bigbillyboy
Hunter
It is as far as I am concerned
Even more of a black sheep in my own family
- Thread starter vito
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HoosierBilly1
Bearcat
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2015
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During the Inquisition, Catholics were capable of lying, killing, harass, etc to anyone who wasn't agreeing with their beliefs. They did so because they were taught that this was the right thing to do. Other Non Catholic Christians did the same to Christians from different denominations too. The same is with Muslims, who kill jews with joy and brag about it. They too were taught that this was ok. Even the Bible tells us that we could be killed by others who think that they were serving God KJV John 16:2. This is only to mention Christians. Politicians and its followers have done worse. Think of Cambodia just to mention one example.
Today we have people react to others opinions and change their friendship, and/or family relationship, because they too have been taught (indoctrinated) that it was ok to do that.
An indoctrinated person cannot redeem himself from the deceipts they have been taught, unless something traumatic makes them see reality.
Of course, this is just my opinion. YMMV.
Today we have people react to others opinions and change their friendship, and/or family relationship, because they too have been taught (indoctrinated) that it was ok to do that.
An indoctrinated person cannot redeem himself from the deceipts they have been taught, unless something traumatic makes them see reality.
Of course, this is just my opinion. YMMV.
contender
Ruger Guru
Since vito has brought up the issue that has apparently seriously divided his family against him is abortion,, I'll discuss this.
President Trump didn't overturn Roe v. Wade,, the US Supreme Court did.
Yes,, President Trump did appoint judges who were part of this decision.
But the issue was NOT abortion,, but FEDERAL oversight,, of things,, and all the US Supreme Court did was return States Rights,, especially where abortion is considered. And it was labeled as an "Overturning of Roe v. Wade" by the media & the media blamed President Trump.
States Rights,, NOT a Federal blanket.
So,, if a person is for or against the issue,,, they need to work with their STATE,,, to make their State Representatives and fellow voters THERE aware of their wishes.
By removing Federally forced issues when it should be a State right,, (along with many other things,) helps reduce government intrusion into personal lives.
President Trump didn't overturn Roe v. Wade,, the US Supreme Court did.
Yes,, President Trump did appoint judges who were part of this decision.
But the issue was NOT abortion,, but FEDERAL oversight,, of things,, and all the US Supreme Court did was return States Rights,, especially where abortion is considered. And it was labeled as an "Overturning of Roe v. Wade" by the media & the media blamed President Trump.
States Rights,, NOT a Federal blanket.
So,, if a person is for or against the issue,,, they need to work with their STATE,,, to make their State Representatives and fellow voters THERE aware of their wishes.
By removing Federally forced issues when it should be a State right,, (along with many other things,) helps reduce government intrusion into personal lives.
It is sad when the disagreements in families over politics go so far. I remember for a year after the 2016 election how many stories came up about couples divorcing after being married for decades having children and some grandchildren. If an election did that they had a bigger problem than just the election between them. As for abortion, which I rarely discuss with anyone, although there are health issues that can come up where it may be needed but mostly it simply a convenience for the living and they make up their justifications.
vito, it's sad to say that you brought a lot of this on yourself. You've told us many times how you'd engage your family members on Facebook (of all places) and intentionally wind them up by pushing their buttons about politics. You thought you would show them a thing or two, but that was never going to happen. You could have quietly gone on with your life and never said a thing.
Now you're stuck with the results. You could have unfollowed them on FB like I did with my extended family, not by marriage, so as not to see their constant liberal madness and conservative hate. The last thing I'd do is engage my own blood in political madness.
You're as opinionated as I am, but I know which battles aren't worth fighting. I'd have a sit down talk with your family, and especially your wife, that there is to be no more political talk in a family gathering setting.
Then it will be on them to live up to it.
I really do hate to hear about this family mess, especially with your wife of so many years
Now you're stuck with the results. You could have unfollowed them on FB like I did with my extended family, not by marriage, so as not to see their constant liberal madness and conservative hate. The last thing I'd do is engage my own blood in political madness.
You're as opinionated as I am, but I know which battles aren't worth fighting. I'd have a sit down talk with your family, and especially your wife, that there is to be no more political talk in a family gathering setting.
Then it will be on them to live up to it.
I really do hate to hear about this family mess, especially with your wife of so many years
My 82 YO Mom believes that everything wrong with the world today is caused by evil rich white Republican men. She retired in '08 just before the crash and watched half of her life savings disappear. From 2016-2020 she was amazed how well she bounced back, etc. 2020-2024 all she did was complain about how expensive things were and how she was spending her savings on food, groceries, and rent. I finally got sick of listening to her and said she got what she voted for. No, she says, that's not why, its the evil rich white Republicans. Somehow rich Democrats are ok. She, like any lib we know, can't explain why that is, they just know it to be true. When you try and reason with them, they either get angry and call you names, or shut down. We can talk, and do often, but we know where the boundaries are and respect them.
My 58 YO sister is addicted to watching videos on the supernatural on social media. That and climate change are the only two 'realities' in the universe she acknowledges. Oxy and alcohol seem to help her with that. We don't talk much as you can imagine.
My 32 YO hippie daughter goes through life in a constant state of agitation and prone to unpredictable bursts of anger, usually brought on by someone who may not believe exactly as she believes, including, maybe especially, me. She cannot be reasoned with, and her boundaries are always moving, conversations with her are tense because she seems to always be looking for something to set her off. Her mid 40's retired Navy husband is more of a lefty than she is, but the militant type, always spewing fake news as if it's fact and constantly trying to start an argument. We don't see them much, tend not to engage with him except very superficial topics, and my wife and I are on pins and needles with my daughter. It sucks.
My wife and her family are very conservative, so we don't have any political tension in our home. We live four miles up a canyon and have few neighbors or friends, we tend not to attend large gatherings, or even support local liberal businesses.
Remember when we could agree to disagree, and people could even engage in some ribbing concerning politics? To me that all ended during the Obama years. Now, the country is so divided politically we can't even have a conversation without screaming each other down. Was that his goal? The media is just as responsible, if not more so. It's interesting to see legacy media struggling financially like it is when it started to become clear that the Democrats weren't going to be the party in power anymore.
Vito my friend, I'm sorry to hear what you are going through, but unfortunately yours is not an isolated case. My hope is that President Trump can do what he wants to do, get the country moving in the right direction, which, ironically, probably 80% of us can agree on until you say Trump is doing it, to the point where even the most afflicted TDS sufferer can't deny it, but the media will have to start reporting facts.
The worst part about your situation for me is that it sounds like you are treated as an outsider in your own home, a home in which you probably built the majority of through a lifetime of work made possible in part by your CONSERVATIVE VALUES. I hate to say it, but you may have some lonely times ahead, go shooting more, get out and do things you want to do, maybe get a gym membership because you might be dating again (only partly kidding)... Arguing with them is pointless, as anyone here with libs in their family can tell you.
My 58 YO sister is addicted to watching videos on the supernatural on social media. That and climate change are the only two 'realities' in the universe she acknowledges. Oxy and alcohol seem to help her with that. We don't talk much as you can imagine.
My 32 YO hippie daughter goes through life in a constant state of agitation and prone to unpredictable bursts of anger, usually brought on by someone who may not believe exactly as she believes, including, maybe especially, me. She cannot be reasoned with, and her boundaries are always moving, conversations with her are tense because she seems to always be looking for something to set her off. Her mid 40's retired Navy husband is more of a lefty than she is, but the militant type, always spewing fake news as if it's fact and constantly trying to start an argument. We don't see them much, tend not to engage with him except very superficial topics, and my wife and I are on pins and needles with my daughter. It sucks.
My wife and her family are very conservative, so we don't have any political tension in our home. We live four miles up a canyon and have few neighbors or friends, we tend not to attend large gatherings, or even support local liberal businesses.
Remember when we could agree to disagree, and people could even engage in some ribbing concerning politics? To me that all ended during the Obama years. Now, the country is so divided politically we can't even have a conversation without screaming each other down. Was that his goal? The media is just as responsible, if not more so. It's interesting to see legacy media struggling financially like it is when it started to become clear that the Democrats weren't going to be the party in power anymore.
Vito my friend, I'm sorry to hear what you are going through, but unfortunately yours is not an isolated case. My hope is that President Trump can do what he wants to do, get the country moving in the right direction, which, ironically, probably 80% of us can agree on until you say Trump is doing it, to the point where even the most afflicted TDS sufferer can't deny it, but the media will have to start reporting facts.
The worst part about your situation for me is that it sounds like you are treated as an outsider in your own home, a home in which you probably built the majority of through a lifetime of work made possible in part by your CONSERVATIVE VALUES. I hate to say it, but you may have some lonely times ahead, go shooting more, get out and do things you want to do, maybe get a gym membership because you might be dating again (only partly kidding)... Arguing with them is pointless, as anyone here with libs in their family can tell you.
The political divide has never been this great before, and it's not a good thing. Most of my family, wife, kids, grandkids, are on the same page, but many friends are not. First of all, none of us are totally right, sorry but it's true. I've found that it's best not to even discuss it with friends, because if they believe as you do, there is no need. If they believe different than you no amount of discussion is gonna move the needle. Part of that is because we tend to crawl into our own silos. During a major event, like January 6th, you can watch one news media for 30 minutes and then watch the opposing news media for 30 minutes and it's like you are living in two totally different universes. And too many of us only watch the channel that tends to agree with our persuasion. And the politicians make their living off of it, very few of them are truly genuine, they are thinking of their own well being.
Here's what ya gotta keep in mind, about 49.5% of the population feel one way, and 50.5% of the population feels the opposite. So when someone tells you that they have a clear mandate, well hardly. As for me, I vote and then I don't say much too others, because it just isn't worth it.
Here's what ya gotta keep in mind, about 49.5% of the population feel one way, and 50.5% of the population feels the opposite. So when someone tells you that they have a clear mandate, well hardly. As for me, I vote and then I don't say much too others, because it just isn't worth it.
My daughter, far left of me, professed on facebook during the first Trump campaign if she knew of anybody voting for Trump, she would never talk to them again. She has kept that promise and has not since talked to me. We've not even met her child, our grandchild. I do not participate in facebook in any way, nor have I ever chased her down to profess my beliefs. It doesn't matter, she has an axe to grind and facebook fuels her hate. Roughly 50% of our very large and previously loving family is estranged from the other half. All over facebook or over the family website. Folks are vicious there too.
Again, I do not participate in facebook, nor have I ever. It doesn't matter. Half the family hates me just because I don't join with them and their side on facebook. Darned if I do, darned if I don't.
I have a sister that I've drifted from. Much because of politics. I don't share my beliefs with her until she forces me into a corner. Then I'm wrong. I have friends that I also don't talk politics with, until they force me into a corner and they force my opinions out. I'm wrong again. I'm not allowed to have personal opinions, but they are constantly forcing their opinions on me.
I hate facebook. And I cannot imagine attacking my own family via facebook would be impersonal or would not cause pushback. And it would certainly not be humorous.
.
Again, I do not participate in facebook, nor have I ever. It doesn't matter. Half the family hates me just because I don't join with them and their side on facebook. Darned if I do, darned if I don't.
I have a sister that I've drifted from. Much because of politics. I don't share my beliefs with her until she forces me into a corner. Then I'm wrong. I have friends that I also don't talk politics with, until they force me into a corner and they force my opinions out. I'm wrong again. I'm not allowed to have personal opinions, but they are constantly forcing their opinions on me.
I hate facebook. And I cannot imagine attacking my own family via facebook would be impersonal or would not cause pushback. And it would certainly not be humorous.
.
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That is sad. The hatred from the election of 2008 forward has grown to absolute insanity. I see it on my own family or I should say in my wife's family. I had a Trump 2024 sign in our yard and her sister and her husband voiced their displeasure over it. I told them that at their house they can put any kind of sign up that they want. At our house we put up what we want. They still talk to me because I have gone to their house to fix things and still do if my wife asks me to.
davevabch
Hunter
- Joined
- May 29, 2011
- Messages
- 2,662
Sorry Vito, but you sound arrogant and bull headed with your family. As the oldest you should be a leader for instilling love and harmony and be above ramming your opinion of politics down their throats. Perhaps you should take a new approach to understand they have a different opinion and respect the fact that is what America is about and Family is about family and set a cease fire mentality. In your post you brought up how your wife is not happy because Trump was elected knowing very well that would ignite a argument and totally destroy a good conversation with your son, that you and him were sharing on the good times.
On the other hand, your son should understand how you feel and have more respect toward you his father. He should have just given a chuckle on your comment and made lite it. You can teach a old dog new tricks as they say. Being right politically means nothing when it comes to family. One day you may be gone, they maybe gone. Focus on family, love, togetherness. Assume the leadership Vito, it is not to late.
On the other hand, your son should understand how you feel and have more respect toward you his father. He should have just given a chuckle on your comment and made lite it. You can teach a old dog new tricks as they say. Being right politically means nothing when it comes to family. One day you may be gone, they maybe gone. Focus on family, love, togetherness. Assume the leadership Vito, it is not to late.
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Lt92
Single-Sixer
Exactly this. The results will speak for themselves. During the interim, he can only love on them and pray their eyes are opened...that old saying" you can choose your friends but not your family" comes to mind.
Lt92
Single-Sixer
If there is any comfort in knowing you are Not alone, please understand just how many families are facing the same pushback.
DJT will either succeed or not...time will tell, and the great thing about the USA is in 4 yrs we get to choose something different if that is what the majority wishes. And now that we have a better understanding of how the voting process can be manipulated, Americans better understand how to counter these efforts to ensure "more accurate" elections.in the meantime, try to focus on what united you as a family, and leave DJT out of the conversation. I have a beloved sister who has lived on "the Hill" as it's called, for nearly 40 yrs...we simply avoid Anything concerning DJT...when she slips and drops a bomb, I ignore it and just change the subject to something benign. I suspect for the sake of your family's unity, you "all" may have to adopt the same policy.
Prayers for you...it ain't easy...but we were Not promised it would be easy.
rwp315
Single-Sixer
Vito,
I understand. Immediate family members are ok in our family. Extended not so much. Fortunately our daughter and son in law are conservative fighters, one a Union member and one once a teacher. They don't fall for the leftist hype.
Me and my wife's grandparents were all hard working individuals all surviving the depression successfully. And we learned from them and taught our daughter about aspects of it.
I was fortunate to travel world wide because of my job and showed our family pictures, video when able and basic info on the countries I visited.
Hang in there as this next four years may change their attitudes as our country becomes a safer place.
Be Safe
I never discuss politics or religion...!
p.s. I have heard the liberal (and conservative) politicians have been accused of rape and even contributed to homicide; but I'm no expert, so I don't engage in discussions....some even lie about those things.
I never discuss politics or religion...!
J.
p.s. I have heard the liberal (and conservative) politicians have been accused of rape and even contributed to homicide; but I'm no expert, so I don't engage in discussions....some even lie about those things.
I never discuss politics or religion...!
J.
pisgah
Buckeye
They are mentally ill, so you'll never change their minds. Just smile and enjoy the baseless, irrational anxiety...
My views on the world, politics specifically included, are always fact-based and determined by logic. That's how I roll.
One sleepless night in my bunk in Thailand in 1972, while staring at the ceiling, it dawned on me that many other people's world views are NOT based on facts. Neither did they attempt to apply logic when determining their views on things. In fact, they chose to avoid being exposed to facts.
Humans' facts vs feelings orientation is, in fact, hard-wired into our brains. Check out the Myers Briggs (MB) personality test website. The MB Personality Profile test's foundation is, among other things, based on the reality that each human's beliefs and behaviors are determined by that their personality's fact vs feelings orientation. [MB test results say I'm an ENTJ if you're curious.] [See link below for the actual test - it takes all of 10 minutes to complete.]
My wife is entirely feelings-based, and she disagrees with me on all things political. I occasionally ask her to "give it your best shot - convert me to your beliefs." Being incapable of holding logical discourse, she gets angry whenever I ask her to defend her beliefs.
So, we don't talk about politics at any level.
The good news from Myers Briggs is that this fact vs feelings orientation can shift over time. I think Ronald Reagan had that in mind when he told his "Democrat vs Republican kittens" story. [See below for the video.]
For Vito and others who feel pushed away by relatives, take heart. You're not alone. Myers Briggs research notes that "fact-based" personalities comprise the minority of humans. BUT...those same fact-based individuals are much more likely to be leaders. So...I'd prefer to lead an organization that increases the likelihood that my family will live a happy life than, in the alternative, be a follower of an organization that is hell-bent on the creation and global sharing of misery.
Vito - George Patton was not liked by his troops. But he knew they'd go through hell for him because they believed he'd give them the best chance of going home alive. That's leadership - Col.
One sleepless night in my bunk in Thailand in 1972, while staring at the ceiling, it dawned on me that many other people's world views are NOT based on facts. Neither did they attempt to apply logic when determining their views on things. In fact, they chose to avoid being exposed to facts.
Humans' facts vs feelings orientation is, in fact, hard-wired into our brains. Check out the Myers Briggs (MB) personality test website. The MB Personality Profile test's foundation is, among other things, based on the reality that each human's beliefs and behaviors are determined by that their personality's fact vs feelings orientation. [MB test results say I'm an ENTJ if you're curious.] [See link below for the actual test - it takes all of 10 minutes to complete.]
My wife is entirely feelings-based, and she disagrees with me on all things political. I occasionally ask her to "give it your best shot - convert me to your beliefs." Being incapable of holding logical discourse, she gets angry whenever I ask her to defend her beliefs.
So, we don't talk about politics at any level.
The good news from Myers Briggs is that this fact vs feelings orientation can shift over time. I think Ronald Reagan had that in mind when he told his "Democrat vs Republican kittens" story. [See below for the video.]
For Vito and others who feel pushed away by relatives, take heart. You're not alone. Myers Briggs research notes that "fact-based" personalities comprise the minority of humans. BUT...those same fact-based individuals are much more likely to be leaders. So...I'd prefer to lead an organization that increases the likelihood that my family will live a happy life than, in the alternative, be a follower of an organization that is hell-bent on the creation and global sharing of misery.
Vito - George Patton was not liked by his troops. But he knew they'd go through hell for him because they believed he'd give them the best chance of going home alive. That's leadership - Col.
"If you could reason with a liberal there wouldn't be any liberals"
"Liberalism is a social disorder"
"TDS is real and so far has been incurable"
We've all read these phrases here many times and some of us have communicated them to the rest of us. Over simplified and cliche'? Yeah, but I think most of us agree with them because there is a lot of truth to them.
I think that social media, the left leaning press, pier pressure and the zero consequence society we live in have become more powerful in shaping young people's minds than our examples of hard work and strong moral conservative values. Vito seems to want to 'save' his family by trying to get them to see things his way. I've come to the conclusion that I'm powerless to change them and talking with them about it only makes things worse. I don't know if that makes him bullheaded and me a quitter, and I don't know which of us is right, but it's likely we both have some regrets.
If you haven't seen the melt down from that wack job Selena Gomez about deportations you should look it up, because people like her and Taylor Swift are who many of your kids and grand kids consider role models now.
"Liberalism is a social disorder"
"TDS is real and so far has been incurable"
We've all read these phrases here many times and some of us have communicated them to the rest of us. Over simplified and cliche'? Yeah, but I think most of us agree with them because there is a lot of truth to them.
I think that social media, the left leaning press, pier pressure and the zero consequence society we live in have become more powerful in shaping young people's minds than our examples of hard work and strong moral conservative values. Vito seems to want to 'save' his family by trying to get them to see things his way. I've come to the conclusion that I'm powerless to change them and talking with them about it only makes things worse. I don't know if that makes him bullheaded and me a quitter, and I don't know which of us is right, but it's likely we both have some regrets.
If you haven't seen the melt down from that wack job Selena Gomez about deportations you should look it up, because people like her and Taylor Swift are who many of your kids and grand kids consider role models now.
Yaworski
Buckeye
- Joined
- May 22, 2016
- Messages
- 1,339
To all those who say that Vito is in the wrong, that he should have taken measures to avoid politics. Maybe, but that's right out of the liberal's playbook.
THEY believe that they should be able to say WHATEVER they want on any subject but if you express a differing opinion, YOU are being hostile and confrontational and get attacked. So to avoid hostilities, you sit and listen to their screed or you just avoid contact.
THEY believe that they should be able to say WHATEVER they want on any subject but if you express a differing opinion, YOU are being hostile and confrontational and get attacked. So to avoid hostilities, you sit and listen to their screed or you just avoid contact.
