Factory Ruger Stags 101

[chet15]

I don't know or remember if the June 1953 Dope Bag Report was by Julian Hatcher or not, but the Julian Hatcher Single Six, #14 has ivory grips with the medallion set back, more than the 3/16", and is relatively flat on the bottom. I watched this piece sell at the RCA Auction in New Orleans in 1986. I do not own it, but have seen it once since then. Those of you who have seen the Larry Koller books from the '50's will note pictures of his Single Six and .357 with ivory, with the medallion farther back, I don't think he had 2 sets of grips, but used the one set and switched them for photo purposes. The writeup of the Bearcat Testfire in Guns & Hunting from 1959 also shows what is a 2 digit Single Six with the ivories. The medallion is not in the same place as what we all believe is correct!! All the pictures look to have the medallion in same place as the black rubber grips!!
I believe both the Hatcher and Koller grips to have been Factory; not something they had made up.
Comments on this??
I have really enjoyed Chet15's comments in this thread and would appreciate his and anyone else's comments about the two sets of grips mentioned

The dope bag report has a letter prototype pictured in it. I haven't seen a pic of the #14 Single-Six but would like a peek if somebody has one.
El Numero Uno....did you keep that Fred Davis Single-Six which had a factory letter with it that said it was shipped with ivory panels? That one is still the only one I've ever heard of that has received a letter saying it was shipped with such panels. Just curious how those grips look. That Fred Davis, Jr. collection should have had other stags or ivory in there as well...in fact, I think I need to look at that Gunfacts '69 issue to see how those look.
On the Koller gun, I don't have an answer for that. I know many of you might think I'm drawing straws here and others will probably be upset with me on it (just looking for the pros and cons), but Ruger wasn't the only company getting ivory SA grips. I have seen plenty of ivory panels with extra grip locator holes indicating they were originally made for a Colt grip frame. I wish Koller were still around to ask this question, but would it be possible Koller could have popped a medallions out of a pair of Colt grips in order to get the pics he wanted for his publications? Second hand Colt panels should have been much more common than Ruger ivory at the time, and those that were out there were probably a lot cheaper than Ruger's $16 a pair). Again, it is good point, but I don't know. A lot of writers had these early guns given to them, but would WBR have given accessories to them?
But if Ruger did use a jig, and they apparently did, I'm not sure what other conclusion one can come up with.
I will sway a little here in the possibility that those first 108 pair of ivory that Ruger received from the supplier could technically have had different medallion positions....depends how soon the "jig" was made. But I don't think this very likely at all...again because everything a quality manufacture does is "jigged". The grips on #'s 7 and 8 Spanish Single-Sixes came out of that first group of 108 pair of ivory.
If the owner of #14 Single-Six has the documentation (or a pic) that shows the grips came on the gun originally, and the medallions are off....then I'll go with it, and we can all say this has been a wonderful learning experience.
Chet15

 

[rugerguy]

absolutely, and this is why I say "never say never..." Colt 'stag' grips certainly have been around , a LOT longer, and they did NOT put Colt medallions on them, and as you have so noted and we all agree upon, this "hole relocation" ( even if it wss "repaired/doctored") would be "obvious"...yes, a far as pictures and the the like go, I for one would NOT bet the ranch on ANY "computer/digital camera" picture ,on ANY internet site...( gee whynot???) DUh..........
again, as far as Colt grips go, for the MOST part, they are "too fat" to properly install a Ruger medallion, in ANY "normal" ?? position...they have to be 'shaved" (thinned out, or cut down, slanted towards the front...) to get Ruger "normal" thicknesses, and cut outs......LOTS of old model Ruger flatgates out there, new from the gun shops , that had "colt" type stags installed on them , point of purchase.........
we know that Mr Ruger wanted to be "different" than the 'Colts' and had put the Ruger medallions in the molded, plastic ( hard rubber) grips and how was that location, dimension determined??? is it on any 'patent' or copyright 'applications??????,again,,,,,same as the "Later" walnuts, and again, gee whiz, in the "same location, much further back and down.....???hhhhmmmmm...............

 

[SteveRuger]

I looked over the Spanish # 7 & # 8 very carefully for the present Owner just before he purchased them & I Must say I have yet to see a nicer pair of Factory Ivory Grips! If someone can pull up the pictures of the NRA Show in Madisen Wisconsin they were on display along with # 6, # 9, # 10. One of the best RSS Display's ever. J/S

 

[chet15]

absolutely, and this is why I say "never say never..." Colt grips certainly have been around , a LOT longer, and they did NOT put Colt medallins on them,

On page 225 of the fine James Serven book "Colt Firearms From 1836", originally published in 1954, is a pic of a Colt flattop Target SAA in 22 rimfire with ivories on it that do have Colt medallions.
Chet15

 

[chet15]

I looked over the Spanish # 7 & # 8 very carefully for the present Owner just before he purchased them & I Must say I have yet to see a nicer pair of Factory Ivory Grips! If someone can pull up the pictures of the NRA Show in Madisen Wisconsin they were on display along with # 6, # 9, # 10. One of the best RSS Display's ever. J/S

One need only go to the pages of JD's engraved book and his P&R book to see pics of these.
Chet15

 

[chet15]

the Julian Hatcher Single Six, #14 has ivory grips with the medallion set back, more than the 3/16", and is relatively flat on the bottom. I watched this piece sell at the RCA Auction in New Orleans in 1986. I do not own it, but have seen it once since then.

Remembering back on this gun when we'd first heard about it, this was after Fred put it on auction I believe, but Fred said he remembered the grips being "different" and I recall him saying there wasn't the normal bevel on the bottom of the grips. I don't know who has this gun now, but I'd sure like to hear what they really look like.
Chet15

 

[rugerguy]

absolutely, and this is why I say "never say never..." Colt grips certainly have been around , a LOT longer, and they did NOT put Colt medallins on them,

On page 225 of the fine James Serven book "Colt Firearms From 1836", originally published in 1954, is a pic of a Colt flattop Target SAA in 22 rimfire with ivories on it that do have Colt medallions.
Chet15

I was of course referring to the 'normal production' ( I left out the word "stag" in my sentence above...) Colt Single Action Army,which Mr Ruger copied so well...yes, the are LOTS of Colt models ,mainly the double action guns that have the medallions, and of course, their 'presentation grips, which mainly came years later, and Nutmeg Sports for one, (Owned by the gun who ran the custom shop years ago, Nick something, I have not spoken to him since the 70's and 80's) anyway, these came later, and represent the more,presentation grips, pearl, ivory etc, had the medallions in some of them........the good ,old fashioned "cowboy" six shooter, didn't have them or they had the "long horn " carved in the palm swell side of the grip panel. Besides, I didn't say "never, nor always......" :roll:


Oh and by the way, in "The Book of Colt Firearms" by Sutherland & Wilson, (first edition printing no less....) on pages 238 through 264, are many Colts pictured and for the MOST part they do not have medallions in the the grips,yes, there are some also, and of course the molded " rubber" (gutta percha) the rampant Colt is molded in...but we digress from the topic of Ruger...I gotta go and rake acorns, before the squirrels try and plant them....damn tree rats......... 8)

OH, and my resident Colt gunslinger (Mr Campbell) has stags on HIS Colt SSA 'carry gun', they too have NO medallion, (but I'd bet he got them from Mr Fishpaw,who set up next to us at one of the display shows many years ago, nice guy....)
gosh I got all them old comic books , and other old printed paper backs with all kinds of "grips" and gun stuff printed in the back pages....gee I wish I had money back then......... :roll:

 

[308longdistance]

Ya know, a nice, clear, side-by-side close-up pic of the various medallions would sure help here . . .

 

[radicalrod]

Hey I got to hold 6,7,8,9,and 10........I was shaking so bad and worried my drool would get on them that I don't remember much about the grips heck add them all up and it still is WAY lower than any serial number I own :lol: :lol: :lol: see ya RR.

 

[weaselmeatgravy]

the Julian Hatcher Single Six, #14 has ivory grips with the medallion set back, more than the 3/16", and is relatively flat on the bottom. I watched this piece sell at the RCA Auction in New Orleans in 1986. I do not own it, but have seen it once since then.

Remembering back on this gun when we'd first heard about it, this was after Fred put it on auction I believe, but Fred said he remembered the grips being "different" and I recall him saying there wasn't the normal bevel on the bottom of the grips. I don't know who has this gun now, but I'd sure like to hear what they really look like.
Chet15

 

[El Numero Uno]

WMG,
Thanks for the picture, I guess that will cause the pot to boil!
Chet15, Who is the "Fred" that put #14 in the auction? I have long been of the opinion that it was Steve Vogel who obtained the #14 from the Hatcher Estate and brought it to New Orleans for the RCA Auction?
Interesting that #14 is credited with being the Testfire piece in the Dope Bag article; it surely must have been one of the Letter Prototypes.

 

[HAWKEYE#28]

My memory is that Lane Pearce bought that gun in New Orleans.........The grips were factory and I , along with the late Lynn Laudise, took the panels off of the gun, under the watchful eye of Steve Vogel, to inspect them before the auction. I consider them prototypes. No reason to stir the pot on those grip panels. 8) BTW, I recall the gun sold for less than 1600...... :?

 

[flatgate]

Interesting that #14 is credited with being the Testfire piece in the Dope Bag article; it surely must have been one of the Letter Prototypes.

Ah, the Rifleman tested the "new" Single-Six twice. First with an Ivory stocked "Letter" gun then a "production" example, s/n 14, fitted with the black "plastic" grips.

The excellent softcover book, titled Ruger, published by the NRA is my source.

flatgate

 

[Tucsonite]

Good Stuff,

I don't have a Library anymore wish I could go look this stuff up, So the NRA says "Black Hard Rubber" and RCA says "Factory Ivory" ? what are we to believe? :wink:

Dan

 

[El Numero Uno]

The explanation about the black rubber grips on #14 in the Dope Bag Photo is that since this was the way production Single Sixes were to be offered, that is the way the Factory(WBR) asked for the piece to be photographed.
That is just the story I have heard.
I do recall #14 selling for either $1600 or $1800. While I had no plan to purchase #14, I did get in a bid at $800, as the Auctioneer was a bit inexperienced and there was not much indication of when he was going to declare an item sold! I have heard that the following years Auction at Reno was such a disaster with this Auctioneer that the auction was suspended and not completed. I was not present; can anyone verify that story?

 

[HAWKEYE#28]

8) Crisply, I have a direct recall and boot marks on my own posterior, self inflicted, as that SN revolver sold for a mere $1500. I was not creative financially...... :? And the buyer said quietly to another, that that was all he had available..........Seems the last I heard, the allegation was that this revolver was on the market for a mere $40,000. I do not have a handle on status at present............... :?:

 

[El Numero Uno]

Michael,
I think you are right as to the $1500 and my recollection was that $1600 may have bought it on my part if I had made the bid!
I had not heard the $40,000 for #14, but do remember Mr. Pearce having been asking near that amount for the 15" .44 Flattop when it was at Tulsa a few years ago.

 

[street]

the Julian Hatcher Single Six, #14 has ivory grips with the medallion set back, more than the 3/16", and is relatively flat on the bottom. I watched this piece sell at the RCA Auction in New Orleans in 1986. I do not own it, but have seen it once since then.

Remembering back on this gun when we'd first heard about it, this was after Fred put it on auction I believe, but Fred said he remembered the grips being "different" and I recall him saying there wasn't the normal bevel on the bottom of the grips. I don't know who has this gun now, but I'd sure like to hear what they really look like.
Chet15

Looking at the information that goes along with this picture, I don't like what I read. It states that "SINGLE-SIX SERIAL #14 WAS ORIGINALLY REVEIW BY MAJOR GENERAL JULIAN HATCHER IN THE APRIL 1953 AMERICAN RIFLEMAN". This was not the case, I couldn't find anything in the April Issue but did find it in the June 1953 issue. See picture below. I know this is nitpicking but theres more that's wrong.

If you look at the picture you can see that the flutes in the cylinder don't go back as far as they do on production Single-Sixes. This means that this gun was not serial number 14 but a prototype serial number A, B, C, D, E, F, If you read the first few lines of the article it states that it is a semi-prouduction model.

And the shipping date for this revolver was 12-29-1953. If it wasn't shipped until 12-1953 how could it show up in the 6-1953 American Rifleman?

If you look at the pictures you can see that the Eagle is 3/16 X 3/16 from the edges. Not the same for #14.

Now for the placement of the Eagle on the #14 gun. 50 pairs of Ivorys were ordered in 10-20-1953 from Superior Pearl & Horn Corp. If the medallions on the first 6 were installed by the manufacturer of the grips then could these have been installed by Superior Pearl & Horn? Maybe they didn't match up with the first ones, and Ruger then decided to install them on any ordered after that. Maybe one of those were installed on Serial number 14!!!!! If 610 pair of Ivory Grips were ordered and 56 pairs the medallen were installed by the manufacture a small %. Then maybe the only one to surface to date was the #14 gun. Maybe more have shown up but "WE EXPERTS" Ha! Ha! dismissed them as being fakes.

 

[weaselmeatgravy]

Street, it looks like you're onto something there at least as far as the reviewed guns being two different examples. Turns out the pic I posted (from Shooting Times 2005 Ruger issue) was wrong on the date of the AR review of #14, the actual issue was March, 1954. This would jibe with the ship date. But the AR article shows #14 with standard plastic panels.

 

[mike722]

I saw a pair of ivory grips at a local show here this morning..the seller touted them as factory..and they were on a nice 44 flattop in the box..but the screw came in from the right, the hardware was black, not brass..to top that off one medallion was a fat-neck eagle and the other a correct skinny-neck.. I didn't ask to see the back sides of the grips..but did get a chance to "school" the seller a bit about why these were not "factory", just a nice pair of real ivory.