DONE! removing cylinder with too-long cartridge (photo)

[coyote]

regarding a "new varquero montado".

a 360 grain LFN 45LC cartridge, which was slightly longer than the cylinder, was inserted into the cylinder. it was then rotated, until the bullet nose touched the side of the barrel extension, but couldn't rotate past that.

of course the cylinder doesn't reverse to allow me to unload it.

removing the basepin didn't help either because the bullet nose hits the barrel extension when i try to drop the cylinder out.

i then removed the lower frame and the hammer crosspin, but this still doesn't allow the cylinder to reverse spin. (see pix below)

i still can't get the cartridge out.

is there a way of allowing the cylinder to rotate in the reverse direction?

suggestions?

WITH YOUR HELP, ITS DONE! THANKS EVERYONE!!!

 

[flatgate]

Yes, remove the rest of the lockwork.

OK, there are at least 50 guys here wondering why in the heck are you playing with a way over weight/over length cartridge in a gun designed for the classic 255 gr. bullet?

Curious Flatgate

 

[coyote]

Yes, remove the rest of the lockwork.
OK, there are at least 50 guys here wondering why in the heck are you playing with a way over weight/over length cartridge in a gun designed for the classic 255 gr. bullet?
Curious Flatgate

took me a bit to figure out how to get the rest apart but i did it. GREAT!!! the cartridge is safely out.

(i'm an old 1911 shooter and don't know Varqueros very well. i'm just starting out with SAA-style peashooters)

to answer your second question (a good one): safety!

i planned to only use the 360 loads in a marlin lever. those loads would be loaded hotter than the montado should take (i feed it 255gr Lasercasts). and if they don't function in the montado, i can't mistakenly load and fire them.

i was just checking to be sure they wouldn't fully rotate but didn't take into account that i wouldn't be able to drop the cylinder to empty it. my bad...

thnx guys!!!!!!

 

[J Miller]

coyote, that's doing it the hard way. Just a few minutes of a look see would have told you that.

Well, now you know how a New Vaquero comes apart and goes back together.

Joe

 

[coyote]

seems i've spent my life learning everything the hard way.

but yes, now i sure do!

 

[Jimbo357mag]

seems i've spent my life learning everything the hard way.

but yes, now i sure do!

Welcome to the forum. I think we have all had a flub or two sooooo don't feel bad. I'm not admitting to anything.

...Jimbo

 

[Sonnytoo]

From your pix, it looks like the bullet nose overlapped the barrel extension by no more than .020" or so. If true, I guess I would have handled this without disassembling the gun. But you gave a good object lesson to all, and hopefully you were able to polish some of those scratchy parts before you put it all back together.
Sonnytoo

 

[Ale-8(1)]

Gosh, I'm glad I've never done anything like that.

Yeah . . . right . . .



Thanks for sharing.

 

[coyote]

hey guys, thnx for the warm welcome.

if you don't mind, i have another question about solving this problem:

when i finally stripped all the major parts out, i still couldn't get the cylinder out. not until i unscrewed the teeny tiny alan-headed cap (screw) hidden under the transfer bar. only then could i reverse the spin of the cylinder.

this screw appears to be the new-fangled "reverse indexing pawl" (which sure isn't present on my Colt or Turnbull SAAs).

if that is indeed what it is, it appears i didn't need to take everything apart to reverse the spin, i just needed to back the screw out far enough to allow the plunger to back off the cylinder.

although i couldn't get at it easily (the hammer is in direct line with the screw), with patience and a tiny angled alan wrench, i think it could be done even in the field, should i ever have this problem again (ie: should a bullet jump its crimp).

does this sound right to you guys???

 

[coyote]

From your pix, it looks like the bullet nose overlapped the barrel extension by no more than .020" or so. If true, I guess I would have handled this without disassembling the gun....

correct.

ok sonny2, i'll bite: how would you have handled it?
(i gave thought to filing the top of the bullet until it was flush, but didn't want to chance dinging up the cylinder face. besides, i needed to learn what made this firearm tick)

 

[Sonnytoo]

Well, Coyote, I'll tell ya. I didn't intend for you to write back, as I had posted what follows below and then had deleted it, so as not to invite the flaming that is sure to follow. Just to clarify...WHAT YOU DID WAS PROPER AND SAFE!
I've made the same mistake you did, with an overly-long cartridge, and have often been victimized before by bullet creep due to an improper sizing die.
In your case, you had properly crimped a LFN and no creep was there; just overly-long for your cylinder. It would be tough to tap the bullet in, but the crimp groove is likely 0.050" or so, so you might have a little slop where the case mouth fits into the crimping groove. And how good was your crimp? Also, some moulds throw bullets with rounded (rather than square) shoulders on the crimping groove, which used to drive Elmer nuts. But in your case, rounded corners on the crimping groove would have made the job easier.
I would have tapped a bit on the nose of the LFN, (Oh, how gently) to deform the nose a bit, and partially to drive the bullet into the case. 0.020" isn't a whole lot to get rid of.
Your "filing" idea is decent. I have a roll of one mil stainless steel stock, 2 inches wide, that I use just for cases where I might ding the blue. I generally use this shim stock for protection when I'm sanding handgun grips...in place on the gun.
I might have tried using a small brass punch, a tiny blade from a scroll saw, perhaps touched the bullet tip with a soldering iron, or debulked it with a tiny drillbit in my Dremel. But, watch out for Dremels.
AS LONG AS YOUR PRIMER WAS PROPERLY SEATED, this shouldn't be dangerous. I've done this, both the overly-long bullet and the creeped bullet, and will do it again as necessary.
We welcome you to our forum. A bunch of nice folks; we often disagree but hey, it's also instructive for me most of the time.
Sonnytoo

 

[coyote]

hey s2, thnx for that input.

it was tightly crimped in a nice deep groove. tapping on it probably wouldn't have done anything except make me too nervous. i also thought of melting it but even that worried me a bit. but i get your ideas.

in the end, taking it apart also provided me with a nice education on the new varqueros. all's well that ends well.

signed,
mr. chicken

 

[Sonnytoo]

in the end, taking it apart also provided me with a nice education on the new varqueros. all's well that ends well.
signed,
mr. chicken

Hey, I'm the chicken. If I take my gun apart, I might never get it together again.
You did the ONLY thing you could and should do. Now, the next time you have some spare time, you pull that thing apart and polish "appropriate" surfaces and your action will be smooth as silk.
I do have a couple of guns that, like yours, are picky when it comes to overall cartridge length. It makes a fellow a bit nervous; you have to look at the commercial bullet specs such as "crimp groove to nose" distance to determine whether they will fit. I like to have a good 0.030" of free space beyond my bullet tip when loaded in the gun, just for those unforseen instances when bullet creep raises its ugly head.
Sonnytoo

 

[berettapistols]

Great Thread!!
When I saw the pic , I thought to cut the LRN down with a razor blade or "Shave" it down a bit.. Maybe even a Exacto Knife..
All good ideas that I read..
Congrats, Alot of "Gunsmiths" get stuff like that all the time..
Gary

 

[rugerguy]

Gary, you hit it on the nose, we did it just that way, Xacto knife, the "tapping " is just too scary a thought ( but have done that too.......) then just good old 'force' "swaged it out of the way....and of course take them apart.........all in a day s work, the time of the month and the position of the sun on any given day.......

good job, did it the 'safe way" and learned "something" at the same time....