Dangerous Ruger American Rifle Failure - Bolt? Safety?

[azgunslinger]

I wish I had made a video of this. I have two winchesters that don't do what this is doing. Also, the vertical path of locking the bolt when it is all the way forward is not smooth. It stopped quite positively 1/2 way down into place. If the rotation is 70 degrees, it stopped with a firm 'thunk' at 35, requiring a fairly deliberate effort to continue the rotation. I could see an inexperienced shooter mistaking that 35 position as bolt closed. The bolt is not closed though and squeezing the trigger does not fire the gun, but it does release the firing pin. There is some mechanism on the bolt that 'knows' the bolt is not in battery. By rotating the bolt to the proper position, perhaps by a different person handling the rifle, the firing pin is truly released, and it goes off.

I just tried it on my Winchester model 70 coyote lite and super shadow. Both have same action (to each other, not the ruger), and neither did this. First, the action does not have any catch 1/2 way. You can try to wedge it open partially, but it's not easy to make the mistake. Second, squeezing the trigger with the bolt in the fully forward and partially engaged position forces the bolt to drop into place the remaining distance to be fully in battery...first, and then the firing pin snaps forward. So yes, it works the 'same way' if you mean you are physically able to release the firing pin before the bolt is fully rotated. The difference is the Winchester cleans up your mistake (however small) and the bolt isn't touched. Only the trigger.

On the ruger American, the bolt could stop in the halfway position and the firing pin could be released. It was somewhat stable like that such that I could see my son hand the rifle to someone else in the group saying it didn't go off. Even engaging the safety at this point (which it did not permit, if memory serves), would not prevent the firing pin from completing its goal once the bolt was manually rotated to line up. I could not get the Winchester to do this any way I tried. Every time the bolt was partially engaged, I squeezed the trigger and the bolt dropped into place first while the firing pin went off. For that reason, while the rifle was in the hands of the person who squeezed the trigger, the gun would go off...every single time. Only the trigger would cause the gun to discharge. Even if the bolt not being locked down was a dumb mistake, it didn't put you at risk.

If a picture is worth 1,000 words, a video may have saved me however many I have spent here trying to describe it.

If you guys can take a video of your gun doing this I'd be shocked. Bolt partially open, trigger squeezed. Take your finger off the trigger and rotate the bolt to make it fire, if you like that feature...and think it's normal...cheers to you and yours and I hope no one gets injured.

 

[rugerjunkie]

Im still not quite sure of what you are trying to explain but I think Im getting closer now and yes , it seems something is out of whack there...

 

[Coyote Hunter]

Should I have bought a Savage or Marlin at the same price point? (I know, wrong forum for that kind of talk!)

Wrong forum has nothing to do with it. Most of us are not that shallow.

But, QC issues are not confined to only Ruger products. You could have bought a Savage or Marlin, or many other brands, and could have had similar QC problems, and then you'd be asking if you should have bought a Ruger.
....

Agreed. I bought a Savage 111 for son-in-law 31 and had to send it back to the factory because it wouldn't feed the first round out of a loaded magazine. (It had the new center-feed mag.) Wich I had bought him a Ruger and plan to do so for #2.

 

[Chief 101]

nothing like a Ruger 77 or #1, but I still like my inexpensive American....no worries draging that thru the desert

 

[azgunslinger]

The older I get the more I appreciate the cliches. No substitute for quality and craftsmanship. If it's too good (cheap) to be true, it usually is. And one of my own, save longer for the best so it lasts. I'm glad you guys like the American. But I do think it's a niche rifle for someone who wants a cheap solution to a temporary need. That's the truth for me. My son won't be small for long so the compact size works - for now. If he gets drawn again while living under my roof, I'll probably buy him something that will last a lifetime.

 

[huntsman22]

As much(little) as some guys shoot, the American WILL last a lifetime......

 

[azgunslinger]

You're probably right huntsman, maybe 10 boxes of ammo or less put through! I get it though, if you get into shooting at all, you'll accumulate a few weapons. It would be challenging to shoot any one 1,000's of times. And before too long I'll need to get into reloading so I don't have to refinance my house before I visit the range!!

 

[picketpin]

Round counts: Ruger #1 17 Remington 5221
Ruger #1 220 Swift 5034 on the first barrel. Current count
Ruger #1 22-250 4812
Ruger #1 22-250 4832 current barrel 2009
Ruger #1 22-250AI 3016
Ruger #1 22-6mm AI VLD 3087
Ruger #1 257 Roberts "V" 5092
Ruger #1 204 2320
Ruger #1 6mm 3611

These are all "V"s with the exception of the 17 Remington and the 204. Both of those are in "B" configuration. It's pretty easy if you are a serious varmint hunter and not only live where they are and but there are guys/ranches that will pay for your fuel, ammo and usually out you up in the bunk house.

Last springs picketpin hunt in Eastern Oregon on a large corporate ranch, Cousin Wayne and I fired just a little over 10,000 cf rounds between the two of use in 8 days. WE each usually take 6- 8 rifle on that trip.

The other side of the equation are things like the 264 Win Mag, 7 STW, 30-338, 300 Win Mag, 338 Win Mag etc that have a few hundred through them. Nearly all at game animals. I doubt any will pass 300 hundred in my life time. Just get way fewer shots at BIG big game animals and I hunt a lot.

The stuff in the middle that are my primary deer and antelope etc. rifles, 6mm, 257 Roberts up to 270 WBY get shot about double that . Simply because we get more opportunity at those species.

Cousin Wayne called up a few years back. He was all excited, he had found 7STW head stamped cases at a gun show. I asked if he thought we'd manage to needed them as we each have 350+ rounds loaded for our 7STWs? Probably not ;-(

Before I started keeping a round count I suspect there were numerous rifles that went 5000-7500 before being re-barreled.

Heck my 22PPC and 6mmPPC round counts are in the thousands and that was just tinkering to find the load they liked/needed to shoot into the .3s The 22BR took less tinkering for an accuracy load but has now accounted for a couple thousand squirrels, rock chucks,and jack rabbits.

RWT

#1s follow me home like stray puppies. ;-)

 

[azgunslinger]

Picketpin, if you don't mind me asking, what do you do for a living? For me, time to get away shooting is too scarce to do it nearly as often as I spend thinking about it while working in the office. I'd love to get into varmint shooting, or something you can do every weekend if you could. If i had plenty of time (and money), I'd put in for every tag in AZ, maybe some non-res hunting in NM, CO, and ID...and go at least once a month to throw some lead. I'm just not quite there yet in my life, but if not now...when?

Idaho > AZ for hunting, but AZ isn't bad, that's for sure. Glad to be able to go out to "God's country" at least once a year just to breathe the air. If I see something, get a good shot, or God willing, be so lucky as to bag something (anything), its a bonus! This next trip will be the first with my eldest son, so pretty special. Off to a rocky start because dad tried to save a few bucks, contrary to every lesson I have tried to instill in the boy. (I don't want to be a "Do as I say, not as I do!" type - dangit!)

 

[picketpin]

AZ: Grew up on a ranch in the middle of nowhere. Shooting was a daily thing. Sundays off usually turned into a shooting match with every guy n the place shooting. Add shooting ground squirrels, jack rabbits and coyotes and your annual shot count gets pretty high. Add hunting season for big game and birds and more time afield.

The big deal was my dad was a Mule Deer hunter. H'd save his time and money and we'd put in for nearly every state that had Mule Deer, Antelope or Elk. I started reloading at age 8, ALMOST 60 years ago.

When I got out of the service I went into Law Enforcement. I was the guy that was always at the range. I'd save all my OT as Comp time and add it to my vacation days and usually take October and most of November off and go hunting. Usually 3 or 4 states. Even then it was surprising the shooting opportunities a guy had, even living in large metro areas to go shoot varmints/pest on some guys dad's farm out in the country. Worked out of Philly for a while but it was surprising just how many opportunities popped up to go shoot ground hogs if people knew your were interested.

Medically retired in 1993 and moved home to the ranch which my Grand Mother gave me and started over. If you live in the middle of nowhere. Other than your work/chores there isn't a lot to do. Don't smoke, don't drink, the wife won't let me chase long legged blondes, so I shoot and hunt. WE have to shooting benches on the front porch and targets and gongs out to 1000 yards. Sundays still turn into every guy on the place dragging out his rifle/rifles and with a few dollars on the table just who can shoot. ;-)

Retired again and now I mostly shoot, reload, buy guns and go where I need to, to shoot. Back to putting in for hunts across the west and now that I have a few dollars saved I book at least 2 guided hunts a year. This fall it's White Tails up north in Idaho and Black Tails in Oregon. Next year is Couse Deer in Mexico and Shira Moose in Utah on a land owner tag. In the intreum is reload, tinker, buy guns and SHOOT.

Cousin Wayne is also retired and my life long shooting partner. Now it's simply a matter of packing ammo and rifles and heading out to where ever we've been invited. The Eastern Oregon ground squirrel hunt usually accounts for 3 or 4 weeks/trips each summer and lots of shooting. But we've been know to simply pack the truck and head out to Wyoming because a guy called and said he had all the prairie dogs we could shoot in his alfalfa. Or Cousin Bill calls and we head to Ironside, Oregon to shoot squirrels in his alfalfa or Central Oregon to shoot Gray Diggers (A slightly larger ground squirrel) out of a couple of ole boys barley fields. Just live some place where thees lots of opportunity and am lucky enough to have the TIME and the RESOURCES to hunt/shoot or get ready to. ;-) There is at least ONE real advantage to being old and retired. That and the fact that I don't do much else. No bowling, no soft ball. no Nascar, no sports, simply very few distractions or activities that take my time and money away from shooting and hunting. I used to fish a lot but quit about 20 years ago.

Life is tough. ;-)

Ross

 

[azgunslinger]

Ross -

That's what I suspected. You are in a unique position my friend. I am a little behind you, by a bit more than 20 years, and have a 16, 11, & 3yr old I'm busy raising while trying to manage my international business. Shooting is a lot of fun for me and I hope I can get to a point where I can take some time to slow down, get good at it and learn some of the more detailed things like how to reload and extend my effective range with some good glass. Maybe even the occasional hunt.

I love fishing too, and I hope to have enough time to get good at fly fishing...just not in the realm of possibilities today. I'll be lucky if I go fishing for 2-3 days a year. Sad, really. Grew up in Wisconsin and every weekend I could throw a line out if I made even a tiny effort. AZ is a bit tougher to find enough water to make that happen.

Sounds like you got a great lifestyle, doing what you want, and keeping it clean! Godspeed, Ross!

Dave