FFL question & answers

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3ddiver

Bearcat
Joined
Sep 24, 2008
Messages
10
Location
Illinois
When I search for info about obtaining an FFL 95% of what I get are ads for a kit to help you get one. They all claim you will get it on your first try with their kit. I know they dont just hand them out like candy but are they really that hard to get? I was just looking for info such as cost and what the steps are to get one. Thanks
 

BlkHawk73

Hunter
Joined
Dec 30, 1999
Messages
4,436
Location
Maine
Go to the BATFE website. I do know they're more difficult tog et than they used to be when everyone had them for kitchen table transactions. You do actully need a storefront now. Don't forget the state tax and state business things as well.
 

yooper1

Single-Sixer
Joined
Feb 28, 2009
Messages
467
Location
U. P. of MI.
A couple of false statements are:

- You HAVE to have a brick & Mortar storefront
That is usually false. (It will vary depending upon your local zoning laws and business regulations)

- You have to buy a "Kit" online to apply.
That is false again.

DO NOT BUY THE KIT!

I do not have a store front and I work literally from my kitchen table.

The following is how I did it.

DISCLAIMER: Your situation(s) may warrant different actions.

DISCLAIMER 2: I am not liable for any changes or alterations or other actions you may need to take or have taken so far

Let me give you a few helpful links for info.


The ATF has a "How to Become a Federal Firearms Licensee (FFL)" page here

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/how-to/become-an-ffl.html

You are more than likely looking for the 01 FFL (which is the normal gun sales and purchases...no full autos allowed)

This site

http://www.atf.gov/forms/dcof/

is where you order your FREE 01 FFL application.

fill in the name and address and other info on the left (part 1)

address_info.jpg


and then

In the right hand column click on the "applications" link in the lower window and then find :


choose-1.jpg



ATF F 7(5310.12) - Federal Firearms License Application Packet (includes instructions, fingerprint cards, and other material)
Limit 1 copy per order


Click the box in front of it and above the right column, you will see

order_item.jpg


"most requested forms"...and 3 steps.

the 1st step, select Item 1

the second step says to select a form below, which you should have choosen:

ATF F 7(5310.12) - Federal Firearms License Application Packet (includes instructions, fingerprint cards, and other material)
Limit 1 copy per order


Step 3 you click the ADD button and it will appear in the list of items you ordered (which is on the lower left)

Repeat the above steps for any other forms you may need (but everything you need to apply is in that one kit)

It is also where you click SUBMIT only once to order the paperwork

submit.jpg


It can take about 30 to 45 days + to get it.

But it is FREE.

continued next post....
 

yooper1

Single-Sixer
Joined
Feb 28, 2009
Messages
467
Location
U. P. of MI.
Once you get the packet you will have 3 copies of the application to fill out. (yes....3)

Make sure all three are exactly the same.

1 copy is of the BATF

1 copy is for your local Police Chief (or Sheriff if you have no local PD)

1 copy is yours to keep.

Then there will be finger print cards. You need to go to your local Sheriff Office (or possibly police dept) and get finger printed for your 01 FFL, (the officers will know what to do.) They may charge you for this. Normally here it is $15.

My Sheriff Dept printed me and I mailed my cards in with the application.

You will need a passport quality photo of yourself. Just from the shoulders up. I used Walgreens to take mine. You need to attach 1 photo to the copy of the app for the BATF and 1 photo to the copy of the app that goes to your local Police Chief (or Sheriff). Each copy has an area marked where you attach the photo to.

The fee is $200 to apply and is good for 3 years. Then it is only $90 for 3 years after the first 3. (If you are denied the license, you will get the $200 refunded back to you) You have choices of paying either by check or credit card.

Once all the paperwork and necessary requested items are assembled and done, mail them off to the address it says in the packet . I suggest mailing it out either Priority with tracking or by certified mail. That way you know they get it.

Then be prepared to wait.

They got my paperwork on April 6th. Deposited my check on April 7th and I finally heard from them on something like June 11th.

They will call you and set up an interview where they go over paperwork...and do a basic premise check.

Then, in my case, I was called 1 week later saying my FFL had been approved and issued and it was in the mail.

continued next post....
 

yooper1

Single-Sixer
Joined
Feb 28, 2009
Messages
467
Location
U. P. of MI.
Lastly...

you need to make sure you have a state tax id....free here in Michigan.

You need to make sure you are zoned correctly...

You may need to get a city business license

the ATF will ask to see proof of this at your interview. (They actually check prior to contacting you...so do not lie)

Somewhere in the application instructions it states that you supposedly have something like 30 days after your FFL is issued to become totally compliant with all local laws like zoning, etc. But in my case they asked about it before issuing the FFL.....I do not know why.

You may also want to make sure you have appropriate insurance.

The interview is basically an agent who goes over the necessary steps an FFL needs to do when selling, buying or transfering firearms.

The premise check is basically verifying you are where you say you are.

they do stress "secure" storage for your inventory of guns. this DOES NOT mean you HAVE TO HAVE a safe, but you need a secure place / way to store the guns.

Once you get through the interview and they issue the FFL....you can then enroll with NICS. That will get you an account with the FBI that allows you to call in and check an individual before selling a gun.

the ATF supplies most of the forms you will need free of charge...you can also order them at the first link I gave you in my 1st reply.

forms like 4473, etc.

So...go for it...help keep our 2nd Amendment rights alive..

all they (or your city) could say is either yes or no...doesn't cost a thing to try.
 

yooper1

Single-Sixer
Joined
Feb 28, 2009
Messages
467
Location
U. P. of MI.
I operate out of my single family home.

It is in a neighborhood with other single family homes and we are somewhat rural.

I am zoned residential....not commercial

I am not required to have any parking or signs.

I am literally a "Kitchen Table Dealer"

All cases can and may require different stuff...so be prepared.


ATF FAQ page here:
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faqindex.htm

Here is

ATF P 5300.5 State Laws and Published Ordinances - Firearms
(2007 - 28th Edition)

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/statelaws/2 ... /index.htm


notice it has state by state laws......read up on Illinois

it is easier to download it and read it that way


edited to add that I am zoned residential
 

yooper1

Single-Sixer
Joined
Feb 28, 2009
Messages
467
Location
U. P. of MI.
As with everything else....it will vary for each person

My insurance did not rise at all.

It all depended on whether I will have inventory in stock.
(Hopefully that will change as I go along)

I am operating basically as a catalog shopping pick-up center so I basically have ZERO inventory at this time.

I am just a place that operates as a paperwork center. Gun comes in in the morning, buyer comes in in the afternoon and fills out their 4473.

In Michigan they need a Purchase Permit from the Police Dept in advance or a Concealed Pistol Permit for handguns, so I do not run them thru NICS...that was done by the PD already. There is no waiting period.

Long guns have no waiting period either, but those buyers fill out the 4473 and I call in and get a yes or no.

Then the buyer takes the gun and is out of here in 15 minutes.
 

yooper1

Single-Sixer
Joined
Feb 28, 2009
Messages
467
Location
U. P. of MI.
you folks are welcome

Just remember that each state and city / town may have different laws and or ordinances in regards to "home" based businesses.

I kept putting my application off for about 9 months. I was afraid it would be a big hassle and that the city or state would say no....but I said to myself...heck...the worst that could happen is that they say no....

I did not mention above...but

FFL 01's cannot be used just to increase your private collection

The ATF agent also said they want to see activity....not just someone getting a license and sitting on it.

They hope to keep guns moving...I guess.

Also...by applying and being granted an FFL....you automatically agree to the fact that the ATF can enter your place of business 1 time a year unannounced in order to do a compliance check. (during your published hours of operation)

Basically they will inspect your bound books, your other gun related paperwork like 4473's and anything else related to your gun business. They will not (or should not) need to go through your whole house...just the area where you conduct your firearm business. My area is the kitchen.

Make sure you store your personal firearms in other security safes or cabinets, away from your inventory firearms.

There may be other visits by local PD or SD to check / trace gun sales in the case of robberies or other events, but they cannot force their way in. An FFL has 24 hours (I think) to get that info back to the ATF or the police.
 

yooper1

Single-Sixer
Joined
Feb 28, 2009
Messages
467
Location
U. P. of MI.
thanks...

yup

just a plain joe

no store front

hoping to make a few bucks

hopefully doing a lot of transfers....as my town's main street crosses into wisconsin and is that towns main street and there are good gun shops over there, but it is a hassle getting them here

so I am not afraid to ask a couple of bucks to do it for someone
 

umaggb

Bearcat
Joined
Aug 22, 2009
Messages
7
An excellent thread, its certainly changed from the olden days...I would like to add something I feel important to any perspective dealers. Should you successfully apply make certain your paperwork is concise,4473, multiple pistol sales or whatever requires additional attention these days, be meticulous about acquisition and disposition records. Keep a spiral, or other form of media for your reference. Check it constantly against the hardbook or whatever the Feds require nowadays. Its easy to let stuff slide and then go back and try to pencil in the dates or whatever from memory. Keep your paperwork current or it could cost you.
 

rugerdczr

Blackhawk
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
670
Location
Catskills, New York
I had my FFL 15 years ago I wanted to open a Gun Shop But just didn't get around to it,I gave the FFL up Dumb move, With my Electrical Contracting Business pretty slow now and I have a empty 2000 Sq Foot Part of my Shop on a busy Highway with alot of City Traffic on Weekends . I'M going to give it a try, I have a good amount of money saved who knows.
 

seebs

Single-Sixer
Joined
Oct 29, 2009
Messages
113
Location
North Dakota
Something else that nobody has posted yet. Most distributors require a store front even if the Feds don't. They like pictures of the store and inventory. This is to help protect the stocking dealers. They also like to deal on the amount you buy. Like in any sales position, the distributor sales staff gives hard to get guns to dealers that buy larger amounts from them. They make more the more they sell. Not that you can't find a good sales person or distributor for just the mail order or (kitchen table sales) but it can be hard.

Just my two cents.

Mike
 

rugerdczr

Blackhawk
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
670
Location
Catskills, New York
I am just about to open a new Shop getting the FFL was the easy part, it took me 4 Months to get the Planning board to approve changing the use of my Building from Warehouse to retail. Waiting on contractors and Time Warner was no Fun. Opening On Friday :shock: :shock: :D :D
 

yooper1

Single-Sixer
Joined
Feb 28, 2009
Messages
467
Location
U. P. of MI.
rugerdczr said:
And Yes all the Distributors want pictures,tax numbers,FFL,hours,Money and first born Boy.


NO, not "ALL" the distributors want or need pictures.

Davidsons, Zanders, Jerrys Sport Center, Grice Wholesale, Sports South, MGE, Williams do not need photos.

I have open accounts with them all and they have never asked.

They do want tax numbers, a copy of your ffl , and of course your payments.

Some did ask hours of operation. I think that way they can call you and try and get you to buy stuff.
 

yooper1

Single-Sixer
Joined
Feb 28, 2009
Messages
467
Location
U. P. of MI.
I see that the photos I put in the first post have been removed.

The exact way to get your FFL has changed and I do not / did not make any updated screen grabs.

But you can find out how to get your FFL here:

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/how-to/become-an-ffl.html

and

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/licensing.html
 

Nanchulla

Bearcat
Joined
Jan 24, 2015
Messages
55
I submitted my application for my C&R. How long does it take to receive Your license
 

golferboy426

Buckeye
Joined
Dec 30, 2007
Messages
1,601
Location
Connecticut
RoninPA said:
Notice that it does not say "only an 01, 07, FFL can do this." If you have an 03 license, you are considered a federally licensed dealer, and as so, you can ship using the USPS. You just have to use the USPS Form 1508 and attach a copy of your license to the form when you ship.

The above quote is incorrect IMO. BTW we have an FFL

The 1508 state " This form can only be used by manufacturers or dealers of firearms"

An 03, (C&R) is not a dealer, thus cannot ship handguns legally by mail
 

golferboy426

Buckeye
Joined
Dec 30, 2007
Messages
1,601
Location
Connecticut
Here is a USPS linK which Identifies authorized persons. It specifies "dealer". If you ask any ATF person or check their web site , the ATF specifies that an 03 C&R is a "collector"

http://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c4_009.htm
 
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