GP100, something old, something new and what we could expect?

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Onty

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On another forum, in thread about possibility of making GP100 in 41 magnum, forum member CraigC posted:

"I totally forgot that the 10mm version of the GP already has a larger barrel shank. 11/16" compared to 5/8" on the .357 and .44Special. Which is a hair bigger than the .670" of the N-frame. The Redhawk, by contrast is 3/4", so 1/16th bigger.

Also worthy of note that the standard GP is a bit bigger than the L-frame at 5/8" (.625") compared to .562".

All these measurements are at the threads, not the forcing cone."

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/lipsey-ruger…ask-for-a-gp100-in-41-magnum.898006/page-5

Well, this opens opportunity not just for 41 caliber, but also for 44 Magnum, 45 Colt and 45 ACP.

FYI, in 2017 I wrote in thread "Future GP100 offerings?":

"GP100 in some sort of rimmed 10 mm Magnum (401 Powermag!?), 200 grains at 1400 fps from 6" barrel. However, cylinder should be done the same way as 45 Colt/45ACP Redhawk, so it could shoot rimmed 10 mm Magnum, and 10 mm Magnum (rimless)/10mm Auto/40S&W with clips. Can't imagine more versatile revolver. The only thing I would suggest on it is same steels for cylinder and barrel they use for 454 revolvers. I wouldn't mind paying few hundreds more for a such revolver."



I bet that noted GP100 in 10 Magnum rimmed, and cylinder cut for 10 mm rimless with clips, will go like hot cake.

Presently, I have 3 revolvers in 44 Magnum: SBH 5.5" SS converted to Bisley, blue Bisley 7.5", and Redhawk 7.5" SS. I am not handgun hunter, but have revolvers as a backup during wild boar hunt. However, I found that Redhawk is just too big and too heavy, I rarely take it even on shooting range, so it's for sale now. In that respect, GP100 6", up to 48 oz, in caliber larger than 357, makes sense.
 

hittman

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I’m a 41 Magnum fan and would sure look at a 41 GP if they bring one to market.

Of course things like finish and barrel length and round capacity will be a determining factor. Them being expensive is a “given”. LOL
 

JStacy

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GP100 Match Champion in 10mm with clips is available, but expensive. Gun Blast took a GP100 MC and rechambered the gun to 10MM Mag and got some impressive velocities. There are GP100, not match champion version, in 10MM but none that are 6" S&W had a 6" Mod 610 , not sure if they still make them in that barrel length. I like the 10 I have a GP100 in MC and a S&W 610 5" and a Rock Island Tac II in 10 , good caliber!
 

Onty

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I’m a 41 Magnum fan and would sure look at a 41 GP if they bring one to market.

Of course things like finish and barrel length and round capacity will be a determining factor. Them being expensive is a “given”. LOL
I am BIG 41 Magnum fan, especially in Bisley, but if Ruger comes up with GP100 chambered in 10 mm "Universal", 6", as I described in first post, it will be my "MUST HAVE" revolver.
 

Onty

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GP100 Match Champion in 10mm with clips is available, but expensive. Gun Blast took a GP100 MC and rechambered the gun to 10MM Mag and got some impressive velocities. There are GP100, not match champion version, in 10MM but none that are 6" S&W had a 6" Mod 610 , not sure if they still make them in that barrel length. I like the 10 I have a GP100 in MC and a S&W 610 5" and a Rock Island Tac II in 10 , good caliber!
Thanks for tip. Here is the article:
 

Redhawk41

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I would love to see the GP chambered in .41 Mag and it does seem practical/doable. At the same time, for some odd reason there has been so much obsession lately in different forums with people wanting one chambered in .44 Mag and I'm not quite sure why.
While Ruger doesn't officially endorse shooting over-SAAMI-spec ammo in their guns (for obvious reasons), they have their long-standing reputation of overbuilding their guns which allows folks to load ammo that will shake loose many S&W (and other) guns. You just KNOW that while they don't approve of such practices publicly, privately they must consider these "Ruger-only" loads a badge of honor--and they have a right to do so. They do make the GP in .44 Special, but my theory is that the .44 Mag simply pushes the envelope too far for GP frame and/or cylinder integrity. While normal .44 Mag loads MAY be perfectly safe in such a gun you just know there would be many reloaders who think it's a Redhawk and will load Redhawk-safe ammo for it with potentially catastrophic results. It's very likely there would be many shot-loose GP-100's (or even destroyed cylinders, considering the resulting thin chamber walls) and the next thing you know guys will be all over the Internet griping how "Ruger just doesn't make guns like they used to!".
I honestly don't think Ruger executives are willing to risk that reputation and I think they're being smart. If you want a .44 Mag buy a Redhawk or Super Redhawk.
 

JStacy

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I think that the GP100 could stand 44 mag loads because the Taurus Tracker, Gun Blast review article on them also, used some STOUT loads in the Tracker and it is smaller dimensionally that the GP100.S&W made a 686 44 mag and like mentioned previously the GP is larger than the 686 by a small amount. I shoot moderate loads in my 44 mag Tracker and 215 grain @1100 would be easy to duplicate in the 44 spl GP with hand loads. I have a 41 Mag tracker and a GP is definitely larger so it would be doable for Ruger to make a GP in 41 Mag . Just the fact the 41 is not a high volume item is why Ruger has not come out with a five shot unfluted cylinder 41 GP. Would be a great gun , the tracker 41 is !
 

Onty

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I think that the GP100 could stand 44 mag loads because the Taurus Tracker, Gun Blast review article on them also, used some STOUT loads in the Tracker and it is smaller dimensionally that the GP100.S&W made a 686 44 mag and like mentioned previously the GP is larger than the 686 by a small amount. I shoot moderate loads in my 44 mag Tracker and 215 grain @1100 would be easy to duplicate in the 44 spl GP with hand loads. I have a 41 Mag tracker and a GP is definitely larger so it would be doable for Ruger to make a GP in 41 Mag . Just the fact the 41 is not a high volume item is why Ruger has not come out with a five shot unfluted cylinder 41 GP. Would be a great gun , the tracker 41 is !
For silhouette shooters and handgun hunters, who are shooting constantly full power loads (hunters frequently with heavy bullets), Redhawk an Super Redhawk are the way to go. Can't argue with that.

However, for everything else, I agree with you. 44 magnum in GP 100 makes sense for those who would carry it a lot, and shoot little (talking about full power loads), like hikers and rifle hunters (as a backup gun). In reality, almost all rounds fired in most 44 Magnum revolvers are just hotter 44 Special. As a matter of fact, in all those years, I never assembled top loads for 44 magnum, nor for 357 and 41. I have Redhawk at least 25 years, and I can tell you that I fired no more than dozen times factory full power loads, just to show to friends how it feels to shoot real 44 Magnum.
 
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Bad Barlow

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There's comfort in having a Redhawk ,and knowing that it will last several lifetimes if shot with what I call "- p" loads. Mine are hotter than specials, but not "magnum".
But believe me, they still have significant penetration,a clang steel loudly!
 

contender

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"
For silhouette shooters and handgun hunters, who are shooting constantly full power loads (hunters frequently with heavy bullets), Redhawk an Super Redhawk are the way to go. Can't argue with that.
However, for everything else, I agree with you. 44 magnum in GP 100 makes sense for those who would carry it a lot, and shoot little (talking about full power loads), like hikers and rifle hunters (as a backup gun). In reality, almost all rounds fired in most 44 Magnum revolvers are just hotter 44 Special. As a matter of fact, in all those years, I never assembled top loads for 44 magnum, nor for 357 and 41. I have Redhawk at least 25 years, and I can tell you that I fired no more than dozen times factory full power loads, just to show to friends how it feels to shoot real 44 Magnum."

This post made me think a bit.

I can sum it up in a simple term.

"Liability."

You are a "carry a lot, shoot a little" type. Fine, but we are all just temporary custodians of our firearms. Consider the fact that someday, a person who shoots a lot,, AND wants a light package buys your gun. Then proceeds to load a lot of "rocks & dynamite" loads.
The gun is fine for a while, then suddenly,, it detonates, injuring someone or gosh forbid, killing someone. Families sue. Lawyers make the money & companies pay huge amounts of money because a product failed. And with just a few large lawsuits,, a company can be shut down.
Bill Ruger was smart enough to know these facts,, and built his company of the strength of his guns. He didn't want lawsuits.
Remember what he did with the .357 Maximum? When a few folks started loading light bullets, and using fast burning powders,, they got "top strap erosion" and the few gun writers & customers complained. Bill stopped production.
Using a product outside what it was designed for can cause issues.

Bill Ruger chose to not let that happen. And the company has pretty much followed that direction. Remember,, they have a slogan; "Rugger, Reliable Ruger Firearms."

If a person wants a gun to do things other than what they are designed AND TESTED for,,, then that's what custom gunsmiths are for.

I fully understand how many people want "something different." And especially the fact that a lot of people want stuff that is often hard to get.
A lot of people want a gun for CCW,, that's light to carry & also in a caliber that has power, WITHOUT much recoil. Physics can not be overcome. You have to have some give & take.
I have a friend who has bought & sold several firearms over the years. He keeps looking for a bear hunting gun, that's lightweight, and very powerful. He's bought several,, but sells them because of one reason or another. He bought one of those very first titanium Remington rifles. It kicked like a mule. He had the barrel shortened, and added a muzzle brake. Still wasn't what he wanted. He bought a Ruger Super Redhawk in .480. I now own that one.

The size package of a gun such as the GP-100 can be a great size,, for many purposes. Yet, I've heard people say they "wish it wasn't so heavy."
And as for making a gun into a multi-caliber platform. Remember,,, the majority of people out there are not handloaders,, or into odd calibers such as .41 Special, or .10mm rimmed. If it's not a readily available factory offering that Bubba can go to the local hardware store & buy ammo for,, it's not gonna sell.
And remember,, Ruger is in the business to make money,, the guns are the route to that.
I own a GP-100 MC & shoot it a lot.
I see no reason top own it in any other .40 or .41 cal platform.
 

Thel

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I think the .44 mag is doable. If there is a market big enough to support a larger caliber it would be the .44 mag crowd followed by the .45 Colt crowd but the latter is not readily doable in the GP. As noted the GP is larger in dimensions than the Taurus. The S&W 69 does have bit wider frame to accommodate their larger barrel shank. S&W does not recommend a steady diet of the various boutique loads available in .44 mag such as 340 grainers. I would think the shorter cylinder on the GP could also prevent using those. Ruger makes the LCR in .357 mag and similarly one so inclined I guess could load really hot 180-200 gr loads in it and it would not probably last too long but Ruger still offers it. As another noted, there is a market for a carried frequently shot little .44 mag to take when hunting with a long gun or out on a hike or ???? Gemini offers a custom GP made to take really hot .44 loads with a larger barrel shank as on the 10mm ones. When Dave Clements was offering his .44 Special conversions of the GP100 he stated they would take 250 gr loads at 1250 fps!
 

Onty

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I think the .44 mag is doable. If there is a market big enough to support a larger caliber it would be the .44 mag crowd followed by the .45 Colt crowd but the latter is not readily doable in the GP. As noted the GP is larger in dimensions than the Taurus. The S&W 69 does have bit wider frame to accommodate their larger barrel shank. S&W does not recommend a steady diet of the various boutique loads available in .44 mag such as 340 grainers. I would think the shorter cylinder on the GP could also prevent using those. Ruger makes the LCR in .357 mag and similarly one so inclined I guess could load really hot 180-200 gr loads in it and it would not probably last too long but Ruger still offers it. As another noted, there is a market for a carried frequently shot little .44 mag to take when hunting with a long gun or out on a hike or ???? Gemini offers a custom GP made to take really hot .44 loads with a larger barrel shank as on the 10mm ones. When Dave Clements was offering his .44 Special conversions of the GP100 he stated they would take 250 gr loads at 1250 fps!
I would be surprised if GP100 is offered in any caliber without Ruger engineers doing their homework. Looking at their track record, from Security Six and Speed Six, until now, they knew what they are doing. If nothing else, I am not aware of any shooter that could shoot more than Ruger revolvers could take, talking about loads within SAAMI specifications. Yeah, there is always possibility that somebody will put top loads of the powder behind 44-340 grainer, even within SAAMI spec for pressure, and try to shot from eventual GP100 in 44 magnum, but I bet that such shooter will find very soon that he will wreck his hand much sooner than revolver. I was shooting half scale silhouette (at 100m), and used 429421 at something like 1100-1200 fps (friend loaded, I am relaying on his estimate) from Redhawk 7.5". I was OK until 50-60 rounds in a single day, but after that I felt considerable tingling in my hands. 100 rounds was maximum I did just ones, never tried same again. Also, I tried noted load from Flattop. After few dozens I was done. That's the reason I switched to Bisley 41 magnum, but that's another story.
 

vlavalle

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On another forum, in thread about possibility of making GP100 in 41 magnum, forum member CraigC posted:

"I totally forgot that the 10mm version of the GP already has a larger barrel shank. 11/16" compared to 5/8" on the .357 and .44Special. Which is a hair bigger than the .670" of the N-frame. The Redhawk, by contrast is 3/4", so 1/16th bigger.

Also worthy of note that the standard GP is a bit bigger than the L-frame at 5/8" (.625") compared to .562".

All these measurements are at the threads, not the forcing cone."

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/lipsey-ruger…ask-for-a-gp100-in-41-magnum.898006/page-5

Well, this opens opportunity not just for 41 caliber, but also for 44 Magnum, 45 Colt and 45 ACP.

FYI, in 2017 I wrote in thread "Future GP100 offerings?":

"GP100 in some sort of rimmed 10 mm Magnum (401 Powermag!?), 200 grains at 1400 fps from 6" barrel. However, cylinder should be done the same way as 45 Colt/45ACP Redhawk, so it could shoot rimmed 10 mm Magnum, and 10 mm Magnum (rimless)/10mm Auto/40S&W with clips. Can't imagine more versatile revolver. The only thing I would suggest on it is same steels for cylinder and barrel they use for 454 revolvers. I wouldn't mind paying few hundreds more for a such revolver."



I bet that noted GP100 in 10 Magnum rimmed, and cylinder cut for 10 mm rimless with clips, will go like hot cake.

Presently, I have 3 revolvers in 44 Magnum: SBH 5.5" SS converted to Bisley, blue Bisley 7.5", and Redhawk 7.5" SS. I am not handgun hunter, but have revolvers as a backup during wild boar hunt. However, I found that Redhawk is just too big and too heavy, I rarely take it even on shooting range, so it's for sale now. In that respect, GP100 6", up to 48 oz, in caliber larger than 357, makes sense.
Onty, I may be interested in you Ruger Redhawk 7.5" SS gun. Are you able to shoot 45ACP with it? And if so, I assume that is with moon clips?
 

Onty

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Sorry, I don't have Redhawk 45 Colt/45ACP, mine is 44 Magnum. Also, I am in Europe, so...
 

Onty

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You're in Europe and you can own a high powered and gun? What country are you in?
I am in Croatia. But in most countries in Europe, if shooter or hunter has a clean record, and spend time to get firearm license, high power handguns could be purchased (of course, Great Britain excluded, no handguns except C&B)). Prices are higher, and selection is not as good as in USA (Germany is the best) but we manage to get some revolvers, ammo and reloading components.
 

vlavalle

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I am in Croatia. But in most countries in Europe, if shooter or hunter has a clean record, and spend time to get firearm license, high power handguns could be purchased (of course, Great Britain excluded, no handguns except C&B)). Prices are higher, and selection is not as good as in USA (Germany is the best) but we manage to get some revolvers, ammo and reloading components.
Well, I am impressed and glad to hear that you can in some way get handguns. I thought all of Europe was against them and pretty much not allowed. I have a ballistics file that I built over the past 10 years that allows one to buy ammo online, but since you live in Europe, I think that this would not be allowed. Besides, I think that all the ammo links are US sources. But if you would like to see it just the same, and to learn about the relative ammo power, I can send it to you. It is a PDF file, and I have 35 handgun calibers (including your .44 Mag), and 25 rifle ones in this list. There are over 3,000 links to online ammo sources. Also, I have been to Dubrovnik!
 

mikeAZ

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Not to change the subject..... If Ruger can't even produce the Super GP in either 9mm or 357... It does't seem that the GP 100 would be avalibile in other calibers. Try to find one of the 9mm Super GP's even used.
 

vlavalle

Bearcat
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I see that there has been a lot of discussion of making a Ruger GP100 into other heavier loads than the .357 Mag. Given the huge differences in oiwer from the bigger calibers, I think that this would essentially take making a new, and bigger GP100 if it were to handle either .44 Mag or .45 LC loads. And here is why:

The .357 Mag is one of the most versatile loads made today, and it can range in power from a lowly "Cowboy' load of 225 ft. lbs. (Black Hills Ammo) all the way up to an impressive 907 ft. lbs. (PPU & Prvi). Keep that 907 in mind! The .45LC varies, again from a "Cowboy" load of 292 ft. lbs. (Black Hills again) all the way up to near .44 Mag high end loads of 1,344 ft. lbs. (Buffalo Bore 3K/20). And the .44 Mag goes up to 1,533 ft. lbs. (Buffalo Bore 4D/20). Both of these are huge increments of power over the max .357 Mag load. And for the .41 Mag people out there, this load goes up to a max of 1,153 ft. lbs. (Grizzly).

All this data comes from my ballistics file that has 35 handgun and 25 rifle calibers listed, with over 3,000 links to online sellers of ammo amongst all these calibers. This file is organized into two sections: first Handgun and then the Rifle links, and within each section, it is organized first by caliber, and then by ammo manufacturer, and then by bullet weight, and then by bullet speed. Many calibers have ammo made by the same manufacturer with bullets of the same weight, but with different muzzle velocities (the speed of the bullet as it exists the barrel). Within the same manufacturer, there are also different bullet types, and even with the same bullet weight and the same muzzle velocity as the other bullet types! So, this file is very detailed and shows the basic ballistics info for all ammo listed.

One final comment - this is regarding the bullet soeed, which here in the US is always measured in feet per second (fps). The speed of the bullet as it leaves the barrel is called the muzzle velocity (MV), and its power when it leaves the barrel is called the muzzle energy (ME). I did not mention any speeds in my comments, because this is really secondary because it is the power that is all in a gun. You can have a relatively high fps, but relatively low power with a light bullet. Or you can have a still relatively low power cartridge with a very heavy bullet and low MV.

These two factors produce the power, and its speed is far more important when calculating its power. So, my point here is that just mentioning speed is somewhat meaningless, unless the bullet weight is also mentioned, or assumed. But it is hard to assume a bullet weight in that many calibers have some really light weight bullets and very high speeds to create on paper a very high ME. But it seems to me that when hunting, or shooting a person as in self defense or in the military, using very light bullets and high speed is not very effective, and I would tend to discount this type of ammo.

For instance, I see a .357 Sig round of 50gr (normally 125 gr) with a MV of 2,300 fps (normally 1,350-1,500) that produces a ME of 587 ft. lbs, which is toward the high end of the .357 Sig ammo. Another example is that of a .40 S&W round with a bullet of 60gr (normally 180) with a MV of 2,000 fps (normally 900-1040), which produces 533 ft. lbs. of ME, which is also towards the high end of this caliber. There is a similar example with .45 ACP - a 78gr bullet (normally 185-230 gr) traveling at 1,900 fps (normally 850-1,200 fps), which produces 625 ft. lbs. I did not find any such 'rascals' in .44 Mag, and only 1 in .45LC (out of 152 entries). So, be careful what ammo you buy!

This file is available to anyone who wants it. It is free. I create it in Excel and I release it in PDF format, and it is too big to look at on a cell phone.
 

Onty

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Well, I am impressed and glad to hear that you can in some way get handguns. I thought all of Europe was against them and pretty much not allowed. I have a ballistics file that I built over the past 10 years that allows one to buy ammo online, but since you live in Europe, I think that this would not be allowed. Besides, I think that all the ammo links are US sources. But if you would like to see it just the same, and to learn about the relative ammo power, I can send it to you. It is a PDF file, and I have 35 handgun calibers (including your .44 Mag), and 25 rifle ones in this list. There are over 3,000 links to online ammo sources. Also, I have been to Dubrovnik!
As a matter of fact, I was told that some companies will ship overhere brass and reloading tools, but I am not sure about bullets. Loaded ammo, powder and primers are out of question. However, there are some importers of loaded ammo and bullets. As for prices, they are about 50% and more than you pay in USA.

Nevertheless, I would like to see what you have done. Will send you PM.

Yeah, Dubrovnik and other places (national parks), like Plitvice Lakes, Kornati, Krka, Paklenica, etc. are beautiful. However, I recommend May-June, or September. Temperatures are lower, way less tourists (some places are packed in July-August) and prices are bit lower. Also, be aware that in some national parks number of visitors is limited, so make sure that you have a ticket before going.
 

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