Callibers

[mr_trumpet1]

Ok so I just got out of the crazy jungle researching the differences of the .270 and the .30-06. Both are pretty much the same round given the .30-06 is a slightly bigger bullet just the .270 round is a .30-06 casing necked down just to hold the .270 bullet. Both are great at shooting big game except the .30-06 can handle moose etc. The .30-06 is a more versatile round (I think) because of the different loads it has. But my question is, does the .30-06 carry its energy further than the .270? Any kind of input will be greatly appreciated and please feel free to correct any of the generalizations that I have made with the two callibers.

 

[picketpin]

Down range energy is figured by bullet weight, BC and velocity.

A 150 grain 270 bullet if made in the same shape as a 30-06 bullet would be longer and therfore would have a higher BC so it would retian energy further down rancge and drift less.

That being said, there are simmply heavier bullets available for the 30 caliber than the .270 so if the question is can the 30-06 be loaded with more down range energy the answer is yes once you go beyond weights that are available to the 270. The heavy 270 bullet weighs 160 grains. The Heavy 30 caliber bullet weighs 220 grains.

Check the exterior ballistics.

All that being said, for big game, unless you hunt elk, moose and big bears this is an apples versus aplles thing. As you have remarked they are the same case. The change in shape/neck was really only so you couldn't load one in the pother. As a wildcat you could have simply necked the 30-06 down to 270 and the ballistic would have been essentually the same as the 270 Winchester.

I know several guys that have killed a crap load of elk with 150s in 270.

However, the 270 really made it's reputation with 130s going fast.

RWT

 

[Tracer]

The .270 verses 30-06! The .270 is faster using 130 grain factory bullets verses the 30-06's 150 grain factory bullets. The .270 makes a great down range deer rifle and when using the 150 grain bullets, should not in my humble opinion be used for big game over 350 to 400 pounds on the hoof.

Now that 30-06 caliber using 180, 200, 220 or even 250 grain bullets can bring down the biggest of animals in North America including the big bears. Many a big Brown Bear has been taken with a 30-06 and 220 grain bullets.

The 30-06 is truely a big game caliber and a 1-GUN hunts all species, if loaded with the proper bullet weight and premium bullet.

 

[Trey Whitley]

The .30-06 is a more versatile round (I think)...

The .30-'06 is definitely a more versatile round, both in factory-loaded ammo and the components available for handloading. That may or may not be an important consideration for you, depending on the range of animals you expect to hunt.

I have way more rifles than I need, but if I ever had to go to a single rifle my choice would be one of my 30-06's.

 

[6mmsl]

I would go 30-06 and never look back. I have had both and hunted with both.

1.Recoil is about the same.
2.30-06 can handle heavier loads as well as light.
3.I found that the .270 shot 130 grains really well others not so great-it was hard for me to find a accurate heavier load.
4.Any energy differences are slight and at hunting distances they both will kill Big Game -energy and external ballistics only help me calculate how to put my shot accurately down range -I ever worry if it will kill my game -I know it will if I place my shot correctly-a couple hundreds pounds of energy wont make much of a difference.

Good shooting-Steve

 

[picketpin]

My father was a HUNTER, he wasn't a gun guy per se and he only reloaded so he could shoot more.

I really have no idea how many head of Big Game the old man killed from the end of WWII till he quit hunting in his late 70s, but it was in the hundreds.

At one time or another he hunted and killed everything that was huntable fair chase on the N American continent. Including a lot of elk, big bears and a few moose including Alaskan and Shiras.

Every head of big game he ever killed from Coues Deer to Alaskan moose was shot and killed with a 30-06 Sporterized Eddystone Enfield and the bullet appropriate for the task.

It's out in my gun room right now. It's on it's third Douglas Barrel and that takes a LOT of shooting in something as bore balanced as an 06.


While I own/haved owned nearly everything every chambered in a bolt action rifles, I could sell them all and start packing the Eddystone and do just fine. ;-)

The 270 is a antelope, deer and in a pinch elk rifle. The 30-06 is the do everything well rifle, just choose the right bullet for the task at hand.
It is the Great Generalist.

RWT

 

[Heliman]

My first 25 yrs of hunting was done almost exclusively with a Remington 721 30.06. In the last 20 years I have chosen to hunt with other rifles in other non-magnum and magnum chamberings. It's not that those others are any better, it just enhances the hunting experience for me to diversify.

All that being said, I would go back to the '06 in a heartbeat and be happy, if all other options were taken away.

Dave

 

[sargents1]

I used to think the 30-06 was an "all-around" caliber too, and to an extent it is, but then I shot a moose the lungs at less than 40yds with an '06 that we followed for miles and never recovered. Later that same hunting trip we put about 6-8 shots into a cow moose at about 100yds before she went down. (lungs, hind quarters, front leg, all over the damn place)Then two (yes, two) finishers at point blank to the neck. (the second one was not really necessary, she wasnt going anywhere at that point, but after losing that first bull I was going with the shoot-until-they-stop-moving mindset).

Bottom line for me is that there isnt even spitting distance between the practical capabilities of an '06 vs a .270. If you are a good shot and can place the bullet through the neck, heart or spine, no animal: deer, moose, caribou, or elk is going to go far. But if you hit a big adrenaline-pumped animal like a moose or an elk in the back portion of the lungs they can take that hit like a waterdrop hitting sponge and they can go a long ways.

Consider it this way, many people think a 30-06, .308, class caliber to be ideal on a 150-250lb deer. By that thinking, using a 30-06 or similar caliber on a 400-1000lb moose is like shooting a deer with a .223 Rem. It works with ideal bullet placement, but if your shot is off by a little bit...you are going to doing a lot more work than you want to. Its something to keep in mind when you are picking your shots.

Your generalizations about the two calibers are essentially correct. A .270 is a little faster and flatter shooting. The 30-06 gives you larger bullets to choose from. In theory that makes the .270 a little better as a long range deer gun and makes the 30-06 a somewhat better gun for larger animals. In practice there isnt much difference.

For deer a .270 with a 130gr soft point spitzer (or boat tail) is ideal.

for Elk, Moose or Caribou i would pack a .338 Win mag. If the gun is properly stocked for you, the difference in recoil is not as big as you might think, and the .338 is just-plain-more-gun.

 

[6mmsl]

I will bet the 30-06 has killed more Moose,Elk and Caribou than have been lost.

Granted a poor shot with a larger caliber may provide a shock value that could/might compensate for poor placement-but it is still a poor shot.

I agree recoil can be relative to the shooter and when hunting I never remember the recoil anyways but at the range when you need to practice and get proficent and comfortable with your rifle it could be an issue for some and they may develop a flinch with larger calibers(06 is about the top end for alot of folks). I would propose that you you hunt with a rifle you are comfortable with and can shoot accurately at reasonable distances and field positions. That will be the rifle that you will cleanly take more Big Game with.

Bigger is not always better. That said I consider the 30-06 minimum for Elk and larger game.

If you can shoot a .338 well then take it but I would not say that 30-06 is not adequate for Elk or larger game.

I also agree that there is not much difference between a .270 and 30-06 ballistic wise but there is a difference and it favors the 06.

Everyone has a perference none that much better or worse than others -just different.

Good shooting-Steve

 

[wwb]

......but then I shot a moose the lungs at less than 40yds with an '06 that we followed for miles and never recovered.......

?????

My one and only moose, taken on an Alaska trip a few years ago, was shot at about 80 yards with a .30-06 200 grain soft nose through the boiler works, and was DRT (dead right there).

Any animal hit in the lungs, even with a non-expanding bullet, is not going to go for miles.... a few hundred yards at best, and usually a whole lot less. A lung shot animal is a dead animal.... ain't no question. If your moose went for "miles", it was hit low in the brisket, or high in the back... as the old cowboys used to say, "It's only a flesh wound."

 

[Trey Whitley]

Bottom line for me is that there isnt even spitting distance between the practical capabilities of an '06 vs a .270.

With a properly chosen bullet, I think there's a huge difference in the practical capabilities of the two. If you're only talking about 150-grain cup & core bullets in standard velocity .30-'06 loads then I agree with you, but once you get in the 180 to 220-grain range with premium bullets I think the real versatility of the .30-'06 comes through with flying colors. Plus some Federal and Hornady factory loads just about duplicate .300 Win Mag ballistics in the lighter bullet weights.

 

[coop2564]

Fed has a factory 30-06 load now using 110gr barnes TTSX at 3400 fps that really flattens the trajectory. Should be great for deer size animals down. I've had both and really like both but no doubt 06 is more versatile.

 

[Silent Sam]

I also agree the 30-06 is much more flexible. While I generally like Hornady products I have never seen their light magnum loads achieve advertised velocity. I never bothered to try Federal's high energy loads. Didn't seem worth the extra cost. Choose appropriate bullets that shoot well in your gun and normal velocity loads will get the job done.

 

[sargents1]

......but then I shot a moose the lungs at less than 40yds with an '06 that we followed for miles and never recovered.......

?????

My one and only moose, taken on an Alaska trip a few years ago, was shot at about 80 yards with a .30-06 200 grain soft nose through the boiler works, and was DRT (dead right there).

Any animal hit in the lungs, even with a non-expanding bullet, is not going to go for miles.... a few hundred yards at best, and usually a whole lot less. A lung shot animal is a dead animal.... ain't no question. If your moose went for "miles", it was hit low in the brisket, or high in the back... as the old cowboys used to say, "It's only a flesh wound."

WWB,
Yup, it surprised me quite a bit too. Partly its my fault, as is often the case with BS situations like this. I fired the first shot, and the moose slumped down a bit and moved behind some brush. So I walked closer to try to get a better angle to get another shot. In doing so I walked partly into my dad's line of sight and as a result he didnt want to shoot. the moose continued to walk away and so me, being young and inexperienced and extra-stupid, I followed it for a good ways out thru the cutting. Looking back at I cant really think of too many things dumber than chasing a Wounded Bull Moose thru the North Maine woods, but that is what I did. This got his blood up (adrenaline) and he took off like a freight train, never to be seen again.

As far as it being only a flesh wound...Maybe but I doubt it. We found a blood trail and we found bloody snot hanging off trees at about head high. This leads me think that he was hit in the lungs. I have no doubt that that moose expired shortly after we lost him but he went far enough that after hours of searching that afternoon and then several hours the next day we still had not found him. We did a lot of walking thinking "if I just go another 100yds I am going to find this moose... just over that next hill and he will be there laying in a heap..." and so on. As i said, we did a lot of looking for that moose.

I don't want people to take it that I dont think you can sucessfully hunt moose and other large critters with a 30-06, because you certainly can. My dad has leveled a moose before with a single shot out of a 308. Dropped him in his tracks, literally. I am just saying that based on my experiences, 30 caliber is a bit light for moose and I would prefer something bigger in diameter with heavy expanding bullets. Of course nothing replaces good shooting and experienced hunting. I say this for the same reason that I would prefer a .308 to a .223 for deer.

If I had not immediately followed that moose that i lost, it would have gone maybe a few hundred yards and then looked back and seen us Not following. At which point he would have stopped to catch his breath and while he was standing there he would have bled out. This is why patience is so important when hunting.

Anyway....enough of my mistakes and life lessons...

Trey made the point that with '06 loads in the 180-220gr end of the spectrum an '06 is significantly different than a .270. I would agree with that. Respectfully, I would point out that the most common/available factory loads for a 30-06 and .270 are 150gr and 130gr respectively. These two loads are going to perform, for most practical purposes, identically.


To put it in perspective I looked up three heavier loads from Winchester's website.
They list the following Power-Point loads:
.270 win 150gr, 30-06 180 gr, .338WIN 200gr

The specs for these loads were as follows:
2800fps/2705ft-lbs, 2700fps/2900ft-lbs and 2960fps/3890ft-lbs all at the muzzle respectively. Based on that I would say that the .270 and 30-06 are going to be pretty much the same and the .338win is a lot more (~1000ft-lbs more).

if you had your choice, which would you use to take down a 700lb+ animal?

 

[6mmsl]

sargents1- I only have lost one animal in my hunting and it was with a 30-06 and it was an Elk and a story very similar to yours but I am going to add to mine is that I made a bad shot.(oddly with Power points)

In all my experiences since then I always - always think back to that Elk and ask myself here we go again -going to kill a huge animal is this the correct shot to make for a clean kill. Never have I thought if I had a larger caliber (bigger gun) would it make the difference for me on how I answered that question.

Would a larger caliber make up for a poor angle,distance,visibility of kill area,running target etc. for me no it would not.

Since then I have been extra careful to answer the question correctly because I don't want to lose another animal and I have passed on shots that were marginal. Proudly, I can say I have not lost anymore animals, I know good for me.

Bigger is not always better I have seen and tracked plently of Elk for others that shot them with big guns and it did not matter. Good shots in the vitals equals a dead critter the majority of the time. Sure there will exceptions but they are just that exceptions not the rule.

Awswer to your question is simple for me-

.270(2800fps/2705ft-lbs)........17lbs recoil
.30-06(2700fps/2900ft-lbs)........20.3lbs recoil
.338(2960fps/3890ft-lbs).............32.8lbs recoil

I will pick the 30-06 and be confident with it.
Also, out pass 300 yards things start to even out between the 06' and .338
No offense to anyone, but I would not hunt Elk with Power Points-give me a premium bullet anytime to additionally weigh the odds in my favor.


So,respectfully I will stick with my 06' clearly I am a fan and rightly so.

Good shooting-Steve