Dealer's Service DEpt.

[Yaworski]

I know in my county whenever a sheriff's car is involved in any kind of high speed pursuit ALL the brakes on all 4 wheels must be replaced.
Makes the guy who owns the auto parts store happy

In my sporty car days, I could get multiple track days out of a set of high performance pads. I'm pretty sure that I stressed those pads more than any high speed chase could. Very nice to be spending OPM.

 

[kmoore]

I know in my county whenever a sheriff's car is involved in any kind of high speed pursuit ALL the brakes on all 4 wheels must be replaced.
Makes the guy who owns the auto parts store happy

Often the front rotors get warped, wheel bearings might need grease or replaced because of the high temps. All depends on speeds, how long, how much braking needed. Before ABS systems the driver could feel the brakes getting soft. When several police cars get involved in a long pursuit, there's normally the smell someone's over heated brakes at the end. Can anyone guess why fleet police unit wheels have slots or holes around the area of the brakes I guess it does help.

 

[GasGuzzler]

PPVs are mostly SUVs now days and they are as heavy and usually much heavier than any old school Polara or Caprice cop car much less many muscle cars. The stress on the brakes and tires is massive. Gone are the days where cop cars are 4100 pounds and get 4 MPG doing top speed of 129. Now they're 6100 pounds and get 9 MPG going 140.

I know in my county whenever a sheriff's car is involved in any kind of high speed pursuit ALL the brakes on all 4 wheels must be replaced.
Makes the guy who owns the auto parts store happy

That's daily here in the great big State of Texas. No way the budgets could hold that requirement. The current Chevy Tahoe PPV has 16.5" diameter front discs and six piston calipers. The pads are very expensive too and the compound is very soft. Took a while for the aftermarket to catch up but they had to because GM couldn't during covid when the platform was released.

In my sporty car days, I could get multiple track days out of a set of high performance pads. I'm pretty sure that I stressed those pads more than any high speed chase could. Very nice to be spending OPM.

My 2003 Yukon Denali has nearly 200K miles and the original pads. My 2007 Sierra 1500 has nearly 200K miles and the original pads. My 2014 Equinox has 180K miles and the original pads. My 2009 Saturn Vue (Equinox copy with a V6) has 175K miles and the original pads. My 2005 Bonneville has 120K miles and the front pads have been changed. I sold a 2000 S-10 Blazer with 267K miles and the original front brakes. The pads and caliper designs have changed since 2005 and there are great longevity gains. My 1998 S-10 pick up with a 4-cylinder was good for 25K per front pad set.

 

[Jeepnik]

Well, I've been told by numerous tire guys that I've known socially that inner tubes and sidewall holes don't go together. I don't know what Steve McQueen has to do with this.

Well, first your youth and or inexperience is showing. McQueen stole the name. The original Baja Boot was the generic name (like Kleenex) for a thick and large rubber patch that would be inserted and glued into the inside of a tire. They were used by off roaders to get tires repaired when they suffered substantial, including sidewall, damage. Smart off roaders carried these and properly sized inner tubes.

If course, today, I doubt 1 in 50 to 100 thousand 4 wheel drive vehicle even has a set of tire irons on board. And few still have drivers that have a clue how to use them (they bought them because they look cool). The rage today is to pay some outfit a small fortune to come rescue you when you get a flat off road. Youtube is full of these guys.

 

[Yaworski]

Well, first your youth and or inexperience is showing.z

More lack of caring.

 

[Dan in MI]

This action by the repair center is legal in some states. In the states where it is illegal, sometimes the car is impounded and requires legal actions to retrieve it.
Sadly what one thinks is legal or should be legal, is illegal.

I find that hard to believe. I could see not allowing it to be driven, but that does not prevent towing. They can't force you to buy tires from them and you can't take it to another shop if they steal it.

 

[Yaworski]

Often the front rotors get warped, wheel bearings might need grease or replaced because of the high temps.

Are these high speed chases five or six hours long?

 

[Jeepnik]

Are these high speed chases five or six hours long?

Don't know about 5 or 6 at high speeds but the chases sometimes go on for hours. But I notice that the lead car changes from time to time. Probably more because driving like that in traffic is very hard on car and driver. A chase on the streets is a lot harder on both than on a closed course where you go round and round. Even harder than Grand Prix.

 

[Yaworski]

Even harder than Grand Prix.

LOL!

Demanding Formula 1 circuits leave the pilots no time to breathe deeply between manoeuvres. During the race, the top pulse is 180 to 210 beats per minute. The mental stress situation in the racing car, the continuous maintenance of concentration in combination with the severe physical strain on the muscles caused by acceleration and centrifugal forces, as well as the excessive heat development, drive the heartbeat of a Formula 1 driver to heights that are at the limits of endurance sports. A moment of carelessness or weakness could have severe consequences for the drivers themselves, their competitors, the audience or the equipment.

On average, the fit heart of a Formula 1 driver usually beats between 140 and 170 times per minute during a race. This value is a remarkable performance of the drivers, considering that a race lasts up to 2 hours and the high pulse rate is maintained over the whole duration. Depending on the popularity of the race, the daily form of the driver or the difficulty of the tracks, the values are often topped.

 

[GasGuzzler]

Bearings haven't been serviceable on most vehicles in decades. They do warp rotors and wear out brakes way quicker than average but the vehicles don't have to be rebuilt after every chase.

I live and work in a County Seat just down the road from a DPS nest and less than half a mile from one of the most trafficked interstates we have with the major hospital across the street so I see a "high speed pursuit" almost weekly. They ain't replacing the brakes every day.

 

[kmoore]

Are these high speed chases five or six hours long?

The longest I that happened when I was working was from La Grande Or to Multnomah Falls Or. I-84 WB about 180 miles. Suspect firing a .44 mag at the cops. Don't remember how many rounds fired. BUT that was easy on the brakes, all freeway.
Unlike a race track, its go fast brake hard, sometimes nearly stopping when crossing major intersections. Braking hard not to slow for curves but all the other objects on an open roadway.
The high-speed track used in Oregon for cops is easy on units compared to any public road pursuit.
I don't see how comparing a race cars brakes life to a factory-made police unit brakes.
In 30 years I was assigned many different police vehicles until 2011 and it seemed the brakes improved on vehicles during that time as did most handling characteristics. The 80s Mustangs were the worse on brakes. The 90s Cameros had the best. I had a 2008 F250 marked unit and I stunk up the brakes only driving it code 3 but I never warped the rotors on it.

 

[Yaworski]

Unlike a race track, its go fast brake hard, sometimes nearly stopping when crossing major intersections

It sounds like you've never been on a road course. It's all acceleration to max speed then hard braking before a turn.

I don't see how comparing a race cars brakes life to a factory-made police unit brakes.

Not talking about "race cars" I'm talking about street cars that people drive for fun. I'm sure that police departments could buy the same pads that I do. When I was young, I used Ferodo (sp?), now I use Akebono.

 

[kmoore]

It sounds like you've never been on a road course. It's all acceleration to max speed then hard braking before a turn.



Not talking about "race cars" I'm talking about street cars that people drive for fun. I'm sure that police departments could buy the same pads that I do. When I was young, I used Ferodo (sp?), now I use Akebono.

Police car parts are factory replacement. I only wished they would use better stuff.
I have spend several years driving the PIR (Portland International Raceway). Thats the 1 of 2 road courses. Of course in training, not racing and after all high speed stuff has been on a police high speed track. I don't recall any brake problem on those courses. Pursuits YES, hell I was there. You weren't, think I make up stuff to impress others. It was just fact.

 

[peachhead]

Timely enough, I reckon.
Right now I'm about as mad as I can get.
Last year we had to have the door latch replaced on my wife's car. PITA. Local dealership quarter gets $1,200 to fix it, I got it done at a local shop for I think 700. Honestly I thought about fixing it myself but the inside of her door is a lot more complicated than I felt like messing with.
Her driver side door is now experiencing the same issues (of course). I already had an appointment set up at the dealership for other service. I called them and said, how much you going to charge me to replace the door latch on this door?
They would not tell me.
All they would tell me was it cost $170 to have it diagnosed and if I didn't have the work done there then I would owe them $170 bucks.
I told him never mind and cancelled my appointment.

 

[GasGuzzler]

I called them and said, how much you going to charge me to replace the door latch on this door? They would not tell me. All they would tell me was it cost $170 to have it diagnosed and if I didn't have the work done there then I would owe them $170 bucks. I told him never mind and cancelled my appointment.

What is the issue with that besides the price being high like everything else?

Our diagnostic fee is exactly $170.77. The last place I worked (1998-2001 LOL) would never price over the phone and instead insist on looking at the vehicle first. I will explain why but I never liked that approach because it seems seedy and does not garner trust.

Most times when someone calls for a price on a certain job (not maintenance but repair), they are wrong about what the cause/issue is. If the dealer is not VERY careful, the customer blames the dealer for the repair not fixing the concern that was not even diagnosed. Happens ALL the time here but we do a good job documenting no fault if incorrect. It's crazy how many people "read it on the internet" but it's wrong. They buy a part, pay for labor and/or programming, and are no farther along.

Techs are not paid by the hour except for very rare cases in socialist States that are overrun by unions. That is why there is a diagnostic check out fee. Cannot expect the tech to spend time proving the cause of failure only to have the customer take it somewhere else for the repairs or fix it themselves. Who pays the tech for the service provided? The dealer just loses money on every one of these to be nice? That's not how business works. Techs get paid a certain amount of "hours" for each task (customer pay comes from a labor time guide like Mitchell or AllData and warranty is determined by the manufacturer) and that is multiplied by their labor rate for their pay and by the door rate for the retail cost.

In a typical two-week pay period I will have 3-5 "customer declined work" jobs. With high prices caused by inflation, the dealer cannot just pee that cost away nor can they withhold pay to the techs for services rendered. If techs were paid by the clock hour, their rates would more than double to maintain the same gross pay and therefore the door rate would more than double ... and much less productivity would occur as well.

 

[peachhead]

@GasGuzzler
"The last place I worked (1998-2001 LOL) would never price over the phone and instead insist on looking at the vehicle first. I will explain why but I never liked that approach because it seems seedy and does not garner trust."
That's my problem.
They can at least give me an idea of how much they charge for that particular repair.
I understand that I may be wrong (doubt it, since I've already seen this once) but I am asking them specifically, how much for the door latch assembly and the labor to change it out and they will not price it.
I will keep my thoughts on the diagnostic fee to myself.

 

[GasGuzzler]

"They can at least give me an idea of how much they charge for that particular repair.
I understand that I may be wrong (doubt it, since I've already seen this once) but I am asking them specifically, how much for the door latch assembly and the labor to change it out"

Yeah, like I said ... I know why some places do that but I don't like it. We here will get them a price and tell them that's the amount whether it's fixed or not.

"I will keep my thoughts on the diagnostic fee to myself."

Please explain why it's okay to pay labor for a repair but not the labor for diagnostics. A person using tens of thousands of dollars in equipment and his brain the decipher the issue versus the same person using hundreds of dollars of tools and his brain to replace a part...