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soufpaw

Bearcat
Joined
Nov 25, 2007
Messages
13
Location
Southwest Pennsylvania
Why:

Why does the new model single actions have the serious drag line on
the cylinders and the old models didn't?

Why does the new model blackhawks have the wooden grips with the
reddish tint? Ugly, fake wood looking.

Why can't the New Model Blackhawk .30 Caliber carbine be offered in a
6.5" barrel. I went to the added of expense of having mine done.

Why do all of the single actions have such atrocious trigger pulls?

Why my Stainless Bisley .45LC could barely hit a basketball at 25 yards?
when my others 2" group?

Why doesn't the custom shop work with you? Why do they call it a
custom shop at all?

Why is the whole shooting industry slowly turning into a hill of beans
one day at a time?


Soufpaw
 

BlkHawk73

Hunter
Joined
Dec 30, 1999
Messages
4,417
Location
Maine
There simply isn't enough market demand for the .30 carbine chambering to warrant more variations. The offered model doesn't exactly have high production as there isn't the demand.


Not every gun shoots every load as you want. Try diff loads or adjusting your grip. For some, the Bisley doesn't fit them well, hence diminished shooting performance.

Most don't have issues with factory grips so providing nicer ones at an added expense wouldn't make for a wise marketing move. There's plenty of aftermarket ones available to suit anyone's taste.

There is no "custom shop". Again, plenty of folks doing outstanding work on Rugers.

Buy a Ruger and you get a quality, rugged firearms for a good price. You can alter them as you desire. If what you want specifically isn't made, go aftermarket, custom or a differemt route altogether. You cannot realistically expect everytjing to be available just as you want. That's also what is bringing the industry down a bit. Ppl expect premier and perfection yet are unwilling to pay for those higher levels.
 

Rainman

Blackhawk
Joined
Mar 13, 2009
Messages
505
Location
Land of the Cherokee , Georgia
Just a passing thought- check the throats on your 45 Bisley. Some are undersized which causes accuracy to deteriorate. I had forum member CAS (cylindersmith.com) do a throat job on my gun and it shoots awesome afterwards. I have a 45 Bisley now that needs his attention.

Dan
 

Kyhunt

Single-Sixer
Joined
Jun 4, 2008
Messages
233
Location
IL
I only have 2 Rugers. Gp100 5 inch and a 3 inch sp101. All I have to say is that they both have me hooked on Rugers. I can find nothing with either to gripe about.
 

Yosemite Sam

Hunter
Joined
Mar 18, 2002
Messages
2,113
Location
Cape Cod, MA, USA
The "drag line" thing is well documented. It's due to the NM action. There are ways around it.

As much as I agree with the OP (and I do, to a point), I also have to accept bisleyfan41's position: I've seen too many gun companies start "silly stuff" with having 57 varieties of their gun trying to offer every customization option imaginable, only to see quality, availability, and parts availability go down.

I do agree that we've got too many bean counters in the industry at this time, but I feel that way about most industries. And if you look back in history it's chock full of companies "cost reducing" their guns. That's why the older ones are always in demand.

If Ruger put nice wood grips on their guns, had beautiful deep blue finishes, offered every barrel length and grip combination in every caliber, the guns would probably cost $1K. Just like most other steel and wood guns these days.

-- Sam

P.S. Rainman is correct, too: Check those throats!
 

Jimbo357mag

Hawkeye
Joined
Feb 22, 2007
Messages
10,137
Location
So. Florida
soufpaw":1b5h8uw2 said:
Why does the new model blackhawks have the wooden grips with the
reddish tint? Ugly, fake wood looking.

Soufpaw

Would you rather have PLASTIC grips? :roll: :wink:


...Jimbo
 

StanMemTn

Single-Sixer
Joined
Feb 3, 2009
Messages
214
Location
Memphis, TN
I'm sympathetic to the OP and hope that Ruger is aware of the frustration of some shooters as fair criticism can lead to new and great innovations.

I've never heard a great answer to the question of the NM cylinder line, other than, "You'd have to ask Bill Ruger." It's not a major problem, but I would like to know the why.
The grip problem doesn't bother me (I have a 50th anniversary model with black plastic grips) as by the time the new gun buzz wears off, I'll probably be able to spring for a set of smooth wood custom stocks to MY satisfaction.
My .357 shoots pretty great out of the box; I probably wouldn't be thrilled to have to send a new gun to have the cylinder reamed, but given the affordable and reportedly great work that CAS does, I can't say that would bother me too much.
I love the trigger as delivered on my new gun; I love it more after bending both legs of the trigger return spring (without having to do any more than remove the grip panels I might add).

All in all, the pros outweigh the cons I think. Ruger allows those of use with a minimum of experience or expendable income (or both) to take up shooting affordably and with a great deal of confidence that neither our money nor time will be wasted.
This forum demonstrates daily that the company manages to satisfy the needs (and sometimes wants) of a bunch of experts, collectors, and shootists.

Not a bad days work on the part of what is at the end of the day a private company that caters to the average shooter (I don't think they have ever posed as a custom shop, I might be mistaken).

JMHO,
-Stephen

P.S.
Happy shooting everybody

P.P.S.
Soufpaw, PLEASE don't just take up golf. I mean, let's not do anything CRAZY. :lol:
 

contender

Ruger Guru
Joined
Sep 18, 2002
Messages
21,223
Location
Lake Lure NC USA
Well, the drag line. That issue has been addressed above. That's why many of us prefer the Old Models.
Wood grips; Plastic is coming,,, it's called keeping the costs down so the average joe can afford the guns. I wish the NM's I've gotten lately to shoot had been shipped with wooden grips instead of plastic. I made 5 sets of wooden grips for myself. However,,, now I'm MUCH happier & have the satisfaction of a custom looking gun!
30 carbine; When it was introduced it was when a LOT of military surplus ammo was available & the barrel length of 7-1/2" was found to be the best option w/o going longer. Also see the above answer about expenses.
Actions; If you want a glass smooth, custom feeling action,, pay a MUCH higher retail for Ruger to employ many more people to give you that. Then think of the lawsuits from the folks who are too stupid to not appreciate a smooth, clean crisp trigger & the accidents they will have.
The Bisley; As noted above,,, it may not be the gun,, it could be the ammo or the shooter. Have you had it tested by other folks & with different types of ammo???
There isn't a Ruger custom shop. They DID have a custom engraving shop for a while,,, but the $$$$$ wasn't being made like they needed to keep it alive.
The shooting industry;
It's a business. They are in business to make money. It comes to counting beans sometimes. Look at GM recently. They diversified so much they couldn't stay afloat. (I'm a big GM fan too.) Look at Ford, they didn't spread out too much & didn't need a government bailout. Now look at how many gun related companies who are no longer with us. They died trying to "give the customer what they wanted,,, no matter the cost." Where is High Standard,,, Colt production revolvers,, Winchester lever actions,,, Iver Johnson,,, & many others??? You HAVE to count beans & MAKE A PROFIT to survive.

So if you expect a smooth, highly finished, smooth slick fantastic SA revolver,,,, buy a hand fitted Freedom Arms. Enjoy the price as they are worth it,,,,, & you are paying for it.
 

Dale53

Blackhawk
Joined
Aug 29, 2007
Messages
925
Location
Hamilton, Ohio USA
Why:

>>>Why does the new model single actions have the serious drag line on the cylinders and the old models didn't?<<<

The newer safer action makes the elimination of that more difficult.

>>>Why does the new model blackhawks have the wooden grips with the reddish tint? Ugly, fake wood looking.<<<

Cost

>>>Why can't the New Model Blackhawk .30 Caliber carbine be offered in a 6.5" barrel. I went to the added of expense of having mine done.<<<

Not enough demand for the .30 Carbine chambering. Frankly, I am surprised they even offer this caliber.

>>>Why do all of the single actions have such atrocious trigger pulls?<<<

There is absolutely NO excuse for this. S&W has been putting near perfect triggers on their guns for over 100 years (seldom ever see one with a bad trigger). This COULD be corrected at the factory and should be. It would be easy to have a clean trigger, leave it a bit heavy to satisfy liability concerns (which are mostly bogus) and then we could pop the grips, bend the legs of the trigger return spring and EVERYONE would be happy!

>>>Why my Stainless Bisley .45LC could barely hit a basketball at 25 yards? when my others 2" group?<<<

You need to slug the cylinder throats and see if they are too small (.4525" is perfect). This has been addressed by another poster above. It they are too small, then correct them - early .45 Colts have oft times had too small throats causing serious accuracy problems. My Bisley Vaquero shoots extremely well (well under 2" at 25 yards).

>>>Why doesn't the custom shop work with you? Why do they call it a custom shop at all?<<<

As far as I know they don't have a custom shop.

>>>Why is the whole shooting industry slowly turning into a hill of beans one day at a time?<<<

I don't see this at all. I have recent revolvers from Ruger, S&W, and Taurus. They are all VERY desirable.

FWIW
Dale53
 

MagnumM56

Bearcat
Joined
Aug 6, 2009
Messages
87
Location
Republic of the Rio Grande-TX
My attitude is that every time God Blesses me with the financial wherewithall to afford one or more of these great Guns which is not s often as before and the good health to go shoot the heck out of it-I am a happy man
 

Jimbo357mag

Hawkeye
Joined
Feb 22, 2007
Messages
10,137
Location
So. Florida
soufpaw":2tk8vpoz said:
Why my Stainless Bisley .45LC could barely hit a basketball at 25 yards?
when my others 2" group?


Soufpaw

Could also be if the gun is new that the barrel needs to be broken-in. My stainless Redhawk took about 500 jacketed rounds before it started shooting accurately. It was almost like night and day. :shock:

...Jimbo
 

Yosemite Sam

Hunter
Joined
Mar 18, 2002
Messages
2,113
Location
Cape Cod, MA, USA
I'm betting the accuracy thing is due to the throats. My .45 Colt Bisley had the same problem. That problem I will lay right at Ruger's door, as it could be solved simply by doing their job right (ie, making the holes the right size). That's just dumb.

On the other hand, I have a hard time understanding the "atrocious [single action] trigger pulls" comment(s). I've had a half dozen Ruger single actions, and none of them have required much pull weight, nor have had huge amounts of creep. At worst I've disconnected one of the trigger spring legs. You want "atrocious" try a Glock. ;)

Now, I'm thinking that way back when (1973?) they introduced the New Model, they probably could/should have put a little more "engineering" into the solution to come up with something that didn't mar the guns (turn ring). But I don't know all the details that went into that decision. Likely they engineered the "fix" so it could be retrofitted into the older guns, and this precluded dropping the bolt. Worst case, you can have the New Model guns fitted with a free spin pawl which will eliminate the ring - and the click.

-- Sam
 

Onty

Single-Sixer
Joined
Dec 17, 2000
Messages
392
contender":6kitablx said:
The shooting industry;
It's a business. They are in business to make money. It comes to counting beans sometimes…You HAVE to count beans & MAKE A PROFIT to survive.

So if you expect a smooth, highly finished, smooth slick fantastic SA revolver,,,, buy a hand fitted Freedom Arms. Enjoy the price as they are worth it,,,,, & you are paying for it.

The real problem in industry is that knowledgeable and experienced folks were pushed aside by short-sighted greedy managers and bean counters that know nothing about anything, cutting cost to save pennies and ruining products that cost company and customers thousands, and on the long term directly responsible for downturn and collapse of manufacturing industry.

Example; 2000 Malibu and intake manifold gasket, mediocre (at least) design and manufacturing of computer and other related systems so engine will rev up to 2000 rpm on hot weather without touching gas pedal. Result; GM and Chrysler went almost belly up, while at the very same time Toyota plant in Cambridge (Ontario, Canada) was ALL THE TIME working overtime to ship out Lexus models. Customers were WAITING for their cars.

My advice to Ruger folks: first thing first; get shooters on Board of Directors and take a long, hard look on reports from your Customer Service and QA department, and make sure that somebody checks these forums regularly. Improve design and manufacturing where is required in order to get where you had been when making OM SBH, and charge more for your products. In other words, take a long hard look on BFR revolvers and let us know when you are going to offer us 5-bore SA revolvers and 45 Cal NM BH with cylinders consistently bored on .452-.453, just few examples. FYI, the one and only reason I am not purchasing BFR revolver is because it’s not available in Bisley configuration and I cannot install NM Bisley grip on it (another example of very good revolver and somebody’s oversight if not stubbornness). If BFR is available with Bisley style grip, I wouldn’t bother to look at any of your NM BH or SBH revolvers. Sorry, but that’s my opinion; improve your product and I wouldn’t think about BFR any more.

Yes, I would still buy your revolver, but I am already counting on 30-50% of purchasing price for a smith to go over it. However, I would rather wait for your GOOD revolver with higher price at my local store, than wait for your current revolver with current price tag while you or local smith fixing it.

Just my 0.2 cents…
 

Hokie73

Bearcat
Joined
Mar 27, 2008
Messages
39
Location
S.W. Louisiana
It is still (mostly) a free country. If you people don't like Ruger revolvers, don't buy them. Buy something else. What, you don't like anything else either! Not surprising. That's okay too.
What kind of cheese would you like with that whine? Do you have instructions on where to send flowers when that lock on that S&W actuates itself?
 

Onty

Single-Sixer
Joined
Dec 17, 2000
Messages
392
Hokie73":2uwx6u4r said:
It is still (mostly) a free country. If you people don't like Ruger revolvers, don't buy them. Buy something else. What, you don't like anything else either! Not surprising. That's okay too.
What kind of cheese would you like with that whine? Do you have instructions on where to send flowers when that lock on that S&W actuates itself?

I see your point. Well, if someone wants to have pile of low priced not so well done revolvers, and happy with .448-.449 cylinders and loose cylinder bolts, barrels with heavy scores and chattering marks in rifling...

As for instructions about sending flowers and S&W self actuating lock, you are addressing wrong guy. When you see M27 (N-frame!!!) loose, you will understand why I do not have any S&W. Maybe M657-3, one with endurance package. But without MIM parts. Here is why http://www.clementscustomguns.com/smith ... lvers.html

Personally, I would rather have for the same money 10 well made revolvers instead of 15 mediocre ones.

BTW, that's the cheese I would like to have, here is what Ruger use to make. Get one in your hands and you will understand my point;

SB01.jpg
SB02.jpg
SB03.jpg


Interesting statement:
...Ruger had listened to the urging of shooters...
Whole article here: http://gunblast.com/Super_Blackhawk.htm
 

ElrodCod

Single-Sixer
Joined
Jan 17, 2007
Messages
105
Location
Rogersville, Tennessee
I understand the need to make a profit but there are a couple things that Ruger can and should do that won't impact the bottom line. Changing the geometry of the hammer/sear interface to give a creep free crisp 3 pound let off is one and figuring out a way to consistently mount the front sight top dead center is the other. Sending out any old crap & relying on customer service to sort it out isn't the way to boost the margin.
The Ruger of today isn't the same company it was 30 years ago. I had one of those early Super Blackhawks; they made a quality product then. Now they're barely a step up from Charter Arms. It's been suggested that we shouldn't buy Rugers if we don't like them. The problem is that I used to like them and still want to like them and will buy them if the company ever gets it's act together. That's not likely in the current political envirenment where people are buying up everything they can while they can. There's no incentive for Ruger to change. So I'll follow Hokie73's sage advice and not buy any more new Rugers.
 
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