well as those shot by two other very experienced bench shooters.

I ran a dry patch through the barrel after every five rounds and was a bit surprised to see how dirty black they were. Thinking about it later, even though H-110 isn't the cleanest powder, I wonder if these near-maximum loads were not burning completely. I don't recall the black residue being gritty. Any thoughts from the expert reloaders?

Loads with H110, especially, need a heavy crimp; if you're not using a heavy enough crimp, you will never get a complete burn. I use a heavy crimp with my loads, and after shooting 50 rounds through the barrel, it is almost clean.

 

[Gp100puncher]

Do any of you who do your own reloads test the ammo for ballistics? In other words, do you know the fps or the ME of your ammo? I ask this because if you do, I have a very elaborate ballistics file that has over 3,500 entries that covers 35 handgun calibers and 25 rifle ones that you may find interesting. Each entry shows the ammo's ballistics, as well as a link as to where to buy it online (already manufactured ammo). For the .357 Mag there are over 100 different unique loads, with varying projectile weights, speeds, and muzzle energy (ME). If you are interested, just contact me. The file format I release this in is a very large PDF file.

I own a Ruger .357 Mag 6" GP100 and a 6 1/2" Ruger .357 Mag Blackhawk, so .357 Mag and .38 Spec are my main calibers that I shoot. Long ago, when my Blackhawk was new, I use to do my own reloads, but I never tested any of it for its speed. So, I was not able to compare my reloads with already manufactured ammo. So, if you do chronograph your own ammo, you may want to see how it stacks up with other ammo. Just contact me and I will send you this PDF file. This file is too big for smart phones, so you need a large tablet or a computer with a decent size screen.

Thanks Vlavalle!

I don't currently have a chronie, but several guys at my range do. I will try to hook up with them and get some date. I would appreciate getting the pdf with ballistic data so that I can better dial in my loads and compare them to others once I get some chronograph data. I didn't see a way to PM you, so if you would be kind enough to send the pdf to [email protected], I would appreciate it! Thanks!

Kean57: I also appreciate your comment on using a heavy crimp. To date, I have just crimped enough to insure that the bullet won't move in the casing during recoil etc.

 

[JCK]

My best load in the 77/357 was either a Remington 158gr FN Spt or a Hornady 158gr XTP over 17.8gr of Lil'Gun. It gave 2,000fps and 1.5" 5-shot groups at 100yds. 16.0gr of H110 was right behind it.

 

[Wvfarrier]

I MUCH prefer Lil Gun for 357 mag rifle loads. I find I get better accuracy and better velocities with it compared to H110. On the flip side, Lil.Gun tends to heat up the barrel faster than H110. I also like Longshot but its sooo much louder than the other two.

 

[gramps]

I have an Blackhawk and an SP-101, that I reload for. My go to is 158 gr lswc over 13.5 grs 2400. It is accurate and not an extreme load. Good luck!
gramps

 

[unodemo]

H110, 4227, and LG in that order with mag primers are my go to in the Blackhawk. I suggest sorting cases by headstamp. I see velocity differences and some cases that stress more than others. It's a high pressure hand cannon so give it some respect. I got mine up to ~1300fps with a 158gr XTP and H110/WSPM before saying that's enough for me.