Ever get drunk and...

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Jeepnik

Hawkeye
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Dec 16, 2005
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Long ago and far away The crew of an HH43B Husky got drunk. Not unusual, but it had been a less than perfect day. While drinking we were lamenting the limitations of the Husky. That spread to the Huey and even the Super Jolly. Alcohol fuel lamentation led to the design of something better. After all the Osprey was another 16 years out.

Yesterday I got together with the Husky's crew chief. And while some alcohol was consumed neither of us reached the exalted state of our youth. That conversation about the improved air rescue helo came back up. And as we sat there, and with the knowledge of how aircraft design had progressed in 40 years we looked at what was available today. Pretty much the Blackhawk and the Osprey

The Blackhawk while light years ahead of the Husky still suffered from a typical helo configuration. The Osprey itself getting long in the tooth and really just too big and slow.

What we came up with was something about as long as a Blackhawk, but without a tail rotor so the entire length could be cabin. Instead of big ole rotors like the Osprey which makes it wide it would have jet engines. It would keep the pivoting engine nacelle but the wingtip would be able to fold inward once you transitioned to vertical flight narrowing the aircraft for use in smaller LZ's.

That wing, heck the entire aircraft would be composite the fuselage somewhat streamlined and heck since we were dreaming have the ability to fly supersonic.

Imagine flying at high speed to a downed aircrew. Transitioning and landing in a place just big enough to fit. Then once the crew was recovered take off in pure VTOL and once clear transition back to horizontal flight at that same high speed.

Older helos and even the Blackhawk aren't really true VTOL aircraft. Lift is limited. You may have seen footage of a Huey circling an LZ flying in ground effect as it gained enough speed to get the lift to clear the LZ. And doing this while folks were shooting at you.

But since we were updating our dream aircraft we gave it a three person flight crew (cabin crew would still be tailored to the mission) Why three? Well, pilot, co pilot, and weapon systems operator. That's right weapons. Real ones.

Things like effective air defense capability including countermeasures. And ground attack in the form of a chaingun and some good old 2.75 rockets (hey we're old remember and they work). Imagine coming into a hot LZ and being able to help soften it up before landing.

This led to the idea of two ship elements to soften the LZ and while one landed the second continue to provide cover.

Well like I said, the thoughts of a couple of old Airedales who remember the times something better would have been nice to have.
 
Joined
Oct 26, 2006
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No I never did. I like your updated version except the composite shell. I would think bullets would zip right through? Maybe two composite shells with Kevlar in between?
gramps
 
Joined
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I tell folks some times about me in a lifetime long ago and being trained to direct helicopters into a landing zone and how they needed to have an approach line and could not come in straight down.

You would think with what they have done with drones now they could come up with a personnel carrier that can do up down and all around.
 

Mobuck

Hawkeye
Joined
Dec 25, 2007
Messages
6,896
May as well go another step beyond and give it a 'force field' to repel incoming fire.
 

Montelores

Buckeye
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Oct 29, 2009
Messages
1,205
blume357 said:
I tell folks some times about me in a lifetime long ago and being trained to direct helicopters into a landing zone and how they needed to have an approach line and could not come in straight down.

You would think with what they have done with drones now they could come up with a personnel carrier that can do up down and all around.

One of the reasons that a helicopter requires an angled descent path for landing is to avoid a condition called "settling with power." This means that the rotor blades (wings) are flying in air which has already been pushed down by them. A slight forward airspeed allows the rotor to move into "fresh," unaccelerated air. Landing into a headwind can provide this, also.

Additionally, a strictly vertical descent in a helicopter is problematic, because, in the event of an engine or tail-rotor failure, the aircraft might not have enough altitude to perform an "autorotation," which is an emergency procedure for landing. All helicopters have a "height-velocity" chart developed by the manufacturer which shows the "no fly" altitude vs. velocity combinations. This area of the chart can be violated, but at the risk of being unable to recover from a mechanical failure.

Monty

P.S. I'm leaving multi-engine and military operations out of the discussion for simplicity's sake.
 

Fox Mike

Hawkeye
Joined
Nov 17, 2009
Messages
9,986
Montelores said:
One of the reasons that a helicopter requires an angled descent path for landing is to avoid a condition called "settling with power." This means that the rotor blades (wings) are flying in air which has already been pushed down by them. A slight forward airspeed allows the rotor to move into "fresh," unaccelerated air. Landing into a headwind can provide this, also.

Additionally, a strictly vertical descent in a helicopter is problematic, because, in the event of an engine or tail-rotor failure, the aircraft might not have enough altitude to perform an "autorotation," which is an emergency procedure for landing. All helicopters have a "height-velocity" chart developed by the manufacturer which shows the "no fly" altitude vs. velocity combinations. This area of the chart can be violated, but at the risk of being unable to recover from a mechanical failure.
Monty
P.S. I'm leaving multi-engine and military operations out of the discussion for simplicity's sake.

Settling with power occurs when the rate of vertical decent is at least 300 fpm and low forward airspeed. A slower rate of decent will not produce that problem. After twenty+ years in and around helicopters I can say that I have been in an untold number of vertical descents as well as assents.
 

turd

Blackhawk
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Jan 8, 2012
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Very interesting. I always wondered why helicopters didn't land and take off vertically. I thought that was the point of the helicopter.
 
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As for the original title of this post... back in 1977 some time around midnight a friend and I were sitting in the Inner Sanctum Lounge at the Landmark hotel in Myrtle Beach and we actually figured out all the answers to the secrets of the universe. The only problem was the next day neither of us could remember them...

other than '42'. :)
 

Jeepnik

Hawkeye
Joined
Dec 16, 2005
Messages
5,229
blume357 said:
As for the original title of this post... back in 1977 some time around midnight a friend and I were sitting in the Inner Sanctum Lounge at the Landmark hotel in Myrtle Beach and we actually figured out all the answers to the secrets of the universe. The only problem was the next day neither of us could remember them...

other than '42'. :)

How's that hitchhiking working out?
 

Fox Mike

Hawkeye
Joined
Nov 17, 2009
Messages
9,986
This post got me thinking about some of the "old guys" I served with. Tonight I got a message to my old friend that was also the CSM (Command Sergeant Major) of our Cavalry Squadron. He is supposed to call tomorrow. Haven't seen or spoken to him since I retired in '97. Should be an interesting conversation.
 

RSIno1

Hunter
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Sep 17, 2013
Messages
2,159
I wasn't in the service. We had a few one afternoon and came up with this. Ford Festiva with a 220 hp SHO Taurus engine in the back seat.

This is the prototype. I owned it for awhile. Sold it back to Rick Titus who sold it back to Chuck Beck who sold it a couple months ago to a guy in Germany. I sold all the tooling to Speedy Bill at Speedway motors after making the parts for #8.
Eb9jjoRl.jpg


Jay Leno is the only original owner to still one. His was the 3rd one finished and first to be delivered.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XR9SoQU16c
 
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
11,171
Jeepnik said:
blume357 said:
As for the original title of this post... back in 1977 some time around midnight a friend and I were sitting in the Inner Sanctum Lounge at the Landmark hotel in Myrtle Beach and we actually figured out all the answers to the secrets of the universe. The only problem was the next day neither of us could remember them...

other than '42'. :)

How's that hitchhiking working out?


Got your towel?
 
Joined
Oct 26, 2006
Messages
9,324
RSIno1 said:
I wasn't in the service. We had a few one afternoon and came up with this. Ford Festiva with a 220 hp SHO Taurus engine in the back seat.

This is the prototype. I owned it for awhile. Sold it back to Rick Titus who sold it back to Chuck Beck who sold it a couple months ago to a guy in Germany. I sold all the tooling to Speedy Bill at Speedway motors after making the parts for #8.
Eb9jjoRl.jpg


Jay Leno is the only original owner to still one. His was the 3rd one finished and first to be delivered.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XR9SoQU16c
That must have been some good quality alcohol? lol pretty car! I watched Jay Leno’s video, wow! What a car! Good job guys! Ok, I take back some of the nasty things I have said about engineers.
gramps
 
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