Can't decide - Guide Gun, Hwkeye Predator, Hwkeye FTW Hunter

[greyrush]

I'm having a hard time trying to decide on my next rifle which I have narrowed down to ... the Guide Gun and the Hawkeye FTW Hunter, in 300 win mag. Before those two I was almost going with the Hawkeye Predator in .308.

A little background ... I'm not a hunter, yet, living in northern IL but someday hope to move further west. I have a Gunsite Scout in 5.56, 2 Henry's in 30-30 and 45-70. So I was thinking of a nice gun, put a decent scope on, in a decent size caliber that can reach out a bit, that I might eventually find useful (in a place other than IL).

The 300WM drops less than the 308 out at 400 or 500 yards and has more energy out there. I've read a number of forum posts and watched YouTube videos of everyone trying to explain why caliber abc is better than xyz. Sure, you need a caliber that will be effective for the game you're after, but in the end it is shot placement that gets the job done.

The 3 choices I mentioned above I like because ... I can get all 3 in a stainless barrel, 2 have the green laminate stock which I just love. In the Hawkeye series with a 300WM and 308 it's pretty much either the Predator or FTW Hunter. The Compact, Laminate Compact, and Standard don't really appeal to me. The Guide Gun has backup iron sights, and the gun just looks freakin' nice.

I realize there is a lot of personal preference and intended use involved in choosing a gun so everyone will more than likely have varying opinions. I've never shot a 300WM gun, shot a little 308 (range and outdoor target). But is there anything about the 3 mentioned that you folks have thoughts on? Thx for your input.

 

[huntsman22]

Hawkeye Predator in 6.5 creed. If for no other reason that it kicks the 308's butt, and the 2-stage trigger beats the FTW's 'cool' camo......

 

[Rocdoc]

My choice would be the Guide just because it has open sites. Do not see 7mag offered currently of the 3 you mentioned, that would be one I would consider for western hunting. Lots of new cartridges over the last few years, I think a 300WM is a fine choice, and you can probably find ammo in small town hardware stores, gun shops, gas stations.....in remote areas out west.

 

[22/45 Fan]

You might want to shoot a few rounds through a .300 Win Mag before buying one. The recoil is a lot stiffer than the .308 and you should be sure you can shoot it well enough to not let that affect you.

The 6.5 Creedmore mentioned above is a superb long range cartridge with great inherent accuracy and modest recoil.

 

[TBear77]

As mentioned above, the 6.5 Creedmore is a good option to consider.

Also don't overlook the 30-06. It may be all you need...depending on what ranges you are going to hunt. And, the recoil isn't as stiff as the Win Mag.

Ted

 

[planetcat]

I would get the guide gun in .300 win mag. It's on the heavy side, but looks stout and the extra weight will reduce the snap of that .300 wm.

 

[greyrush]

So far the votes seem to be for the Guide Gun and the Predator in 6.5 Creedmore. I never really considered the CM round but did just watch some vids on it, could be a good choice. Things that make you go hmmmmm ....

 

[Littlebluetruck]

I would add that a 300Win with a 20" barrel sounds like it might be kinda loud. I have them unbraked in 24" and 26" and they are ok, but a 20" tube with all that slow burning powder should be a real blast to shoot. Maybe I am just getting too old?

 

[Rocdoc]

You might want to shoot a few rounds through a .300 Win Mag before buying one. The recoil is a lot stiffer than the .308 and you should be sure you can shoot it well enough to not let that affect you.

True and good advice, but you can take precautions at the range while practicing and sighting in to lower the felt recoil, however I have never noticed the recoil of any rifle when shooting game. Those Guides have a muzzle break, do not know for sure, but will not that mitigate some felt recoil? I have considered a Guide in 30-06, but have not got one yet.

 

[grobin]

IMHO you are being premature! It really depends on where you wind up and what you are dooing. I'd wait and see.

If you have the itch bad I'd either go with the 6.5 Creedmoore or the 7mm Remington magnum. The 7mm is a bit better for moose, elk and caribou, but either will work just fine. The 6.5 is a bit better at long ranges but uses a lighter bullet. Either is fine for long range competition, but the 6.5 has the edge in accuracy. Ammo for either is not real expensive and both are easy to handload.

I don't really see the 300 mag. If you really want the punch at long range and don't mind the recoil (not too bad with a good compensator) and ammo cost the 338 Lupua is the way to go.

But it all depends on where you wind up and what you are doing!

 

[Rumrunner]

I have the Guide Gun in 338RCM and really like it. Recoil feels less to me than my American in 308, due to weight and the brake. However I think the 300 WM with a 20" barrel would be a waste. I would seriously look at the 30-06 in the Guide Gun as first choice.

The 308, 7mm, or 6.5 CM would be good choices as well depending on which model you choose.

I live in Knox county IL. I have the 308 in the Ruger American, 338 RCM in the Guide gun, and 7MM in an Encore. If you want to shoot any of these before you make a purchase, give me a PM and we can arrange something.

 

[greyrush]

IMHO you are being premature! It really depends on where you wind up and what you are dooing. I'd wait and see. If you have the itch bad ...

I do a little bit. :-] But yes, I can understand the reason to wait.

I have the Guide Gun in 338RCM and really like it. Recoil feels less to me than my American in 308, due to weight and the brake. However I think the 200 WM with a 20" barrel would be a waste. I would seriously look at the 30-06 in the Guide Gun as first choice.

My LGS has a Guide Gun in 338RCM on their wall right now, but I was a little worried about availability of that round and how much longer it will be around. For ex., ammunitiondepot.com doesn't even list that round.

So, a few votes questioning the 300 win mag, a few votes for the 30-06, and the Guide Gun.

The last couple weeks I've been doing a lot of reading, watching youtube vids. I know, take some of those with a grain of salt, but you sure see some opinions come out, esp. in the comments! haha. There are a lot of choices these days and a lot of info to ingest about those choices, almost impossible to have everything laying side-by-side to make a good decision. For ex., I never really looked at the ballistics of the 6.5 Creedmore or 30-06 until today, and they aren't as far apart as I initially thought they were. Maybe I picked disparate bullet styles from Federal's ballistics calculator to compare the two with (which is another area I haven't even gotten into yet ... bullet style).

So if I leave the magnum rounds off the table for the moment, put the 30-06 on the table, the Predator and FTW Hunter aren't available in 30-06, but the Guide Gun is. That sounds like a fairly versatile combination (since I don't have a specific use at the moment), and still covers an area I don't have covered with my current gun safe contents.

 

[grobin]

The Muzzle Brake on the guide gun is a major plus particularly with the 338. Looking briefly at the 338s available I count 10 cartridges of which I'm confident that only the Lupua and Winchester will survive long term (not saying that some of the the others will not survive, but it's unlikely that most will).

More to the point the 30-06 is a very good generalist cartridge and has taken pretty much every game animal in the world. It's very versatile,particularly if you hand load. The Muzzle Brake isn't the necessity with it that it is with the magnums but it is a very good idea. The guide gun's 20' barrel is a little short but not an issue which it is with the magnums. It's also one of the most widely available cartridges.

In my limited experience the 6.5 is a much better verry long range cartridge, particularly for target shooting; but with two reservations. First the 140 grain bullets are a bit light for heavy game (brown bear, moose, walrus...). Second some rifles in 6.5 tend to keyhole with some loads at under 200 yards.

 

[planetcat]

For the amount of power you get with a .300 wm, ammo selection, availability, and decent price, it is hard to beat. And if you dont like or want the stout recoil, there are a variety if reduced recoil loads that shoot like a .30-06 or softer. I think the heavy guide gun, with nice recoil pad and factory muzzle break is a great set up in .300 win mag. Needless to say, I am a big fan of it.

 

[kmoore]

Others beat me to it but, I will repeat. Your reading facts, that's good, shoot any .300 before you buy one, being a reader of what's good on paper and having it kick you until you hate it is different. By the way the 6.5 cm is a nice shooting, fun caliber. Mine is the FTW, I hate the camo, I love looking at a beautiful piece of wood as most of my rifle have. I got it not to hunt with just shoot lots of bullets at the range and enjoy it.
Okay, I went back and read your 1st again. This is why I buy a gun, any gun. I decide what I want the new gun for ie, kill deer in brush, kill elk in open county etc etc. I have a mission for it. Then I look at calibers that will work. How, look up ballistic data. Then what type of action do I want. What type of scope size or iron sights will work. Then what rifle brand. For me hand loading is all I do so that data on available bullets to do the mission is real important. You likely not. Recoil does not affect me, as some. Recoil is all subjective. Some big guys hate a 7mm rem mag. But, the thing about recoil, if you do not work up to getting kicked hard you will never be a good shooter. I have 2 rifles that will loosen up teeth fillings if shot with my mouth open, the recoil slams my mouth shut hard. I shoot them just not many rounds at a time or I jerk and yell went I shoot them and come home with a black and blue shoulder. All my guns shoot as little of groups as possible or they get fixed or sold. Be aware of everybody who says there groups are always xx at xx yards, you may never get yours to do that. Sometimes I and We as gun nuts buy rifles that just do not do what we want, if that happens sell it and move on. Good Luck

 

[gramps]

You aren't hunting yet. You have no idea what your specific needs will be. That says a good generalist approach is the place to start. The 30/06, and whichever gun that is chambered for it would logically be the route to go. You can't walk into the COOP here, and pick up a box Creedmore ammo, probably the same there. Good luck.
gramps

 

[greyrush]

In my limited experience the 6.5 is a much better verry long range cartridge, particularly for target shooting; but with two reservations. First the 140 grain bullets are a bit light for heavy game (brown bear, moose, walrus...).

You aren't hunting yet. You have no idea what your specific needs will be. That says a good generalist approach is the place to start. The 30/06, and whichever gun that is chambered for it would logically be the route to go.

More votes for the 30-06. I don't think I would mind that caliber at all. As others have said, a good general starting spot.

Others beat me to it but, I will repeat. Your reading facts, that's good, shoot any .300 before you buy one, being a reader of what's good on paper and having it kick you until you hate it is different. By the way the 6.5 cm is a nice shooting, fun caliber. Mine is the FTW, I hate the camo, I love looking at a beautiful piece of wood as most of my rifle have. I got it not to hunt with just shoot lots of bullets at the range and enjoy it.

I might be doing too much reading and not enough actual doing, but it's all I have at the moment. I'm not a big fan of the FTW camo either, the green laminate of the Guide and Hawkeye Predator though almost make me drool.

I decide what I want the new gun for ie, kill deer in brush, kill elk in open county etc etc. I have a mission for it.

This is most likely why I'm having trouble deciding ... I just don't have that mission yet. But in my head I was sort-of thinking ... bigger game, further out than 150 yards.

Recoil does not affect me, as some. Recoil is all subjective. Some big guys hate a 7mm rem mag. But, the thing about recoil, if you do not work up to getting kicked hard you will never be a good shooter. I have 2 rifles that will loosen up teeth fillings if shot with my mouth open, the recoil slams my mouth shut hard.

haha ... Well, I'm 6'4", 260 lbs., so I'm not small but I don't want to get knocked over or traumatized either. I've shot my 45-70 a few times now and with some basic Federal load it really isn't too bad. Then I tried some Hornady version, and a Great Lakes brand I'd never heard of ... and both of those make my brain and eye balls rattle and try to take my shoulder off. :-O Man those kick hard. And I'm barely on the paper at 50 ft. with those 2 nasty rounds (iron sights).

A Guide Gun in 30-06 seems to be in the lead at the moment. And then in the back of my head I'm eyeballing the Hawkeye Predator in 6.5CM down the road later, just because. ;-]

Thank-you all for your input, lots of good stuff to think about.

 

[grobin]

Three last considerations:
While 30-06 ammo costs a bit less than the Hornady 45-70, 7mms mag about the same, 300 mag about 2x and 338 Lupua about 3.5 x. The cost as much as the recoil limits the amount that you use a gun.
As for the recoil the 30-06 is similar or a little bit lighter than the 45-70 you don't like. The 7mm mag about 1/3 more, the 300 about 1/3 more and the 338 more than 2x.
Lastly here in Colorado-hunting country the local gun stores have a good selection; of 30-06, a little 7mm, less 300 and no 338. To get a real selection you need to get to a metro area and a big store (or go online).

Given your reaction to a hot 45-70 load you should only consider rifles on the heavy side with muzzle brakes. You also need to try a similar rifle to what you are considering before buying!

 

[greyrush]

As for the recoil the 30-06 is similar or a little bit lighter than the 45-70 you don't like. The 7mm mag about 1/3 more, the 300 about 1/3 more and the 338 more than 2x.
... ...
Given your reaction to a hot 45-70 load you should only consider rifles on the heavy side with muzzle brakes. You also need to try a similar rifle to what you are considering before buying!

Thank-you for the comparison, good info.

My Henry 45-70 is 7 lbs., the Guide Gun is 8.1 lbs. I found a calculator that takes bullet weight, powder weight, velocity, and gun weight, and gives you a recoil force in ft/lbs. (hopefully it's close enough for a ballpark on recoil). I tried to find a little data on powder weights one might use in a 45-70 and 30-06 (since I couldn't find actual data on factory loads), used some typical bullet weights, then just changed the gun weight to see the difference it had on recoil force. The extra 1.1 lbs. of the Guide Gun dropped the recoil force a little over 1 lbs., almost 3 lbs. with one set of inputs. Not a lot of reduction, but some nonetheless.

Here's the talk-myself-into-a-gun section ... :-] I had a .308 (from another well known co.) for a short bit that was 7.5 lbs., recoil didn't bother me with that one. The Hawkeye Standard in 30-06 is 7.5 lbs., Guide is 8.1 lbs., ie., another vote for the Guide over something else. 30-06 is a bit less recoil than the other calibers you mentioned. Guide has the muzzle brake. The 30-06 recoil is less than a 45-70, so at least it's not more than those hot 45-70s I don't like (though the Federal load I don't really mind, 300gr Power-Shok). And if I work with a 30-06 to improve my skills, it will step me up a notch to bigger/hotter/faster loads later if needed. Just checked my local gun range, they don't have a 30-06 to rent.

Now ... where's that Turbo Tax program for refund season! :-]

 

[gramps]

Does the range have a .308 to rent. Ballistically, the .308 and 30/06 are very similar.
Good luck.
gramps