For those are having problems sizing the 38-40 and 44-40

[Blackhawk Convertable]

I have both Lee and RCBS die sets for the 38-40 and 44-40 chamberings. I have been frustrated trying to size them to fit my Ruger hand guns. They will both chamber and cycle fine in my 2 Uberti 1873's but not in the Rugers. I have tried different shell holders and lubes all to no avail. I even thought that I would have to send them to the Cylindersmith to get opened up a tad. Not a cheap option when I have 3 of the 38-40 and 4 of the 44-40 Ruger pistols.

I happened to run across a couple of virgin 38-40 cases and compared them to once fired. Here is a picture of the difference:

The one on the left is virgin and the one on the right is fireformed and sized in a die. As you can see, the virgin brass has the shoulder much lower than the fire formed and sized brass.

It was at this point the little light started to flicker. So as a "what have I to lose" option, I took my Lee 38-40 sizing die to work the other day and here's what I did. I removed the decap pin and put a second lock down ring on the die so there was one at each end giving me a level base to work with. I went over to our 6" belt sander machine and proceeded to remove about 1/16" or so of metal from the base of the die. What this did was to effectively move the shoulder back that tad little bit when sizing a case. The result is that now they will all chamber nicely in the pistols. So, the next day, I proceeded to do the same thing with my RCBS 44-40 sizing die. And guess what? They too all now chamber nicely.

I don't know if I got the only two dies at the forward end of tolerance or not. (I suspect that there are tons more just like what I have) I do know that I was not expecting to find both Lee and RCBS to have the same issues.

I thought that if anyone else out there was getting frustrated with the 38WCF and 44WCF rounds, that maybe my experience would help them out a bit.

 

[BIgMuddy]

BC

Good tip! That is exactly what I did several years ago. Also did the same thing on my crimp die. I have been shooting 38 WCF for 15 years now.

I had to alter the crimp die after Dillon increased the thickness of their shell plate for the 550. I was not able to get a tight enough crimp without removing some metal there also.

 

[Tx gun runner]

I took my off shell holder on my 32-20's and my
44-40's and worked great also... but I only needed
maybe 10 or 12 thousand off each one

 

[Parson Colt]

How is this affecting brass life?

 

[Blackhawk Convertable]

Should not make a difference. You are only pushing the shoulder back a tad to where it should be. Should be less evasive than working the neck every time you size, bell and crimp.

 

[Tx gun runner]

How is this affecting brass life?

My 32-20's maybe 12 reloads on them, but my 44-40's
has 66 reloads in the last 13 years, without one case
failure on 32-20 or 44-40 ..

The 44-40's are fired in these gun's... I do SASS and CAS

7 1/2 hunting - 4 5/8 SASS - 3 1/2 practice

 

[Blackhawk Convertable]

btt

 

[Boxhead]

I use Hornady dies and have no issues.

 

[Enigma]

I think this is actually a fairly common need with these particular cartridges. Back when I first began reloading .32-20 I did a bit of research online, and it seems like Paco Kelly recommended shortening your sizing die a tad bit right from the beginning.

FWIW, I've done this with a number of sizing dies in .308 Win, .280 Rem, and others over the years. It's more an issue of chamber dimensions and tolerance stacking than it is of any one (or two, or three) brand(s) of dies.

 

[Jbar4Ranch]

I chucked my .38-40 and .44-40 dies in my lathe some time back to make 'em work with my three .38-40 Vaqueros and eight .44-40 Vaqueros. The problem only seems to arise with Vaqueros.

 

[Tx gun runner]

I chucked my .38-40 and .44-40 dies in my lathe some time back to make 'em work with my three .38-40 Vaqueros and eight .44-40 Vaqueros. The problem only seems to arise with Vaqueros.

Yes I agree only happens in the Vaquero , Its a Ruger
thing not one Italy clone or orginal gun I've owned
needed the dies modified....

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

This is fairly common with these calibers. A lot of guys routinely grind back their sizing/decap dies so the shoulder will be set back the proper distance. I usually buy Winchester 44-40 brass and always size it in a regular RCBS die. I only shoot 44-40 in rifles, and have never had a problem with them chambering. As a matter of fact, my RCBS die barely touches virgin Winchester 44-40 brass, and I don't even bother lubing them fresh out of the bag. Once they have been fireformed in my rifles, they require lubing.

 

[Blackhawk Convertable]

btt

 

[buckbeans]

blackhawk
I have a vaquero 38/40 and seem to have no problems chambering both new cases and once shot brass with my new lee loading dies.
I gather that if I get it in, it is ok then right? Is accuracy an issue?
Another issue is the throat. One of the local gunsmith said that the ruger 38/40 have tight throats like we expect from the 45 colts and most needed reaming. Is this true?

 

[Tx gun runner]

Drop a bullet in cylinder and push it out the ft of cylinder .
I guess Ruger uses a .400 barrel , so a .400 or .401
bullet should fall out cyl or tap out lightly . If you need to
drive it out you need to measure it . Cyl need to be .001
or .002 larger then bore for cast bullets . NOW before
everyone jumps up and down on me . There 10 other
ways to do it and sometimes .398 will shoot good and
not lead . Take that bullet put in the other chambers and
see if they all even . There a guy on the forum called the
cylinder smith who can fix it if needed .

 

[Blackhawk Convertable]

btt

 

[Blackhawk Convertable]

btt

 

[Blackhawk Convertable]

Been a while so BTTT again

 

[jefats]

I had the same problem in 44-40 and 38-40. Even talked to the Lee folks and they offered to modify a die for me. Instead, I went to Hornady dies and haven't had a problem since, on either cartridge. Their sizer die returns the neck to its original length. No lost cases since.

 

[Blackhawk Convertable]

Once more to the breach dear friends....