Glock 21

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Yosemite Sam

Hunter
Joined
Mar 18, 2002
Messages
2,113
Location
Cape Cod, MA, USA
I owned a 21C (compensated) for a while. Very nice guns. I think the compensated barrel was overkill and unnecessary. I sold mine and recently replaced it with a model 30 for ease of carrying.

My only concern was and is the polygonal rifling, and the fact that I will soon be shooting reloads almost exclusively after I use up my current stock of commercial .45 ACP. No way I'm paying current prices ($.50/round) for that. This means either getting an aftermarket, "lead-safe" barrel for ~$150, or buying plated bullets for reloading.

Glocks are nowhere near as elegant as some other guns, but IMO they're modern classics, have a great design with a minimum of parts, and it's hard to argue with their reliability record. You can get parts and accessories all over the place and at reasonable prices.

I love my gorgeous sixguns, 1911s, Rugers, and other guns with character, but I also like my ugly little Blocks. They have a certain appeal.

-- Sam
 

bub

Single-Sixer
Joined
Jul 28, 2007
Messages
245
Location
NE Ohio
Oh, boy, here we go! This is going to be a LONG post while I sing the praises of the Glock, so sit back and enjoy. Glocks are my favorite service-type gun and the G21 is my favorite Glock. I have a 2nd Gen G21 that I have been carrying on duty since 1992.

I have over 30,000 rds through this particular G21. I have run it wet, dry, upside down, right side up, from awkward positions, what have you. Aside from some of my reloads that I did not size properly, I have NEVER had a malfunction with it. Several years ago, an idiot firearms instructor who just KNEW better than everyone else ended up chipping off the bottom 1/3 of the extractor by dropping an empty case into the chamber to simulate a malf, then letting the slide slam home on it. Despite missing a LARGE chunk of the extractor, the gun still ran great. In fact, I didn't find the chip till I cleaned it that night.

As for the lead bullet issue, over 3/4 of the rounds through my G21 were lead round nose bullets that I reloaded. In a low pressure/low velocity gun like a .45ACP, I don't think the lead issue is an issue at all. Just keep an eye on the barrel and, if it starts leading excessively, clean it. I think the most I've ever fired at one time was around 350 rds and the leading consisted of just some smears at the end of the chamber. I would NEVER try lead in a 9mm, 10mm, .40 or .357 Glock with the factory barrel. Too much pressure and velocity if the lead does start building up and this can lead to a blown-up gun. The .45 should be a non-issue, though. Of course, this assumes that you use lead bullets that aren't dead soft. I use locally made (Mastercast Bullets in Enon Valley, PA) hard cast lead round nose and have never had a bit of trouble out of them.

Glocks are dead simple to work on, too. IIRC, even counting the magazine parts, Glocks only have 37 parts. A Glock can be detail stripped in about 5 minutes with just a 1/8" punch or even a ballpoint pen. Parts are everywhere and everything except the frame can be ordered directly from Glock, unlike a lot of manufacturers nowadays, who restrict a lot of the fire control components.

Mags are (relatively) dirt cheap, too. Last I checked, full-cap, factory G21 mags were $25.00 each, a far cry from some autos whose mags run $35.00 and up. I've seen used Glock mags at places like CDNN Investments for $9.99. They should be LE trade in and most LE agencies really don't shoot that much, so these mags should have a LOT of life left in them. ONLY USE FACTORY MAGS!!!!! I've seen normally stone-cold reliable Glocks turned into malfing, balky beasts by using aftermarket mags.

Holsters and accessories are readily available and almost every retailer lists at least a few.

Because of the Tenefer finish, Glocks are perhaps the most rust resistant guns out there. I have carried mine in downpours, freezing cold weather then going inside which leads to condensation, been shooting in pouring rain and almost blizzard conditions, have sweated like a pig on mine in the summer and have NEVER seen ANY rust at all on my gun. I can't even say this about stainless guns. The Tenefer finish is a heat-treat process and is not the black finish on the slide, so even if the black finish wears off, the Tenefer finish is still protecting the gun.

One of the best Glock features is the short trigger reset. EMPTY THE GUN, pull the trigger, hold it in, cycle the slide and slowly let the trigger out. Should travel less than half it's travel and you will hear/feel a "click". All you have to do is pull the trigger from this point to fire the gun again, no need to let the trigger the rest of the way out. Once you get used to it, almost anyone can run the Glock pistols REAL FAST! The trigger is a little mushy, but once you get the hang of shooting from trigger reset, the trigger feels almost like a factory, mil-spec 1911 trigger, at least to me. Pretty light and pretty short which leads t better accuracy.

I have never tried one of the "Short Frame" variants, so I can't talk to them, but the G21 is a BIG gun! Make sure it fits your hand before buying. This and the extreme grip angle are really the only complaints most have against the Glock pistols. Even most of those who can't deal with the grip angle will readily admit that Glocks are, overall, one of the most reliable pistols around.

Well, I'll stop there. Sorry for the long post, I didn't intend for it to be quite that long. It's just that I LOVE Glocks and try to share the love every time I can. They are great guns and, if you have big enough hands and can adjust to the grip angle, the G21 will serve you very well.

Bub
 

SR9c

Bearcat
Joined
Feb 23, 2010
Messages
17
Well, I have on my flame proof suit....It the M&P had come out the same time as the Glock, and if S&W had given them away to the LE Agencys the way Glock did...At this point in time, people would say; "Glock who"?

S&W is slowly taking back market share now, and if they had 25 years to "improve" their product like Glock has, well, it just boggles my mind...There is one Glock in my house, a 20SF 10mm, it is a dedicated house gun only, and the day Ruger makes a "SR45", it will be GONE!

Glocks are durable, at least the 9mm's are but they have never heard of ERGONOMICS in Austria I guess.
M&P feels very nice, great compared to a Glock. I would still rather have a Ruger SR9c than any Glock or M&P in 9mm...

There, I said it! You are welcome to your opinion, but the above is mine...

BTW, to answer you original question, depending on hand size, the "SF" model is better with med to smaller hands..regular 21 for the large hand guys...
 

one bullet

Single-Sixer
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
428
Location
North Carolina
Thanks for the input. I do have big hands but prefer the feel of the 21sf. I've read about problems with the ambi mag release on the SF and it makes me hesitant to buy it. Does anyone know if those issues have been resolved?
 

welder

Buckeye
Joined
Sep 2, 2007
Messages
1,813
Location
western ky usa
Bub, thanks for a very good post. If I weren't already a Glock fan and needed info, I could learn a lot from your very good post. The OP asked for info and he got it.

By the way, I have had a G21 on my want list for a long time.
 

SR9c

Bearcat
Joined
Feb 23, 2010
Messages
17
one bullet":197k5adx said:
Thanks for the input. I do have big hands but prefer the feel of the 21sf. I've read about problems with the ambi mag release on the SF and it makes me hesitant to buy it. Does anyone know if those issues have been resolved?

The SF model they market in Calif has the regular Glock rail and single side mag release...they come with 10 round mags, but I used them for car mags at the time and just got regular mags, and with the single mag release, it takes old or new style mags...your dealer could order one from dist...
 

bub

Single-Sixer
Joined
Jul 28, 2007
Messages
245
Location
NE Ohio
No problem, welder. I'll readily admit that I am, perhaps, one of Glock's biggest fans. When I got mine and saw how it shot and how reliable it is, I learned everything I could about them. You also have to remember, when the G21 was introduced, if you wanted a hi-cap .45, you had exactly 2 choices- the Glock 21 or a single-action-only Para Ordnance. This is what originally drew me to the G21, a hi-cap .45 auto. I have maintained my Glock Armorer's certification now since about 1994. You have to go retake the class and recertify every 3 years (used to be every 2 years). Last class I took, I had been doing this longer than the Glock employee that taught the class! Of course, HE gets to go back to Smyrna on a regular basis and play with all the GOOD toys (read Glock 18!) and I don't.

While I have never even held a S&W M&P, I'll readily admit, from all that I have read, that they seem to be good guns. I'll also readily admit that, if S&W had brought out the M&P instead of the original Sigma, they may well have buried Glock with it. The point is, however, that they didn't. While S&W may well be gaining marketshare in LE circles, Glock is still the overwhelming choice in LE firearms and will be for some time to come. They are established, have stupendous LE customer support and cater to everything LE needs. If an LE agency breaks or otherwise damages a Glock, it's not uncommon for Glock to overnight parts or even entire guns to take care of the LE agency, at little or no cost. In fact, at every armorer's course I have ever taken (except the last one; evidently TSA decided that a box of spare parts was evil, while allowing 40 whole, functional Glock pistols was OK...go figure!), the Glock regional rep was there and, aside from frames, barrels and slides, was handing out parts like they were free candy to everyone who wanted them. Aside from a barrel, slide and frame, I think I have enough Glock parts between my desk at work and my parts box at home to build a couple of Glocks! S&W will have to work real hard to overcome this.

I'll also admit that I am somewhat annoyed with Glock for their lack of innovation regarding their guns. Sure, there have been some small, incremental improvements, but nothing really new and exciting. Even the announcement of the new Glocks with the interchangable backstraps was kinda, "ho-hum, everyone else has already done it". Of course, according to the guy that taught my last armorer's class, Glock is working flat-out making the guns they already make and have quite the backorder list. I suppose, if they are that busy, they really feel no need to innovate. This may well come back to bite them on the butt if S&W keeps innovating and improving, while Glock stands still. Time will tell.

Bub
 

welder

Buckeye
Joined
Sep 2, 2007
Messages
1,813
Location
western ky usa
Bub, I bought a G19, (police trade in-factory rebuild) about 8-10 years ago. I can't really remember. I had read good things about them and found them to fit MY hand well. I remember Chuck Taylor abusing his G17 and read all the testing he did afterward and almost didn't believe it. I was fairly new to auto handguns and had some bad learning experiences due to impatience and failure to do enough research. I really wanted a good auto and the Glock fit the bill for me. I actually left it in the safe after a few rounds and continued to carry my Kahr E9 for ccw. I also used a SP101-.357 as well. Honestly the Glock did not appeal to me at all. It was highly accurate and I never would call it ugly, but I was partial to my favorites and just left it alone.
I was watching gun videos on you tube and came across one where the guy was saying how easy it was to detail strip one and how you could buy all the parts easily. That rekindled my Interest and out of the safe it came. About 10 minutes later I had it completely apart and began to see the beauty of the thing. Simplicity in the truest sense of the word. I was introduced to computers around that time and my son, (who took the Glock out regularly) got me to visiting The Glock talk forum. I didn't have a computer and every time I got a chance I read the forum. One thing led to another and I began to really appreciate what a simple robust little gun I had. I was having some issues with my Kahr and decided to use the Glock for ccw. I'll admit there was a learning curve, but in no time, and after trying several brands of ammo, I was sold. Accurate, 100% reliable, and carried well. I didn't worry about a little sweat or dirt. I came to trust the gun totally, that is as far as you can trust any machine or tool. As it sits on my desk, it has never given me anything but good service, and I'll will never trade/sell it. I lost track of the round count and really don't care anyway. All in all, I feel like I got a great deal: a used police gun, rebuilt, about a hundred and twenty dollars cheaper than a new one but I never found a single scratch, or ding. I assume it was refinished, I don't know.
I love my Ruger revolvers, Mini 14 and !911's. I have a fondness for my Berettas, but I carry my Glock daily. It is like my work truck, I count on it, and get in it everyday. I don't even think about it failing to work. That alone is worth a lot to me. I won't argue with anyone over a gun, I have better things to do. I will endorse Glock, at least mine, and recommend them to any one if they fit their hand. I don't really fault Glock for their lack of innovation or variations on models, but that's me. I like them and like you said, they are selling as fast as possible. I had a S&W M&Pc/9mm for a few weeks, but sold it to a friend. I never fired it and have the two new mags they offered that arrived 8 months later. I liked it, but bought it on an impulse and my friend couldn't find one anywhere, so I let it go. It appeared to be well made and I regret selling it, but I know I probably wouldn't have carried it much anyway. Maybe later I'll pick one up. I agree they might have given Glock some competition if out earlier, but I really believe with the service and support, simplicity and pretty much the "ignore it" ability of the Glock, they would still be the LE gun it has come to be. I don't know. I just know I like mine and trust it. There are no issues and it fills the need I ask of it. That's about all I expect from a tool. Now, if we get into revolvers or 1911's, we'll take a whole other mind set. They involve emotions and history you know. :D :D :D
 

kd4rgwml

Single-Sixer
Joined
Oct 26, 2009
Messages
205
Location
Keithville La.
Wow really great gun the glock. I have shot and agree that they work and are good enough for Sd use. I just can't get by the UGLY :shock: and the Holy aura emitted must make CC kinda hard :roll: :roll: :roll:

but they just not for me, if only they were pretty :lol:
 

glocksrus

Bearcat
Joined
Aug 27, 2008
Messages
96
Location
South Ms.
Ulgy?
glock004.jpg
 

Yosemite Sam

Hunter
Joined
Mar 18, 2002
Messages
2,113
Location
Cape Cod, MA, USA
SR9c":15b5kcr8 said:
Well, I have on my flame proof suit....It the M&P had come out the same time as the Glock, and if S&W had given them away to the LE Agencys the way Glock did...At this point in time, people would say; "Glock who"?

S&W is slowly taking back market share now, and if they had 25 years to "improve" their product like Glock has, well, it just boggles my mind...There is one Glock in my house, a 20SF 10mm, it is a dedicated house gun only, and the day Ruger makes a "SR45", it will be GONE!

Glocks are durable, at least the 9mm's are but they have never heard of ERGONOMICS in Austria I guess.
M&P feels very nice, great compared to a Glock. I would still rather have a Ruger SR9c than any Glock or M&P in 9mm...

There, I said it! You are welcome to your opinion, but the above is mine...

BTW, to answer you original question, depending on hand size, the "SF" model is better with med to smaller hands..regular 21 for the large hand guys...
I agree with the (practically) "giving them away" line. That definitely led to their acceptance and subsequent popularity, availability of parts & accessories, holsters and all that. Those very points in turn make it an accessible gun for a lot of people. That, and the dead-nuts simple operation.

I wish they were .25" thinner, though. And mags are now pushing $30 most places, which is a shame. Still better than $45 for my PPS or $50 for an H&K mag.

BTW, the latest "Gen4 RTF" guns have replaceable backstraps, so you can get a much better grip angle/feel.

Time will tell about both the M&P (the new, plastic ones; remember, S&W has been using "M&P" since the early 1900s) and the XDs. I see both of these as evolutions of the Glock design, but for now (and for me), the simpler, proven Glock gets my vote. I owned had an XD subcompact and it was a nice gun, but got traded off, and I considered an M&P .45 recently, but ended up with the Glock 30.

-- Sam
 

bub

Single-Sixer
Joined
Jul 28, 2007
Messages
245
Location
NE Ohio
Welder, the simplicity and the 13+1 capacity in .45 were what sold me. When I first started in LE, I was one of those that made fun of the "Plastic Guns" and said stuff like the hole behind the mag well was for the super glue to fix the frame when you broke it, they're ugly and soul-less, etc. One of the armorers at our Dept was stripping and cleaning some of the Dept owned G17s one day, so I sat down to watch. I couldn't believe the simplicity of the design and how few parts they had. I was carrying a personally owned Sig 226 at the time and, compared to the Glock, the Sig was an overly complicated jigsaw puzzle. Not long after, Glock came out with the G21 and I just had to have one. It's been a love affair ever since.

I also have a G26. Well, HAD a G26. I used to carry it for backup and off duty use but I made the mistake of letting my wife shoot it. She promptly stole it and won't give it back. I didn't try real hard to get it back because it let me go get another gun (my equally beloved SP101) and it lets my wife have a gun at home that she likes, shoots pretty well and has confidence in when I work nights, which happens a lot. About 5000 rds through it and, aside from several malfs during the first 150-200 rds, it has also been flawless. Just like flipping a switch as soon as it got about 150 rds through it, it straightened up and ran right and has ever since.

When I get cash, I'm going to try and find a good used 2nd Gen G19. To me, the G19 seems to be the perfect example of a very size-efficient gun. Compact size but still a full 15 rd mag that you can get a good grip on and shoot well. The finger grooves on the newer Glocks (3rd Gen and up) just don't fit me at all, so it's used for me, unless Glock starts making some without finger grooves. The newer guns are just as good as the older guns, I just can't use the finger grooves.

To me, beauty is as beauty does. Based on this, and my experiences with Glocks, they are the most beautiful guns out there. As long as the ergonomics work for you, I continue to push the Glocks when people ask me what kind of gun they should get. They aren't quite perfect like Glock advertising suggests, but I happen to think they are as close to perfect as humans are able to design and build at this time.

Bub
 

welder

Buckeye
Joined
Sep 2, 2007
Messages
1,813
Location
western ky usa
Agreed Bub. I too had a 26 but traded it and wanted to replace it with a 17, but now I'm leaning toward a 21. That's what caught my eye in this post. My 19 is a early gen 3, it only has two (assembly) pins where the later ones have three. I was told it was to do something for the .40 version and that they used the same frame, but I've never known for sure. My co-worker bought a new one at work last year and as far as we could tell, that was the only difference. I agree with the best we can build at this time, all things considered. I don't know how one could improve on reliability/user friendliness and keep the price as low as they do. I guess from a reliability stand point my G19 and both my Berettas, 92 and 96 and an old Kimber classic series 1 are the only autos I currently own that have been 100% from the box. I had an S&W 3913 that was also 100 % but traded it, and thoroughly regret that trade too.
 

airwin

Bearcat
Joined
Mar 9, 2001
Messages
88
Location
Austria
As an Austrian citizen I´m a Glock owner of course. I love the G20 and has let change the big frame to a SF-frame which fits my hand much more better. The original frame was too big for my 9 1/2 sized hands. Check this before buying a big framed Glock. I can´t say any bad about Glock guns too, they are light, smart designed, simply to use and very reliable. A typical representative of workhorses.
 
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