Disappointed in results of my first ever handloads

[BeagleDog]

I recently got a TC Encore in 25.06 which will be my javelina gun this spring. I shot 16 rounds through it for fun but today I wanted to sight in good for the hunt. I had exactly 4 rounds of factory ammo left, Remington Express Core-Lokt in 100gr PSP. In the first target picture these three shots were at 25 yrds with the factory ammo. I said (For me anyway) looks good to go and went out to a 100yds. On the 2nd photo, the first shot, and last factory load was dead on almost exactly 2" high which was just about where I wanted it. OK, now I switch over to my very first ever attempt at handloading. The batch I worked up was 117gr Sierra BT, over 50.5 grains of IMR 4350 using Federal primers. I realize I was using a heavier bullet but the results were totally unexpected. Round 1 - a dud (Makes a guy feel good when his very first handload is a dud!). Rounds 2 and 3 you can see in the upper left hand quadrant. Round 4 I consider a flyer - it's the one about an inch high and an inch over. On rounds 5 and 6, having decided I was definitely high and to the left I decided to shoot the LOWER right quadrant. What happened - look in the UPPER right quadrant. How the heck did I hit the upper when I was shooting at the lower???? A person at the range lent me his chrono and all were hitting about 3150fps so I figured at least the powder charges were consistent. Keeping in mind I do not even speak the "handloaders vocabulary" yet, does anyone have a few thoughts on what the heck I was doing wrong? I would have thought the heavier bullets would have shot low, not high, and when I shot low, they went high. Makes no sense to me at all :shock: :?

 

[mattsbox99]

Thats the fun and frustrating part of handloading.

It does generally help to use a larger target at 100 yards because you never know how they are gonna print.

I've had all manner of experiences in rifle cartridges. My 6.5 Creedmoor really prints different depending on the bullet.

With that gun, the same bullet weight from different manufacturers will make a completely seperate group that might be 4" away, or it might be right on top of another group.

I don't think you were doing anything wrong, I would simply set up two targets at 100 yards, using one for fouler shots and cleaning between test groups.

You can't walk into a major league baseball game and expect to hit a homerun on your first at bat.

I guess I've done that with reloading quite a bit recently, but not without a lot of failures, a lot of research, good technique, & knowing what to expect.

FWIW, the "most accurate powder/load tested" is not something you should go by. IMR4350 is good in the 25/06 - you want something that fills the case 90-95%.

 

[BearStopper]

Quite a few variables. As long as you are a perfectionist and a little obsessive compulsive, you will get it figured out. I use 4831SC in the 25-06. I prefer Barnes TTSX too even though they are expensive. At least yours shoots better than average with the cheapest ammo out there!

 

[Dan in MI]

I'm talking real generic here.

1st when developing a load I pick my components and load within a range of where multiple books say. If the book says 25grs of xyz with aabc gr bullet, then I will load 5 each of 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27 grs. (staying within the safe range parameters)

I will shoot these for groups that will tell me what area shoots best. Then I will refine the load and seating depth to really fine tune it.

Your shooting skill is paramount for this work. Bag and scope the gun so it is very stable. If you're not up to 100 yds start at 50 until you get the groups where you want them, then stretch it out.

As far as one bullet shooting higher or lower. it's not a simple as weight or velocity. There is also "barrel time." That is how long after the primer is popped before the bullet exits the bore. Recoil (muzzle rise) starts upon primer ignition. Powder burn rate, your control of the gun, and a few other things affect how high the bore has risen before the bullet exits. This will show up on you target.

 

[Pal Val]

The most important point is consistency. If you do everything with consistency in the handloading, your load will most probably perform consistently, either good or bad. This will tell you to make changes, one component at a time. After some experimenting, you will find a load that does the job, and will be able to repeat it as much as you like.

If at first you don't succeed, try again. Works for everything except sky diving. :roll: :roll:

 

[Jimbo357mag]

A dud?? Did you find what the problem was? Did you try a second strike? Did the primer pop? Did you pull the bullet? Curious minds would like to know.

If you are getting a higher POI with your reloads, the chances are that you are getting a little more recoil from your handloads. ...Also I have noticed working up loads for my 30-30 that different components (especially bullets) will group in different places and take a few shots to group there. I have gone through a lot of powder and different bullets to find a few good loads that I can live with, in my new rifle. Good luck and patients with your reloading. 8) 8)

...Jimbo

 

[BeagleDog]

Wow, lot's of good advice and a lot to think about. First of all I think I was pretty stupid to start the handloads at 100. I think I would have been much better off at my normal 25 yards I use to sight in my guns. In that shorter distance I think I would have gotten a better feel for what the rounds were doing and to be less susceptible to "operator error". After the dud, I definitely got the sense I was flinching a bit not really knowing what to expect. And Jimbo, without even knowing if it was a good idea or not, I did shoot the dud twice. Primer strikes were good and consistent. I have no idea what was wrong. Question - what should I be looking for if I pull the bullet?

The big thing I got out of this was to have patience. I'm just going to start over at 25 yards with the same loads (I still have 14) and simply see what happens. If I am getting good results after a certain number of shots I will use the remaining at 100 yards and see what happens there.

Thanks for all the advice. As a newbie this seems a little daunting right now with all the variables so you'll probably see me back with questions!

 

[Rick Courtright]

Thanks for all the advice. As a newbie this seems a little daunting right now with all the variables so you'll probably see me back with questions!

Hi,

Welcome to a new addiction, er "hobby," BD!

As you've already learned quickly, reloading isn't just a matter of "put the stuff in the case and go shoot it!" I have a couple of thoughts that I HOPE are redundant, but maybe not:

Case prep: that dud could have been a bad primer. Could have been an improperly seated primer, though a "second strike" will usually make one of those go off. Could have just been a used primer that slipped by you.

So, let's start off doing as my brother in law does. He carefully looks at and inspects every one of his cases prior to the next operation. Sometimes his "slowness" kinda gets me, but he's always got "good" ammo when we go to the range!

When you resize your brass, check it all to make sure one case didn't get in the wrong pile w/ the old primer still inserted (and unsized, too!) When you're happy there, use a primer pocket cleaning tool to get the old crud out of the primer pocket. For me, that's a more important operation w/ rifle brass than pistol brass. You want a clean, firm seat for the primer.

After repriming, check for "high" primers. If you put a straightedge across the case, you should see some light between it and the primer face. Some people will give you actual figures of 0.002"-0.004" or so, but the actual amount can vary w/ different components. You're trying to ensure the primer's seated firmly. In time, you'll develop a "feel" for this and some other operations that tells you "go-no go!"

Powder charges: I notice from Hodgdon's site that you used what looks like a "middle of the recipe" load. Looks like the "range" is from 47.0 to 52.0 gr w/ that powder. Try dropping down to the "starting" load to start w/ ANY powder, then work up. You'll often find a "sweet spot" in there somewhere your gun likes, and it's seldom going to be the "max" load.

And speaking of which, the chrono can tell you something. You mentioned 3150 fps. Hodgdon's lists 3106 fps w/ a "max" charge. It's not often that we get MORE velocity in the field than the lab gets, so that tells me you're quite likely a little "hot"--for YOUR gun. So try dropping back on the powder and see what happens.

Bullet seating and crimping: here you're gonna get answers and opinions from ALL OVER the chart! Some will tell you "seat the bullet out to where it just almost touches the lands, use no crimp, make sure you have enough neck tension." Others will say "seat to the book length, use some crimp, etc." In other words, they're 180 degrees apart. These terms probably don't mean much to you yet, but the important thing is that WHICHEVER approach you take, you do it CONSISTENTLY. I've seen guys just slap stuff together that was horribly inaccurate because they didn't take the time to make their ammo consistent. Some didn't know better, others were in a hurry. By now, you know better, AND know not to be in a hurry, so you're many steps ahead of them!

Sometimes you'll find a "perfect" load for YOUR gun, and it may or may not be a "common" one. Other times, you'll find the load 9 out of 10 guys love in theirs just doesn't work well w/ yours. No biggie--it usually takes a while to work out the "best" for each of our guns.

Since you've got access to a chrono, you're also ahead of the game. You mentioned the factory ammo works well for you. You might want to get some more, shoot it for velocity AND accuracy, and work toward matching it. THEN work to improve...

While reloaders LOVE to say they can build better ammo than the factory, the truth is that what you get off the shelf us usually "pretty good stuff" as is. So it makes a good bench mark. As you learn more, THEN you can find out if you CAN make better ammo than the factory, for YOUR gun!

Notice the "YOUR gun" references over and over. Each gun's a story unto itself, which is part of what makes reloading both rewarding and frustrating, especially at first. So be patient, and don't be afraid to change things in your quest to do better. Just remember, only change ONE thing at a time, so you know if it helps or hurts...

Best of luck, and ask all the questions you need to! We all started out where you are once, and didn't know anything, so we know what you're going thru!

Rick C

 

[mattsbox99]

And Jimbo, without even knowing if it was a good idea or not, I did shoot the dud twice. Primer strikes were good and consistent. I have no idea what was wrong. Question - what should I be looking for if I pull the bullet?

99.99% chance you forgot to put powder in it, .01% the primer was bad.

 

[revhigh]

I'm guessing your handload inconsistency at 100m yards was 'operator error'. I'd try again and really concentrate.

REV

 

[contender]

One thing I do not see here is a description of how the groups were shot in reference to HOW the gun was mounted in a rest.
First thing, shorten the distance to 25-50 yds. Next, be sure you are not putting the barrel on the rest, and ONLY the rear portion of the Encore foreend on the bags on the rest. Undue pressure on a barrel can & will cause deviations of accuracy.
Try this in addition to the advice above.

 

[BeagleDog]

One thing I do not see here is a description of how the groups were shot in reference to HOW the gun was mounted in a rest.
First thing, shorten the distance to 25-50 yds. Next, be sure you are not putting the barrel on the rest, and ONLY the rear portion of the Encore foreend on the bags on the rest. Undue pressure on a barrel can & will cause deviations of accuracy.
Try this in addition to the advice above.

Ty, I was definitely resting the barrel on the bags. I'll do what you suggest along with the other advice and see what happens. Stay tuned for "round" two!

 

[Anonymous]

One thing I do not see here is a description of how the groups were shot in reference to HOW the gun was mounted in a rest.
First thing, shorten the distance to 25-50 yds. Next, be sure you are not putting the barrel on the rest, and ONLY the rear portion of the Encore foreend on the bags on the rest. Undue pressure on a barrel can & will cause deviations of accuracy.
Try this in addition to the advice above.

Ty, I was definitely resting the barrel on the bags. I'll do what you suggest along with the other advice and see what happens. Stay tuned for "round" two!

All good advice.

1. Consistency
2. Be meticulous about loading procedure.
2. Start under MAX load and work up.
3. Start close and work your way out yardage wise as you get your loads consistent.
4. Use proper rest technique when benching for accuracy testing.
5. Do not go crazy as a loon like most of us who strive for that perfect load. :lol:

 

[BeagleDog]

I'm going back to the range this week and see what those other 14 rounds will do. Operator error, to hot a charge, improperly seating the barrel. BUT, I am also going back with some of the factory loads and see what they do. I am NOT going to mix them up this time! I will start at 25 with the handloads and go from there, If they are off at either 25 or 100 I will then use the factory loads to "verify". I really don't care. I would love to have "my" handloads do the job but 400 yard shots at "pigs" aren't all that unusual, I'm hoping to start this experiment as a beginning to a lifelong addiction - sorry Rick - hobby - but if the Remingtons do the job, then they do the job!

 

[Jimbo357mag]

I am thinking the 25-06 has got to be a tough round to start reloading with. Being a long range Varmint round, any little thing could adversely effect the accuracy of the round. After initial sighting-in with factory ammo I would do my comparisons at either 50 or 100 yards and use two targets and fire about 5 or 6 rounds at each target. One target for factory ammo and one target for handloaded ammo. I think that would give you the best comparisons of both accuracy (group size) and group position (left,right,up,down). 8) 8)

...Jimbo

 

[snakeeyes4445]

Some of my inconsistent loads have been traced back to not enough crimp. Cold weather will cause problems with your loads if the crimp is weak. Take a real good look at the factory crimp and even read the die set up directions....plus what these other guys said. It is lots of fun to roll your own.
No harm done, but you want your hunting loads to be tried and true.

 

[snakeeyes4445]

Some of my inconsistent loads have been traced back to not enough crimp. Cold weather will cause problems with your loads if the crimp is weak. Take a real good look at the factory crimp and even read the die set up directions....plus what these other guys said. It is lots of fun to roll your own.
No harm done, but you want your hunting loads to be tried and true.